[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by jonathan

I really dislike this idea that the Stooges and the Velvet Underground (or just about any bands before the Ramones) are "punk". Punk is a label, given to punks by punks. There is no a priori "punk" or "punkness". If you're the Velvet Underground, you probably thought of yourself as art rock. If you're the Stooges then you're a coked out kick-out-the-jams-motherfucker rock and roll band. That being said, you have to leave these bands out if you're talking about U.S. vs U.K. punk.

For me, I'd have to say U.S. punk, particularly early 80s bands, both east and west coast (Void, Black Flag, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Rites of Spring, etc.). That isn't to say that the U.K. does have their moments: Rudimentary Peni and early Napalm Death. And I'm not the biggest Discharge fan, but saying that Discharge is shit is basically saying that punk is shit. Their influence is unmatched by just about any punk band you can name. Without Discharge, what can be called "punk" today would not exist, even emo.

Agreed about The Stooges and VU. Influences on punk for sure. But I can't listen to them as punk bands because they aren't, after all. They're rock bands which hardy adhered to the DIY ethic, for a start.

[keep poppin pimples]

us is better by far

however the slits are totally better than the stooges

[Decayed Rhapsody]

This has nothing to do with anything, but I just discovered that Scritti Politti didn't suck in the very beginning of their career: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYu_nDFkYFY

[The Watcher]

Heresy
Ripcord
Concrete Sox
Doom
Amebix
ENT
Napalm Death
Electo Hippies
Discharge
Rudimentary Peni

I mean the US had Poison Idea...... but come on.........

[jonathan]

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Heresy
Ripcord
Concrete Sox
Doom
Amebix
ENT
Napalm Death
Electo Hippies
Discharge
Rudimentary Peni

I mean the US had Poison Idea...... but come on.........

Never much into Poison Idea but the US has plenty of ripping fucking bands of that caliber. Peni, Napalm Death, Electro Hippies, ENT, Heresy... all sick. For sure, no question. I just can't separate my experience with hardcore from the early American DC and LA scenes. I can definitely do without all of the NY macho bullshit.

But yeah, since we're getting into this realm...
MAN IS THE BASTARD.

[jonathan]

How could I forget about Siege!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://youtu.be/XRonZbYL3Yk

[jonathan]

MAN SHUT UP WHAT THE HELL YOU EVEN SAYIN'!

also, Infest.

[loubarret]

Originally Posted by jonathan

Never much into Poison Idea but the US has plenty of ripping fucking bands of that caliber. Peni, Napalm Death, Electro Hippies, ENT, Heresy... all sick. For sure, no question. I just can't separate my experience with hardcore from the early American DC and LA scenes. I can definitely do without all of the NY macho bullshit.

But yeah, since we're getting into this realm...
MAN IS THE BASTARD.

Nampalm death is britsh as are the electro hippies as are heresy

[jonathan]

as are Rudimentary Peni and Extreme Noise Terror.

Sorry, my phrasing was weird.

[Genteel Death]

Some of those bands aren't punk either. Anyway, good call on Rudimentary Peni. Big fan here.

[pbradley]

Here in the expat community, I met a British punk rocker. Beside the obvious reservations I have with dealing anyone who still touts "classic" punk rock but I got into a conversation with him about the difference between UK and US punk bands.

My thesis was, basically, that US punk bands tend more to the introspective while UK bands were far more politically-dedicated.

We never got far into a discussion so I don't know if I was talking out of my ass or not.

[scratchscrape]

Americans are the root of all evil.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

WRONG!

Evil is the root of all Americans.

Evil from all the countries over the world thrown into one giant melting pot of corruption and thievery.

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Some of those bands aren't punk either.

What do you mean.......

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by The Watcher

What do you mean.......

Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror aren't punk bands. I'm not taking ''oh but they come from punk'' and all that rubbish for an answer 'cause in that case the Rolling Stones are a blues band.

[Dead-Air]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror aren't punk bands. I'm not taking ''oh but they come from punk'' and all that rubbish for an answer 'cause in that case the Rolling Stones are a blues band.

the rolling stones are a blues punk band in the traditions of pussy galore.

[Dr. Eugene Felikson]

GG Allin

[The Watcher]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror aren't punk bands.

Oh great here we go with setting parameters on what "punk" is........

[keep poppin pimples]

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Oh great here we go with setting parameters on what "punk" is........

i don't see anything wrong with that. the "punk is just an attitude" types give punk way too much credit by calling whatever they like punk.

don't get me wrong, i like a lot of blatantly not punk stuff in the same way i like punk, and see some kind of connections maybe, but alot things are not punk

[The Watcher]

I'm just unclear as to how some guy can just state like it's undisputed fact that a band like early Napalm Death (Hatred Surge/Scum/FETO era) that was full of punks, played shows with punk bands, wrote songs about social issues, vegetarianism and government control can be considered "not punk" just because it was full of blast beats....... I mean really that just doesn't make any sense to me........