[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MG1jennQU

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

When we ride... Whoop! Whoop!
It's like an air wave...Oh shit!
When we ride... Whoop! Whoop!
It's like an air wave...Oh shit!
When da rydas is ridden up on ya
Duk da fuk down!
When da rydas is ridden up on ya
Duk da fuk down!


When we ride... Whoop! Whoop!
It's like an air wave...Oh shit!
When we ride... Whoop! Whoop!
It's like an air wave...Oh shit!
When da rydas is ridden up on ya
Duk da fuk down!
When da rydas is ridden up on ya
Duk da fuk down!

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eugene Felikson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MG1jennQU

The only thing funnier than that video is the comment list below it...

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

I'm just going to assume you've figured out that the Psychopathic Rydas are a gangster rap satire w/ the guys from ICP, Twiztid, etc. ; and are therefore moreso laughing with them, than at them. They're so thug that they even steal most of their beats.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

I sympathize with suchfriend's plight, but at the same time if someone was shooting at me or my friends/family, I'd want the chance to shoot back. Guns aren't the problem; violence is.

.

I'd hope you would prefer simply to not have the violence, rather than to have the eye for an eye opportunity.. the reality is that guns ARE precisely the problem, because the instigate, provoke and exaggerate violence. Fist fights and arguments blow up way out of proportion with even the HINT of a gun..

I never wanted a gun to defend myself, I just wanted people with guns to stay out of my business

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

I think it's a very weak form of politics that can't propose to alter a culture. Looking to GB, there's a load of things that were engrained in our psyche that have been eroded. We don't actually drink the tea of the stereotype, that's an imperialist-era hangover. Pub culture until about ten years ago was smoking, fighting, pub games and largely woman-less; thanks to a series of Labour legislation changes around health and booze taxation, a pub's more likely to be a bistro type affair with free wi-fi and young mothers drinking shit 'Italian' coffee in the afternoons than it is somewhere for men to go and complain about their Missus.

Similarly, British football culture is very different now. Thanks to a more sophisticated policing of crowds, seated stadia and more punitive measures for football violence, the idea of going to a game for a fight with the other team is severely diminished. There are still remnants, but it's by no means what it was in the 60s and 70s; further, football crowds are no longer primarily populated by working class men.

I would entirely agree that altering gun culture in America isn't going to happen soon; I wouldn't agree that it's impossible. If we take my example of pubs, it is possible to remove fetishised objects like cigarettes from an 'engrained' culture; they'll still stick around in some form, but smoking levels and related health problems have been severely reduced thanks to the (EU-imposed) smoking ban.

I don't think it even requires any notion of changes being 'radical' - health care reform is finally moving in the States - it's not an ideal system, but it is a definite step in the right direction. It's taken a strong leader with a lot of popular support to force through those changes, and they're not as huge as I think the left would've liked, but things can change. So far as I can make out, in spite of a fairly large public and political resistance to health care reform, they have taken place and no-one has rioted.

Yes but again you're missing the mark in assuming that the US should have a STRONG government. It doesn't. It isn't France. It's not the UK either. This is a much bigger country, it's composed of 50 (that's 50) different states each with their own Constitution and laws and local governments that are different from each other. There are overriding federal laws but those are quite limited. Germany might be a closer comparison, or Spain with is autonomous regions-- and you know what happened when Franco tried to ban Euzkera or Catalonian, right?

Here we had a civil war 150 years ago on the issue of "states rights". Not slavery per se, but the power of the Federal government to dictate what states can or cannot do. It was a bloody fucking carnage and the feds won but the distrust of the Federal government remains high in a lot of places.

Besides, there is a HUGE libertarian streak in this country-- it's not necessarily that Ron Paul is going to get a lot of votes, but the ideas are spread much further than his radical fringe. The basic notion is that the government is evil and intrusive and that the best government is the smallest government. Reagan won 2 elections with that platform. Newt Gingrich took over Congress in the mid-90s on a similar platform-- to gut the Federal government to its minimum possible size. Clinton played chicken with him (shut down the government) and won-- but he was still hamstringed on many fronts.

The point is, while in other countries people expect a lot, if not all, from their government, the American government is indeed weak and people tend to put the responsibility on the individual more than on the collective. I don't necessarily agree with this, and I have campaigned for the "godless liberals" (yes, the Bible & the Gun go together like peanut butter and jam), but I know enough to know that the government can only take small steps and that the notion of banning guns in America is utterly laughable-- you might as well try to squeeze orange juice out of chunks of marble.

And then there's the Senate! It's like, imagine if the House of Lords had huge power to entangle and delay legislation forever if not kill it-- sure, Senators are elected, but that's another clusterfuck that's too long to discuss.

See here about the American form of government:
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/Am...ts/demrep.html
(I don't endorse that website but it shows well what I'm talking about).

Long story short: Americans like their government weak and small, and Obama is a Black Power Muslim Communist! (You won't believe the things people say here. I hear them every day).

OK, back to work...

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I'd hope you would prefer simply to not have the violence, rather than to have the eye for an eye opportunity.. the reality is that guns ARE precisely the problem, because the instigate, provoke and exaggerate violence. Fist fights and arguments blow up way out of proportion with even the HINT of a gun..

I never wanted a gun to defend myself, I just wanted people with guns to stay out of my business

Oh, of course. Everyone knows the best way to win a fight is to not get into one in the first place.

[knox]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Please reread my post. I was saying douchebags like him are the LAST people on Earth who should be allowed to KNOW of guns' EXISTANCE, let alone be able to see, touch, or use them. My comment regarding thinking of gun ownership as a privilege instead of a right being seen as un-American is an observation based on fact, not some opinion of mine. If you're not an American, I'm sorry, but you don't really have a clear grasp of the role of guns in our culture. Now, there are a lot of things I don't like about our culture: contemporary country music; karaoke bars (yes, I know it comes from Japan but you have to admit Americans can bring it to new lows); pickup trucks, SUVs, and various other low-mileage vehicles (except muscle cars-those rule); and the idea of referring to a sport that involves minimal use of the feet as "football". But I enjoy a good gunfight in the movies, and even though I know in reality gun battles are anything but thrilling to anyone but the sick minded, I don't support the idea of banning firearms entirely. You can say it's naive, misguided, psychotic, or whatever, but I can tell you that I do know someone who successfully defended his home against an intruder a few years ago.

Don't worry, I wasn't talking about you you.

But let's think of the cycle: why are criminals walking around heavily armed?

[ann ashtray]

The great many that are responsible shouldn't be made to suffer for the few that aren't (and most gun owners are very responsible).

In my mind, freedom will always win over safety. That's just me though.

I'll argue for a bit...I got some time to kill today and quite frankly I'm in a fantastic mood.

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

The great many that are responsible shouldn't be made to suffer for the few that aren't (and most gun owners are very responsible).

In my mind, freedom will always win over safety. That's just me though.

I'll argue for a bit...I got some time to kill today and quite frankly I'm in a fantastic mood.

Funny you should say this, because safety is defined as freedom from danger or hazards. So in essence you're saying total freedom will win over freedom from danger.

Do you see that as a good thing?

[knox]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Funny you should say this, because safety is defined as freedom from danger or hazards. So in essence you're saying total freedom will win over freedom from danger.

Do you see that as a good thing?

It's kind of pointless to ask, you'll see. I'll just make it short for you:

"My freedom is more important than your freedom"
"Freedom for the poor is their freedom to pay the consequences for being poor"
"Your freedom to live is not more important than my freedom to have something I don't need"

The last can be applied to the whole scheme of consumerim too.

Conclusion: freedom is for some.

[knox]

Oh, what you can do with the WORD 'freedom' these days is fantastic.


(this would make dr.benway proud)

[Glice]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

Yes but again you're missing the mark in assuming that the US should have a STRONG government. It doesn't.

Yeah, I do realise this. I don't want to sound like a reaming hippy, but I think it's sort of important to demand more from politics. Some demands will likely never be met (say, communism or my desire to have sex with Nigella Lawson) some are met in spite of a lack of public support (Britain's involvement in the Iraq war, Obama's health care reforms if you read the right-wing press) some are part of ongoing struggles (end of apartheid in SA, abolition of slavery in general)... I think the point that lots of people are saying 'it's the way it is' is really defeatist. Sure, America has a weak form of government (many years ago I read up loads on how it works, and it baffles me quite frankly) but it's hardly like America is completely incapable of making lasting and meaningful positive reforms.

[knox]

That'd only make sense if you didn't have a government. You do, it's there, you elect it, you pay for it, it uses your money and interferes in your life and tells you what to do. But you'd say you shouldn't demand anything from it? Is that the idea of liberalism? Sounds like they're free yeah.

[ann ashtray]

This is called twisting words around + making them mean what you want them to mean.

I'm one of those that doesn't mind walking down the street at two am, knowing that I MIGHT get mugged/shot/raped/beaten....I don't mind, because I know when I walk the streets at 2am, I'm taking a a risk. I'd rather that risk be allowed, then to not be. I enjoy walking around late at night after most have already turned in, and the streets are pretty and quiet. I enjoy this in the same way some might enjoy target practice....it's relaxing. + I don't think it's fair when people assume things about others they know nothing, absolutely nothing, about ( and that isn't directed at you Genetic...). People should have the right to do whatever they want, as long as it isn't hurting others....and most with guns ARE NOT hurting others. Again, there's always going to be a few bad apples...that's just part of the risk.

The majority should always win when it comes to these things.

An overly safe world ='s an overly boring world.

And again, there is NO SUCH THING as criminals without guns. It's not even worth fantasizing about. A world w/ out guns is the same thing as a world without drugs or sex...it's just a stupid concept..an idea...a dream coming from those that favor a government in control of absolutely everything.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Glice

Yeah, I do realise this. I don't want to sound like a reaming hippy, but I think it's sort of important to demand more from politics. Some demands will likely never be met (say, communism or my desire to have sex with Nigella Lawson) some are met in spite of a lack of public support (Britain's involvement in the Iraq war, Obama's health care reforms if you read the right-wing press) some are part of ongoing struggles (end of apartheid in SA, abolition of slavery in general)... I think the point that lots of people are saying 'it's the way it is' is really defeatist. Sure, America has a weak form of government (many years ago I read up loads on how it works, and it baffles me quite frankly) but it's hardly like America is completely incapable of making lasting and meaningful positive reforms.

but the people have to WANT TO make those reforms. you can't impose an unpopular law from above. "hey, i'm the king of england, and i tell you americans you can't own guns". well...

i don't think that people want to have gun reform legislation at this point. that is a matter of state by state. california, by the way, has one of the most stringent gun laws in the country, and look at the murder rate in los angeles.

actually, states with more permissive gun laws have a lower homicide rate. the argument is that criminals can always get guns if they want to and you're only restricting law-abiding civilians with the laws. i don't think this is such a simple argument, but that's how it goes.

by the way, health care was overdue-- it's been attempted for 100 years! theodore roosevelt first proposed it! and the majority of people filing for bankruptcy do so because of medical bills. so while there was tremendous opposition there was also overwhelming popular support for health care reform. the medical system has been broken forever and people were just fucking fed up with it.

it's just not the same case with guns. americans at large don't believe that they have a gun problem. some people do, but i don't think it's the majority of the country. if anything, there is a movement to expand "gun rights" at the moment. d.c. just had its gun ban lifted in court and there are lawsuits in other cities that ban guns-- like chicago. see: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-gun-mindset-1

the electoral climate is not there to amend the constitution or to fuck with the regulation provided by each state. it's not a monolithic government. while from the outside this might look terrifying i don't think this is a priority for most people in this country. really. what people want is to keep guns away from criminals, but not to curtail the rights of civilians to own guns. it's a different country and it wants different things from yours.

[knox]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

.

An overly safe world ='s an overly boring world.

A world w/ out guns is the same thing as a world without drugs or sex...it's just a stupid concept..an idea...a dream coming from those that favor a government in control of absolutely everything.

It sounds REALLY fucked up in combination with your avatar.
I don't know if I should laugh?

[knox]

[quote=!@#$%!] if anything, there is a movement to expand "gun rights" at the moment. d.c. just had its gun ban lifted in court and there are lawsuits in other cities that ban guns-- like chicago. see: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-gun-mindset-1
.[/quote

somebody is paying for that.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Oh, of course. Everyone knows the best way to win a fight is to not get into one in the first place.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GeneticKiss again.

[!@#$%!]

The Gun Culture of the American West

"Full embrace of firearms may be a scary thought in Washington, but not out West."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=artslot

"The full embrace of guns is fervent in Montana, where nearly two-thirds of all households have firearms."


Gun-toting soccer moms a scary thought in D.C. area, but not out west

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...081402547.html


Md. crime victim sues over denial to renew permit to carry concealed handgun

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=artslot

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