[!@#$%!]

anyway while you find those studies please check this out, makes for a great read:

http://thedemocraticstrategist-round...om/?page_id=60

eta another from the same lot:

http://thedemocraticstrategist-round...m/?page_id=211

[ilduclo]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...porters-220158

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...upporters.html

neither poor nor uneducated, just assholes

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...porters-220158

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...upporters.html

neither poor nor uneducated, just assholes

the "5 myths" from politico clearly states that blue collar workers are the base of trump's supporters, "but he's also doing very well among college educated republicans."

well, sure, ALSO. but the base is the base, and isn't that what we're talking about here? the cake, not the icing.

the debunking of myths 2 and 3 and 5 actually supports what im saying-- it's not ultraconservatives but angry voters and it's voters who support unions and taxing the rich and they're sticking to their issues.

the real clear politics article is a year old but says that trump's supporters make less than the average republican and come from the less educated end of the spectrum.

so, hm, yes, nowhere does it say that trump voters are "assholes" and it actually points towards massive discontent from blue collar workers that will remain thus even if benito trump's candidacy implodes as it should.

hillary did better among blue collar workers than obama in 2008 and that should probably help bleed him of his base here (there are signs she already is).

but socioeconomic problems are socioeconomic problems regardless of the demagogues who exploit them. and as it shows in the links i provided, at least some democrats are thinking about these things.

midterm elections are proof that democrats can't provide a solid coalition with just minorities, single women, educated whites, and milennials. so yes, we need "the assholes," as you call them.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

hahah so last night i put on FoxNews for shits and giggles.. they spent 15 minutes pontificating about how immoral Hillary is and how unfit for office she is because of her lies...

then they brought on some no name GOP Congressman who proceded spend the next 15 minutes completely and openly lying about the Iran $.. i mean any middle school kid with a newspaper could have corrected all of this guys lies, half truths, and misinformation. hahahaa the irony was palpable!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

context man, context. the quoted person is a congresswoman fom connecticut talking about her constituents. she's not going to call them a bunch of fucktards.

the embezzler of your anecdote isn't a demographic sample. instead just look at trends. the workers who used to work in steel mills, in factories, in shipyards, the workers who built highways and bridges and laid the infrastructure that made the country run, and made wages who could support their families-- where are they now and what are they doing? walmart? mcdonalds? panda express?

trump is of course a fucking conman, but what he has tapped into is real

irony is dense here, the traditional party of hard working blue collar factory folks are the pro Union Democrats! i always find it hilarious how this constituency within the Republicans has more or less been voting against their own economic interests since Reagan!

its why i don't believe Trump or any Republican has ever actually tapped into the shifting demographics of the American economy. that is a pretense claimed by the constituents to look less toxic. reality is whether we're talking about Trump, Reagan, or even Pete Wilson we're talking about what Nixon tapped into. racism. bigotry. xenophobia. simple as that. these people have no legitimate grievances which the GOP ever addresses. its just post-modern jingoism.

[greenlight]

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

irony is dense here, the traditional party of hard working blue collar factory folks are the pro Union Democrats! i always find it hilarious how this constituency within the Republicans has more or less been voting against their own economic interests since Reagan!

its why i don't believe Trump or any Republican has ever actually tapped into the shifting demographics of the American economy. that is a pretense claimed by the constituents to look less toxic. reality is whether we're talking about Trump, Reagan, or even Pete Wilson we're talking about what Nixon tapped into. racism. bigotry. xenophobia. simple as that. these people have no legitimate grievances which the GOP ever addresses. its just post-modern jingoism.

I don't know, I think there's a lot more to it than "race" and such bullshits. I mean that is there of course, I'm not denying it, but it's just not the only thing.

There's this 60s (or early 70s?) movie, "Joe", that kinda epitomizes the working class revulsion and conflict vis a vis the 60s revolution. Check it out some time. It's illuminating at least as a document of its time (though it's fiction).

The thing is though, any group that feels under siege is going to lash out stupidly, and look for scapegoats, and do stupid shit, and get all xenophobic. Just look at the Brexit. Worker's unions have a history at least since the XIX century of embracing their immigrant working brothers during times of expansion and asking to send foreigners packing during times of contraction. So this is not new.

Anyway you might be curious about those papers I like re: democrat strategies to regain the working class (Ruy Teixeira et.al.). One of them mentions the limit of appeals to "race" etc. Which actually I agree with--I identify more with an economic class than with my presumed "ethnicity". And where is that in the Democratic Party? Bernie touched it a bit.

Long story and a tangent for a different thread but think of this as history in the making so I highly recommend looking under the hood of that site.

[LifeDistortion]

Yes, let's deal with current, present economic and employment woes by electing a relic from the 1980's who epitomizes crass wealth and materialism, someone you'd watch a profile of on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by LifeDistortion

Yes, let's deal with current, present economic and employment woes by electing a relic from the 1980's who epitomizes crass wealth and materialism, someone you'd watch a profile of on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

I don't think anyone here is saying that, are they? Wait-- I think Tesla was, kinda sorta. Curious about what he's thinking now.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

I don't know, I think there's a lot more to it than "race" and such bullshits. I mean that is there of course, I'm not denying it, but it's just not the only thing.

I don't think its ONLY racism so much as PREDOMINANTLY racism. Further I think that even if subconsciously, racism is an underlying factor to every political decision for Trumpites..

The thing is though, any group that feels under siege is going to lash out stupidly, and look for scapegoats, and do stupid shit, and get all xenophobic.

True but why are they under siege exactly and by whom? Hence racism

[quote
Anyway you might be curious about those papers I like re: democrat strategies to regain the working class (Ruy Teixeira et.al.). One of them mentions the limit of appeals to "race" etc. Which actually I agree with--I identify more with an economic class than with my presumed "ethnicity". And where is that in the Democratic Party? Bernie touched it a bit.
[/quote]

Sure but in the American experience socio-economics are fundamentally and integrally connected with race and ethnic identity.

Long story and a tangent for a different thread but think of this as history
in the making so I highly recommend looking under the hood of that site.

will do.

Like I said before and have been saying for the past few years, we are witnessing "the Silent Majority 2.0" which is to say racist backlash against uppity "minorities" who refuse to stay in their place and further the growing resent of white folks realizing they are losing their privilege, which is the same whether in 1968 as much as it feels apt for 2016

[!@#$%!]

Nice answer, so, a quick reply to that.

I guess ethnicity might be the strongest force in this country of immigrants, but I think it's used by the elites to divide and conquer the WORKING CLASS.

As long as black, brown, white, yellow and red people are bickering about where their goddamn ancestors came from, and who was here first, and why, and who is better, and bla bla bla, there is no chance that working people can present a united front and say THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.

Personally, maybe because I'm a weirdo, I identify very little with the "Latino" box where the paperwork wants to classify me. I mean yeah I came from Latin America so what. I have many other concerns besides my fucking genetics, which are full global mongrel anyway. Besides, the whole point of culture is that it can transcend genetics-- I can read Chinese poetry without being Chinese, listen to African music without being African, and enjoy Greek myths without having ever set food in Greece, and watch German fussball without thinking that I'm German.

So, yeah, I've had it up to my balls with the race business. Not that it's not a social force regardless of scientific basis, but holy fuck, there's more to life than being a fucking show dog of a certain breed.

Ha ha ha, I got carried away, damn, anyway, rant over.

But yes-- class should matter more than race when it comes to politics except the fucking humans aren't smart enough to realize this shit.

Okay rant really over.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

its not that i disagree with you about vlass divisions, its that we can't in any way separate class from race in America because our economy is so thoroughly racialized at every level.

indeed in all seriousness white peoplecare increasingly resentful because as the economic pie is split more equitably than in previous generations, their class status declines however why was their class above others previously? the racism of the American and indeed global economy.

so again, sure, Trump is tapping in on economic realities, but even these are product of a racist system.

[!@#$%!]

The way I see it is not so much about how the pie is split but rather that the pie is severely shrinking all around. The rich get richer and the middle class is the new proletariat. Where does labor go? Down (& out).

Oh, and to the "why under siege and by whom" question you asked before: technology and globalization. The $45/h + health benefits + pension assembly line job became a $10/h oil changer at JiffyLube. Goodbye workers paradise.

[ilduclo]

it's the richies, for sure. Time for some income "compression" in a downward direction.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

The way I see it is not so much about how the pie is split but rather that the pie is severely shrinking all around. The rich get richer and the middle class is the new proletariat. Where does labor go? Down (& out).

sure that is part of it, but the pie has still been split more equitably since the 1960s so that in general white people have less and not white people have more than they did but still overall no where near as much as white people.

Oh, and to the "why under siege and by whom" question you asked before: technology and globalization. The $45/h + health benefits + pension assembly line job became a $10/h oil changer at JiffyLube. Goodbye workers paradise.

that is part of it. look, i totally get what you are saying. but the reality is we still live in a racialized American economy where opportunity is predominantly defined by race, period.

bringing up the other geopolitical stuff is part of the equation no doubt, but racism remains the driving factor.

trust me, i am letting you in on some white people secrets that they will never say to your face or in your company

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

even the geopolitical economics are racism, the not white peoples of the world are being robbed by Wal-Martization. they are exploited. so racism, even if we are talking about globalization, is STILL a major factor. indeed, do you think that corporations would exploit poor white people the same way they exploit poor not white people all around the world? hardly

[greenlight]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

even the geopolitical economics are racism, the not white peoples of the world are being robbed by Wal-Martization. they are exploited. so racism, even if we are talking about globalization, is STILL a major factor. indeed, do you think that corporations would exploit poor white people the same way they exploit poor not white people all around the world? hardly

so can we say democrats are racists as well (i am not supporting rep.)?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by greenlight

so can we say democrats are racists as well (i am not supporting rep.)?

of course we can and should.

[ilduclo]

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...n-nationalists

ick

[The Soup Nazi]

Donald Trump Suggests Shooting Hillary Clinton, Her Supreme Court Picks, Or Both