[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Sev, don't sleep on Saba. His album is crazy good. Closest thing to Kendrick right now.

Interesting. I will check out.

Didn’t he have a feature on Chance’s “Angels?”

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Whatever one thinks of Eminem, I recall finding the line

"All my life I was very deprived
I ain't had a woman in years, and my palms are too hairy to hide "

to be revolutionary. Indeed, I can't think of one other example of a rapper discussing a LACK of getting laid. Anyone?

Actually, I feel like I just heard someone make the same argument — or a similar one — about someone else. Can’t remember who, but it was recent enough for this to be weird.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Interesting. I will check out.

Didn’t he have a feature on Chance’s “Angels?”

He sang the hook. But he's surprisingly a damn good spitter as well.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

He sang the hook. But he's surprisingly a damn good spitter as well.

That’s like my favorite song on “Coloring Book.” I will check it out.

[louder]

Eminem dropped a surprise album yesterday and I was curious enough to listen to it.

No surprises here, it wasn't good, but I respect the effort.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Eminem dropped a surprise album yesterday and I was curious enough to listen to it.

No surprises here, it wasn't good, but I respect the effort.

Nah, it’s really not good.
Twitter and stuff is full of probably 40-something white people who never left their rural Nebraska home towns saying, “The King is back!”

But nah. Its only virtue is that it’s not as patently, obscenely terrible as his last several albums. But it’s not good.

I don’t think he gets it. Rap is not the new rock... that’s not what’s happened. *Hip-hop* is the new *pop.* That’s what’s happened. And a lot of that has to do with the emphasis being less on REALLYFASTBARS—SPUTTERYJILTEDBARSBARS and more on tapping into moods through keen production and the like.

Em comes from an era when people didn’t listen to hip-hop to feel things. They listened to it to hear wordplay, and size up the chops of different players. Now people listen to hip-hop when they’re having relationship trouble, or when they’re having identity crises, or thinking suicidal thoughts. They listen to hip-hop to feel really happy (Chance) or to hear weird and mind-fucking previously undreamt of genre mashups (JPEGMafia, Death Grips) or when they’re “in their feelings” (Drake).

Very few rappers are bar-focused. Kendrick is chief among them, but even he (especially he, to be honest) approaches hip-hop more like a massive canvas on which to paint a picture or set a scene or tell a story, using ideas and sonic atmospherics instead of “just words.”

Eminem still sucks. This isn’t his 4:44. He’s always going to have a fan base among a certain kind of fan, but he’s not relevant.

His songs that make fun of “mumble rap” actually make me want to listen to mumble rap because it’s morw interesting. At least Future has some vibe and mood in his songs.

Eminem. Nope.

[evollove]

I'm not defending Eminem in general, nor the new one which I haven't heard and likely won't listen to,

but are you saying he sucks because he's not following current trends?

If he had made something that sounds like some piece of shit trappy soundcloud rap, you would've ranked his album higher?

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

I'm not defending Eminem in general, nor the new one which I haven't heard and likely won't listen to,

but are you saying he sucks because he's not following current trends?

If he had made something that sounds like some piece of shit trappy soundcloud rap, you would've ranked his album higher?

No, you misunderstand me.
He tried to get a less dated sound this time. He recruited some more modern artists to help him out. He has Kendrick, Mike Will Made, even BON IVER has a feature — one apparently that Justin Vernon is not nuts about — so obviously he’s trying to do things differently, even if he’s saying that he doesn’t need to.

What I’m saying is that there’s a fundamental flaw in his logic and approach here. He’s mad because people say he’s tired and washed up, so what does he do to prove them wrong? Grabs a couple of current producers and then just repeats the same mistake he always makes of rapping ridiculously fast and thinking that somehow makes the music good.... OH, and let’s not forget homophobic slurs and murder jokes and skits and all the other things that have been on literally every Eminem album..

I’m saying his time is long over, no matter what he tries. No, I would not think better of the album if it sounded like Migos or something, bevause that’s not he answer either. Jay Z just had his biggest fail in years this year because he tried to sound like Migos. But if Em wanted to get another shot he’d have to do more than just add some Zaytoven beats and rap stupid fast, because that is not what anyone wants to hear. People still get by on rap chops alone, but speedrapping is just boring. He sounds like he’s trying so constipated-hard to prove a point about how great he was 20 years ago; when in reality — he *didn’t* rap like that 29 years ago. He took his time. It was kind of one of his stylistic hallmarks for a while at the start. “My Name is” might be the most casually rapped song of the late-‘90s.

But nah, the music is fucked no matter how he chooses to lack creativity — whether it’s by doing the same thing for the thousandth time (as he’s done here), or by doing what everyone else is doing right now (as you suggested), the music would suck and Eminem is dead... a seriously embarrassing pockmark on hip-hop music.

[Severian]

The answer for Em, if there is one, is to *actually* pull a 4:44, and make an album that doesn’t have any ambitions of greatness and simply aims to be the best it can be and the most pure version of the artist.

Imagine Eminem sitting down with (ugh) Dre ... and just spitting some very human, autobiographical bars at a leisurely pace over some classy beats. Dre sampling Jackson 5, and Em talking about what he’s learned over the years. Not desperately thumping his chest and screaming “IMATTERIMATTERIMATTERSTANSTANSTAN!”

To me, that’s what a course correction would look like. And then, *never releasing an album again* and only turning up on the occasional guest verse. Essentially retiring before he erases any and all impact his music ever had.

At this point, he’s been TERRIBLE for like FIVE TIMES as long as he was ever even remotely interesting. When was he interesting? 1999-2003 or thereabouts. Like, Slim Shady LP is probably a classic for hip-hop no matter how you slice it, Marshal Mathers LP is the “Vs.” of rap records, even though it’s always been a shit ass album. The Eminem Show has some catchy singles, and that album he did with D12 felt kind of dangerous and exciting at the time. 8 Mile might be the Purple Rain of rap, but the soundtrack is *not the Purple Rain of anything* so that’s where I’m cutting t off.

So that’s like 3.5 or so years of goodness? That was like 16 years ago.

Dude needs to just chill, take his money, and make sure his daughter doesn’t end up in a trailer park.

[evollove]

Without taking anything away from what you wrote--most of which I'd agree with--I finally got around to listening to "Not Alike."

"The only thing we have in common is I'm a dick and you suck"

is pretty genius.

I'll take that one line over every single thing Lil Xan ever spat.

But that's just because I care more about the art form than the culture, so perhaps Lil Xan is more "interesting" at the moment, but he's clearly, obviously, no-argument-about-it less talented than Em.

Indeed, that's my biggest problem with Eminem. He's a brilliant writer and an exceptionally skilled rapper, but his taste in beats sucks and he desperately needs some fresh subject matter. He's rarely found a good use for his formidable talent, and that's what I find so frustrating about him.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Without taking anything away from what you wrote--most of which I'd agree with--I finally got around to listening to "Not Alike."

"The only thing we have in common is I'm a dick and you suck"

is pretty genius.

I'll take that one line over every single thing Lil Xan ever spat.

But that's just because I care more about the art form than the culture, so perhaps Lil Xan is more "interesting" at the moment, but he's clearly, obviously, no-argument-about-it less talented than Em.

Indeed, that's my biggest problem with Eminem. He's a brilliant writer and an exceptionally skilled rapper, but his taste in beats sucks and he desperately needs some fresh subject matter. He's rarely found a good use for his formidable talent, and that's what I find so frustrating about him.

That’s not even a logical pun. That’s not a thing they have in common. If he can’t think of a way to connect “dick” with “suck” in a way that actually brings the two conceptually together, he’s not that clever.

That’s a missed opportunity right there. That’s what that is

[Severian]

He raps like a conspiated Nazi.

He isn’t as skilled as I think people believe. He was on 60 Minutes talking about how it pisses him off when people say no word rhymes with orange. (Enter a clip of him rhyming “four-inch heel” with “orange bill.”) Then he rattles off a few more words combinations that don’t actually prove that no word rhymes with orange. They just prove that if you pronounce things a certain way, you can act bitchy about people who say no words rhyme with orange.

Oh, then he talks about how you have to think of the “science” of language. Which is of course linguistics. And nothing he’s saying is or has anything to do with science. He’s taking about meter and phrasing.

Yeah, he sounded impressive in 1999. Definitely. Now it’s 2018 though, and nothing he’s said has made me look twice in almost 15 years.

I don’t know Lil Xan, but he’s probably a worse rapper and a more interesting person than Eminem, who for all his dexterity is one of the most limited artists in rap.

[evollove]

When a man and a woman love each other, sometimes the woman will suck the man's dick. Apparently it brings the man pleasure.

But "dick" can also mean "jerk."
And "suck" can mean "performs poorly"

Ok, I'm just messin'. I thought it worked, but whatever.

What I REALLY want to know is ultimately, what do you have against Em?

The homophobia? The misogyny? The fact that he blew up, but more deserving (and black) rappers were passed over? (All valid criticisms, btw)

You've made some points, but I think there's something else going on.

[evollove]

Wait! Lemme take a swing.

Long time ago, you used to sing his praises. Now you're embarrassed about it, so you're overcompensating with the hate.

Am I close?

Look, I'm not impressed with his chopper rapping. But he switches up flows effortlessly, comes up with clever puns, has intricate rhyme patterns, and does all the things a stellar rapper can (should?) do. But most of the time, he doesn't know what to do with these skills.

He's great, but not dope. It's the weirdest thing.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

When a man and a woman love each other, sometimes the woman will suck the man's dick. Apparently it brings the man pleasure.

But "dick" can also mean "jerk."
And "suck" can mean "performs poorly"

Ok, I'm just messin'. I thought it worked, but whatever.

What I REALLY want to know is ultimately, what do you have against Em?

The homophobia? The misogyny? The fact that he blew up, but more deserving (and black) rappers were passed over? (All valid criticisms, btw)

You've made some points, but I think there's something else going on.

Yes, dicks get sucked, but do “dicks” of either kind and “sucking” of either kind actually have anything in common? One’s a noun, ones a verb, one’s a person or appendage, the other is an act or attribute. Not as clever as it sounds.

What I really have against Eminem is everything you said, and that I know a lot of hillbilly motherfuckers who think he’s the king of rap and always will be because they’re AC/DC fans and they’re also racists. He “drew a line” in the sand about politics about 20 years too late, but MOST OF ALL, he is *just so goddamn motherfucking boring.*

He was truly the Elvis of rap. Now rap’s has a Beatles and maybe even a Sex Pistols and people still sit and spin on Em’s dick for doing what he’s always done, only poorly and sadly.

He is uninteresting to the core.

Before Kendrick, it was easier to defend him because no rapper had really blown up who could spit like that. But in a post-Kendrick world, with all the great and terrible shit that’s come from hip-hop... what the hell does anyone need more blue suede shoes for?

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Wait! Lemme take a swing.

Long time ago, you used to sing his praises. Now you're embarrassed about it, so you're overcompensating with the hate.

Am I close?

Look, I'm not impressed with his chopper rapping. But he switches up flows effortlessly, comes up with clever puns, has intricate rhyme patterns, and does all the things a stellar rapper can (should?) do. But most of the time, he doesn't know what to do with these skills.

He's great, but not dope. It's the weirdest thing.

No, that’s actually not it. I was already into Wu-Tang and Tribe and Jay-Z and stuff when Em blew up. At first, I hated him. Then I bought Slim Shady on a whim or compulsion... I don’t know which. Ended up being entertained by it for a summer.

Never liked the Marshal Mather LP. Talked mad shit about that shit as soon as it dropped. Kinda liked Eminem show, but I NEVER sang Em’s praises. He’s just talented, undeniably, and I enjoyed like 10% of his work.

Now he’s just fucking sad. He’s sad.
“The King is Back,” people say. But no... no no no.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by Severian

He’s just talented, undeniably, and I enjoyed like 10% of his work.

There we go. Yup

[Rob Instigator]

I have been loving about 80% of ASTROWORLD so far. The slow songs are not my jam. BUT I FUCKING LOVE StarGazing, Sicko Mode, HOustonfornication, Can't Say...


fucking awesome. Way to go La Flame.


I have also been listening to Bun B's new one, which is dope too!! old-school flava and hard beats.


BTW, my wife and I went to Johnny Dang's jewelry shop last Wednesday for a listening party for Bun B's new record. fucking awesome time. Great people, cheap drinks, and free loaner bluetooth headphones to blast the new record. Got to say hi to Bun, and take a pic with TV Johnny himself.


Lots of fucking fun. I missed when Slim Thug came by tho....

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

There we go. Yup

...

What? The only Em song I have played on purpose to a joyful reaction in the past many years has been “Role Model” (that beat knocks).

Never sang the dude’s praises. No point in denying it if I had

[evollove]

Miscommunication.

I meant "Yup. You nailed it. Agree 100%. You're right. Good call. Same. This. etc"