[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You shouldn't, this was an apt discussion about the evolution of sport internationally not a compare and contrast exercise. This is ENTIRELY A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE EVOLUTION AND EXPLANATION OF FUTBOL, so maybe you'd like to read it again, I'm very interested in your thoughts here (for real not being facetious)

A major reason the US is NOT competitive at futbol is simply because our best athletes play in the NBA, NFL, or MLB. Our NCAA college system is the equivalent of the minor leagues that develop futbol talent abroad so successfully. Indeed, our NCAA has futbol programs BUT our athletes simply don't devote themselves to it, they move on to more lucrative and promising careers in American professional sports.

In South America or Europe players become footballers because THAT is their most promising option and career path. HOWEVER, this is increasingly changing as in Europe their basketball leagues become more competitive and pay better (indeed several washed up American basketball players now go there to make easy money) than they used too.. Meanwhile this is allowing for Spaniards, Argentinians, and Frenchmen to become a powerful force in the NBA and in international basketball.

Same thing with MLB, American baseball is essentially only alive because of the infusion of Asian and Central American players who devote themselves to baseball in their own countries aspiring to play in the US..

SO, if our American weakness in futbol has been that our athletes just don't want it, yet now American sports are increasingly being taken over by international and foreign born players, perhaps this is reflecting a cultural shift internationally?

IN OTHER WORDS, IF ARGENTINA OR SPAIN HAVE BEEN FUTBOL POWERHOUSES BECAUSE FUTBOL IS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN PERHAPS THIS WILL CHANGE THEIR FUTBOL DYNAMICS AS BASKETBALL AND BASEBALL BECOME LEGITIMATE PROFESSIONAL ALTERNATIVES?

Perhaps in Argentina, France, or Spain youngsters will no longer dream of being Messi but of being Manu?? If so, will this in the long arc potentially weaken these nations dominance of futbol talent?? Will this then give USA a chance to inch our way in there?

THAT was my point, and I dare say its valid

[!@#$%!]

the problem when you present a different sport every time as a metaphor for your ideas is that rather than discussing the merit of your idea we end up lost wondering if/how your metaphor is applicable. too much is lost in translation to even try. i've developed a flinch. one never arrives to your actual idea, or one is taken completely away from it by the alien parable. the reason parables worked for your god's son was because they were simple and evident.

anyway, re: the stats --- one thing i noticed (with pain) on the usa-belgium stats was that the most successful pass of the USA game was from dempsey to bradley-- in other words, backwards. the most successful pass for Belgium was from verthongen to de bruyne (forward). :_(

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone...matches/731822

also, we had more possession and passes… just not in the attacking 3rd.

and they had 39 shots to goal to our 17.

39!!! insane.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone...wrapper-anchor

but at least we played a cleaner game :/

[!@#$%!]

ps-
ginobili height: 6'5" (1.96m)
messi height: 5'7" (1.69m)

 

CASE CLOSED

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

======

DEMONIO:

can you remind us who is who in the SYG league?

who is that Mike Obiku with his astronomical score? is it pokkeherrie? And is Bertrand the Gerbilfeet you've been battling for second? I am confused now. and Vexlecize? (Austrian flag?) Kindly help. the other names i recognize!

I was actually gonna ask people about that. I'm assuming Mike Obiku is Pokkeherrie and Gerbilfeet is Bertrand. Some of the others obviously speak for themselves but not sure about the rest. Either way, someone needs to take a urine sample from that Obiku fella. I'm suspecting steroids.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I was actually gonna ask people about that. I'm assuming Mike Obiku is Pokkeherrie and Gerbilfeet is Bertrand. Some of the others obviously speak for themselves but not sure about the rest. Either way, someone needs to take a urine sample from that Obiku fella. I'm suspecting steroids.

he's probably won a couple of autographed brazucas already.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Gulasch Noir

vamonos, estados unidos
!

zat you, vexlecize?

kanamori happy hasn't posted since 2009 so im gonna guess kanamori is someone else-- i'm having a hard time remembering who is belgian here.

BELGIANS-- A SHOW OF HANDS PLEASE?

***EDIT

Originally Posted by Beautiful Plateau

Oh my God. In the dying seconds. Gutted.

***
oh, it's you! and you were kanamori happy in a previous incarnation! ah, mystery solved!
----

ps the last was my best round in the game, rank-wise, even though hummels didn't show up and i pussed out and benched mbolhi.

LAST ROUND
Points 102
Rank 112936

done like this:

ENYEAMA 6
MANOLAS 5 HALLICHE 5 GONZALEZ 9 VAN BUYTEN 12
RODRIGUEZ © 28(14) TEJEDA 5 CUADRADO 9 MASCHERANO 11
NEYMAR 5 MUELLER 7

benched:
MBOLHI 14 (aghhhh!!!) KARNEZIS 3
HUMMELS 0 MEDJANI 0 MARQUEZ 3
BENTALEB 0 MANIATIS 3 HERRERA 4 IRANIAN GHOST 0
SLIMANI 2 MUSA 4 BENZEMA 4

because of various mishaps during the group stage (buffon not playing, italy losing, scorers not scoring, me forgetting to add players, and generally betting wrong) i'm currently ranked much lower, like this:

OVERALL
Points 339
Rank 209930

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

one more time very simplified so you can understand.

My point earlier was that interestingly in futbol nations like Argentina, Spain, or France, increasingly American sports like basketball are developing and competing with futbol. In Central and South America professional baseball is growing. Can this possibly negatively affect their futbol development culture, as young athletes look into other sports when previously would have went into futbol?

Also, as international athletes increasingly fill competitive slots in American professional sports, would this not possibly increase the motivation for Americans to take professional futbol a bit more seriously as a career alternative?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

one more time very simplified so you can understand.

My point earlier was that interestingly in futbol nations like Argentina, Spain, or France, increasingly American sports like basketball are developing and competing with futbol. In Central and South America professional baseball is growing. Can this possibly negatively affect their futbol development culture, as young athletes look into other sports when previously would have went into futbol?

Maybe but for too many of them it simply wouldn't be an option

 

 

 

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You'd be surprised.. all the tight ends in the NFL played basketball in college, some never even played football until the NFL!! Initially they said "these guys are too soft to take a tackle," and, "these guys are too tall."

Turns out they've become some of the most effective players in the NFL and have revolutionized their positions.

Keep in mind that Hakeem Olajuwon was one of the best NBA players ever, was 7 feet tall, and had the best footwork in the NBA because of his experience as a goal keeper playing futbol in Nigeria. HOF NBA point guard Steve Nash played soccer in college and seriously considered playing pro until he fell in love with basketball entirely by coincidence.

Several players in FIFA are over 6'4 including on England and Belgium, even a few 6'7" dudes..

You're right that its not working now, but if across a long enough arc and player development in one generation an entire sport can change.


So just saying that basketball players or American football players would not have the athletic skill set to play futbol is I think speaking too soon. While obviously 5'7" dudes aren't going to dominate basketball, baseball is increasingly popular internationally, including in Central America, and anybody can hit and catch a baseball with enough practice, focus, and ambition.

Listen, I'm not trying to say that the NBA is magically going to replace futbol internationally, I just think its very interesting that nations that used to be exclusively futbol nations are getting that much better at high level American sports like basketball, American football, and baseball. Further, it is getting clear that Americans are getting better at futbol, so even a marginal influence could yield sizable dividends all things considering.

Indeed futbol wouldn't be replaced, but I think that its interesting that it may suffer a bit of decline as it has to compete both for players and particularly audiences in countries where it previously had generations of ZERO competition.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

There was a time in America that baseball was king and basketball was played at the YMCA.. Now?

I'm just saying that perhaps futbol internationally might lose a small bit of its Microsoft level dominance of sports market and talent pool and this may cause a small decline in quality or play.

[!@#$%!]

maybe if messi grows wheels he can be a bicycle

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

[demonrail666]

Basketball's definitely growing but so is football. Players are earning more money than ever, viewing figures are through the roof. I understand your point and you may turn out to be right but I think you're basing it on an idea of basketball expanding while football stands still. Basketball may have become bigger in places like Spain, Greece, Italy and bits of latin America but still for the most part still a way behind football in those places, equally look at how football's become the number one sport across most of Africa in the past 20 years and it's surely only a matter of time before China finally succumbs.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Thank you for the serious response. I don't think that futbol is in decline so much as may have a bit more competition in the nearer future.

I don't think that basketball will take over futbol, I just mentioned basketball in the context of countries like Spain, France and Argentina who have thriving basketball. Turkey may actually get better at basketball than futbol soon enough!!

Like I said, in Central America baseball is increasing exponentially and those have traditionally been futbol countries too..

Futbol will obviously be king, but if even a small margin of its dominance is diminished by an a smaller market share of both audience and talent pool, I think that alone is an interesting development and over the long enough arc could affect futbol.

If you told me in 1992 that Argentina would win an Olympic Gold medal in basketball, or that some of the best NBA players in the world would come from France or Slovenia I would have literally laughed at you! Now? Its a reality. If you told me in 1995 that all the best young talent for the MLB in US would be from Central America and the Caribbean that would have been funny too! Now? Baseball is almost more so a "Latin American" sport than it is "good ol American!"

So considering that if I said that in 20 years the best footballers in the world might be Americans, yeah, its funny now, but funnier shit in sports has clearly happened!

[Bertrand]

Thanks for the links - match-fixing one, the one on Messi (though I'll have to read it more thoroughly) and for Statzone (ditto).

France, basketball and the NBA.
When I was working at the INSEP, where Amélie Mauresmo (tennis), Teddy Riner (judo) and Tony Parker (bb) studied and practiced with their coaches when they were teenagers, some US scouts would call from time to time to see if they could offer a scholarship.
TP's success lead to more French players going to the US. He wasn't the first to go there, but he's the best known over here; and I don't particularly like indoors sports because of the acoustic of the places, the reverb, etc. Plus they seem to feel the need to play music at a high volume everytime a coach needs to talk tactics to his team. I don't follow all this then. Plus NBA games take place while I'm in bed.
Fo... Soccer has been on the decline in France, youngsters regarding it with disdain after the South African fiasco. It might start again. Who knows? Lots of kids tried their luck at tennis after Yannick Noah's win at Roland Garros in 1983 (Joakim's father, Yannick is the son of Zacharie, a footballer who won a French cup with Sedan); as Noah's successors fail, there hasn't been a proper renewal among the middle class kids. Upper classes are something else.

Fantasy League:
Last 16 score:
Bravo (10) / Gamboa (5), Manolas (5), Mertesacker (12) / Bedoya (7), Cuadrado (9), Valbuena (10), Di Maria (10), Rodricaptainguez (28) / Martinez (7), Muller (7)
I had Higuain on the bench and he brought in 15 points! You should all get him.
Mike Obiku was a professional football player now involved with Feyenoord. Pokkeherrie uses that name for the team the way he's using my credit card number. And I won't reveal what he uses it for, his mom would be ashamed.
I am gerbilfeet. Gerbilfeet never was any football player, nor was he a physio. Thus the 82 point gap behind the treacherous Dutchman. Yet the handicap of being a rodent won't be an obstacle in toppling the demon for second.

[!@#$%!]

^^ no way im getting back higuaín ha ha ha. i had him all during the group and he was a shit. or maybe i just cursed him and now that i don't have him he's free to rack up points.

--

anyway. i'm still obsessing about the USA games and after i didn't see a writeup in zonal marking i found 2 michael cox articles elsewhere this morning:

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/...eating-belgium

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/tactics-an...-a-must-for-us

i feel slightly vindicated as they confirm my screaming reactions during the games, but also, those articles made me see the original problem, which i had overlooked or pushed aside-- putting up dempsey as a pure striker, which doesn't suit him, and then sending up bradley to help him which doesn't suit him either.

i think for all of his messiah image (not cultivated by himself, but rather projected onto him by people like me who were desperate for a top-level coach) klinsmann has been stubborn in his errors. neither clint nor bradley worked where he put them, and he kept putting them there. big mistake. he brought subs to brazil but didn't trust them until it was too late. oh well! copa américa centenario is only 2 years away and he can keep fucking with the lineup until then.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I agree that Klinsmann was stubborn about his errors in the World Cup, indeed, there was were some bad coaching errors and its unanimous conclusion among pundits that he should have brought in fresh subs earlier BUT over the past 3 years indeed Jurgen has done a fantastic job with USA futbol.. That was a bad game, and it happens, but don't think its evidence of any kind of systemic or long term problem, just what it was, a bad game.

I totally didn't like what Clint was asked to do, it really decimated our attack. BUT I think Klinsmann was trying to send a message, it seems that part of his system is that players need to be more flexible about their positions. So what the team can learn from this is to take "next man up" a lot more serious.

He wasn't prepared for Jozy going out and the way he moved players around out of position only seemed to make things worse. If anything, I trust what he has done to believe he more than any of us knows exactly what he did wrong and how to fix it in the future.

[!@#$%!]

no no, i didn't mean he sucks, he has been fantastic for the sport all-around, but i think it could have been a better campaign had he been slightly less fearful in brazil. little costa rica took no prisoners and look at them (they're still gonna get killed though ha ha).

it's still nil-nil, lads!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I do disagree with Cox's assessment that US can compete (offensively) with the better sides in the world.. He is right about a pattern, but the pattern I saw was that US attack came to life in the waning minutes of the match where US stamina and conditioning proved a significant advantage so it looks like we really were able to attack weakened defenses. Belgium was clearly tired when the US took over towards the end. When USA sprang to life at the end of the Ghana game the Africans were also starting to look gassed. We ALMOST out gassed Portugal until it was they who took advantage of USA exhaustion, and in particular notice that was a game where USA was balanced and 50-50.. Possibly THAT is interestingly what may have hurt us, playing a more balanced game sapped up energy a bit earlier that USA needed defensively down the stretch..

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

no no, i didn't mean he sucks, he has been fantastic for the sport all-around, but i think it could have been a better campaign had he been slightly less fearful in brazil. little costa rica took no prisoners and look at them (they're still gonna get killed though ha ha).

it's still nil-nil, lads!

Didn't think you said he sucked at all, just that in that game he made some significant, indeed costly errors which I agree with and was thinking the same thing during the match. Where were the patented "Jurgen magical" subs coming in to spark our attack in the final third? Why did we stubbornly use those formations with so many key players out of position when it clearly was just not working and left us with a vanilla offense?

Honestly, I dare say that Jurgen did those things on purpose, I almost feel like he had an agenda of testing players out of position, to see if they could get the hint that they need to get better as more rounded players. I can imagine in practice and watching film he is dissecting to the players where they went wrong as a team in different formations and trying to coach that they need to improve being a more positionless kind of roster.