[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Some wretched motherfucker yelling "Allahu Akbar" (coulda been "Yahweh Shreds" or "Jesus Poontang" for all I care) just killed eight people in NYC. Religion is just fucking GLAMOROUS.

How does anyone know what a guy in a closed van shouted in the middle of traffic? I call bullshit.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Life is EVERYTHING. It includes joy AND pain, food AND starvation. It does not need a deity to function, nor do humans need a deity to ensure the world doesn't fall apart.

someone who has been brainwashed into the belief that a god created the great and wonderful and perfect and all holy Earth for great, and wonderful and perfect humans created in that "god's" own image will see pain, suffering, hurt, and sorrow (all results of nervous and hormonal functions within our neurological system) as a "problem" that needs a supernatural solution to make sense.

pain is our nerves telling us we are suffering trauma of some sort. Fear is our brain telling us that something does not feel right, based on past experience and innate knowledge. Sorrow is our brain telling us that something or someone we loved is no longer there to love. These things are shared by all animals in some form or another, and frankly, are probaly shared by plants and trees, even though they have no nervous systems.

plants can tell when the sun is moving, when fellow plants are being attacked. they follow cycles we are unaware of, and share symbiotic relationships with fungi, animals, and other plants. They do not need a religion to tell them why they suffer.

that sounds like your personal bible xD

not all religions are anthropocentric

some don’t even require deities

i also... differentiate suffering from pain. pain being the physical thing you can’t do a thing about, suffering the mental torment and gnashing of teeth— guilt and remorse, fear and anxiety, etc etc

i get your rage but it seems to me it’s oversimplified and oversimplifying

i know im doing the same to your arguments btw— my excuse is i’m typing this in short breaks from work on a clock

[Rob Instigator]

again, you are making the false assumption that when one religion is described the person is referring to ALL religions.

I define a religion as a set of dogmatic beliefs, codified by a select group of "chosen" pendejos, created to "help" humans worship a "god" of some sort.

Buddhism, in it's initial form, was not and is still not, a religion. Philosophies about how to live life are NOT religion. Confucianism is not a religion. Veganism is not a religion.

If you read the Bible without the early brainwashing to set up catholic religion's lies, you can see that Jesus preached the dissolution of organized religion, the dissolution's of the priesthood/rabbinical order that kept the poor and low under their control by force feeding them what "YHVH" supposedly wanted from them. Jesus even preached the dissolution of the family structure, basically the same type of caste system that India is trying to erase, where what you were born into is what you were to be and what your children were to be. Jesus said all that shit was WACK, and the RELIGION/STATE killed him out of fear for their deep pockets and cushy whores.

and of course, just a few hundred years or so later, a bullshit organized religion full of priests and a head infallible Pope aligns w3ith the Roman emperor Constantine to make this new religion the "state" religion, and the hundreds of genocides, wars, massacres, persecutions, and terror commited in the name of Jesus began.

IT IS ALL A LIE. we are all, each of us, together in this life, and we are all, each of us, deeply alone in this life AT THE SAME TIME. That is life. There is no need for religion to explain it.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Some wretched motherfucker yelling "Allahu Akbar" (coulda been "Yahweh Shreds" or "Jesus Poontang" for all I care) just killed eight people in NYC. Religion is just fucking GLAMOROUS.

According to police reports he yelled "Allahu akbar" when he stepped out of the truck with a bb gun and a pellet rifle, trying to commit suicide-by-cop. he got his ass shot. The press headlines are that he yelled it AS he killed people. gotta follow the script!

remember when the white kid yelled "God is great!" while murdering 8 people in a church bible study?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I define a religion as a set of dogmatic beliefs, codified by a select group of "chosen" pendejos, created to "help" humans worship a "god" of some sort.

ahhhh... that’s a poor definition though. you need a better word. organized religion? institutionalized religion? something like that. in my earlier post i called them “cults.” not saying it’s a great definition, just a way to differentiate.

but before i was talking about religion in the broadest sense, i.e., the ideas and practices that connect/reconnect one to “the big other” as zizek calls it (ha ha ha, “the big other”— so accurate).

this is a necessity of the human mind though. because the human mind is limited and grasps only so much of “reality,” it needs some sort of additional crutch or support to make sense of the rest of it all.

so throughout our evolution we have developed sets of beliefs and practices and rituals to help us cope with our limited understanding, each with different levels of ridiculousness. but some are also somewhat sensible and useful, in whole or parts. hence there is a practical value in them regardless of their truth value as william james argued.

now, whether some predatory pendejo exploits that human need socially and commercially for power and wealth is another story. that’s the baby/bathwater problem. distinctions are important.

and i get that you mean a certain word in a certain way and someone else means it differently which is why it’s important to clarify definitions upfront. i now get your definition of religion, but it’s not mine. though we hate the same things, we call them something else. hence the misundertandings.

eta: my point is that the need of the human mind to make sense of the big unknown and connect with it is not garbage. but we often go wrong the wrong way about fulfilling this need no doubt.

eta:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

IT IS ALL A LIE. we are all, each of us, together in this life, and we are all, each of us, deeply alone in this life AT THE SAME TIME. That is life. There is no need for religion to explain it.

that is a religious statement, btw. (per my definition anyway). eta: because it provides an answer to religious questions. and moreover, it does so categorically and without any hint of doubt.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

remember when the white kid yelled "God is great!" while murdering 8 people in a church bible study?

And how about the white kid who flushed the dog down the toilet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZPCQB1Qyk

DICK!! (Him, not you).

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Life is EVERYTHING. It includes joy AND pain, food AND starvation. It does not need a deity to function, nor do humans need a deity to ensure the world doesn't fall apart.

someone who has been brainwashed into the belief that a god created the great and wonderful and perfect and all holy Earth for great, and wonderful and perfect humans created in that "god's" own image will see pain, suffering, hurt, and sorrow (all results of nervous and hormonal functions within our neurological system) as a "problem" that needs a supernatural solution to make sense.

pain is our nerves telling us we are suffering trauma of some sort. Fear is our brain telling us that something does not feel right, based on past experience and innate knowledge. Sorrow is our brain telling us that something or someone we loved is no longer there to love. These things are shared by all animals in some form or another, and frankly, are probaly shared by plants and trees, even though they have no nervous systems.

plants can tell when the sun is moving, when fellow plants are being attacked. they follow cycles we are unaware of, and share symbiotic relationships with fungi, animals, and other plants. They do not need a religion to tell them why they suffer.

You realize that you’re describing the *religion* of Rob Instigator here. You have everything except organization and a group component. Get one person to agree with you, talk about how you agree, and boom, you’ve got yourself a religion, baby.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

again, you are making the false assumption that when one religion is described the person is referring to ALL religions.

I define a religion as a set of dogmatic beliefs, codified by a select group of "chosen" pendejos, created to "help" humans worship a "god" of some sort.

Buddhism, in it's initial form, was not and is still not, a religion. Philosophies about how to live life are NOT religion. Confucianism is not a religion. Veganism is not a religion.

You’re saying this like it’s a fact, but it’s not. I’ve heard compelling arguments from Philosophy profs that American baseball can be viewed as a religion.

The strict definition of religion is constantly in flux because of how diverse religions are. Atheism is a religion, some would argue, because it has a group component and contains a central theory about how creation did/didn’t come to be.

Buddhism is philosophical, but you’re batty if you think it’s not a religion by a majority of the basic criteria for what a religion is. Not saying it definitely is, just saying it’s dumb to say it definitely isn’t.

Scientology is a religion based on bad science fiction novels. The definition for what a religion can be is far broader than you’re implying.

Science can be reasonably viewed as a religion for fuck’s sake.

Anyway, I think you’re picking and choosing here. Writing off all religions while kind of half-defending others by saying they’re not religions. I’m not sure what kind of logical fallacy this is, but if it isn’t one then I think you’ve invented a new one.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by Severian

You realize that you’re describing the *religion* of Rob Instigator here. You have everything except organization and a group component. Get one person to agree with you, talk about how you agree, and boom, you’ve got yourself a religion, baby.

Big time false equivalency. Rob didn't post answers to the "meaning of life" nor to what happens after you die. He simply described natural facts, and his opinion that they're enough by themselves and we don't need an imaginary friend to make sense of them does NOT a religion make.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Big time false equivalency. Rob didn't post answers to the "meaning of life" nor to what happens after you die. He simply described natural facts, and his opinion that they're enough by themselves and we don't need an imaginary friend to make sense of them does NOT a religion make.

he didn’t argue them but rather expressed them as categorical statements of belief.

hence, religion.

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

he didn’t argue them but rather expressed them as categorical statements of belief.

hence, religion.

That's an unsustainable position. Under your definition, EVERYTHING would be religion unless one is a candyass about it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

That's an unsustainable position. Under your definition, EVERYTHING would be religion unless one is a candyass about it.

a lot of human interaction is based on blind bullshit and bluster

that’s how your boyo trump got into power

“believe me”, etc.

zero analysis

fuck your lot

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

a lot of human interaction is based on blind bullshit and bluster

that’s how your boyo trump got into power

“believe me”, etc.

zero analysis

fuck your lot

Oyyyy... Come on. I didn't say rationality was optional; quite the opposite. In fact, the sanest among the religious will admit that their belief is irrational. Which puts them in an impossible predicament, but more power to 'em.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

That's an unsustainable position. Under your definition, EVERYTHING would be religion unless one is a candyass about it.

That’s kind of what I’m saying. Looking back at all the college religion classes I took, a common opinion was that a FUCKTON of things can be considered religions/religious. There is no one umbrella definition that meets all cases unless you simplify it to just be a belief system about that which can’t be known, soecifically what our purpose is and why we are here, with a certain amount of organization or community or ritual. Unitarianism is a religion that doesn’t have a solid position on the afterlife... most Unitarians surely believe there is one, but it’s not in the bylaws. Ideas on creation diverge too. Which leads me to assert that belief, organization and “big ideas” are basic elements of religion. Hence the baseball analogy. Rob offered up all of the above, except for organization. But it sounds like you’re on board, so...

Not a false equivalency. Rob was making blanket statements about what life/existence is/isn’t, presenting them as truisms. That’s one of many (countless) characteristics of “religion” as a construct.

If religion is a thing, it’s a system of belief about life and creation and whatever is or isn’t beyond (before/after) existence. Rob has a religion cookin’. Believe it.

Really in order to discuss it productively, we need to establish a definition for the purposes of our discussion that meets the requirements of all involved. My opinion is that Rob has about 80% of a religion at this point.

[ilduclo]

Religion is irrational. If "the thing" is not irrational, it's not religion.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Oyyyy... Come on. I didn't say rationality was optional; quite the opposite. In fact, the sanest among the religious will admit that their belief is irrational. Which puts them in an impossible predicament, but more power to 'em.

i had a priest admit to me in high school that there was no rational proof of god. he said that his faith was born not from reason but experience. that was an honest fucking priest.

the only rational position in this discussion as far as i can see is agnosticism. everyone else taking a position in this matter is “the faithful,” regardless of orientation.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Oyyyy... Come on. I didn't say rationality was optional; quite the opposite. In fact, the sanest among the religious will admit that their belief is irrational. Which puts them in an impossible predicament, but more power to 'em.

Well human beings are irrational and rational by nature, simultaneously. All of us. We are not “rational beings,” we are being with the ability to reason, who usually choose not to do so.

So rationality is kind of optional. It’s certaibly not mandatory. We all do irrational things every day. Just sayin’

[Severian]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

Religion is irrational. If "the thing" is not irrational, it's not religion.

People are irrational. People are *mostly* irrational. What’s yer point?

[gogologogolo]

You're all wrong. The universe is just a complex computer simulation running on some hyper-dimensional alien nerd's computer. He doesn't even know that humans exist yet--he's too busy working on a new prototype universe to fix all the bugs in this one. Probably once he figures out he'll shut this one down.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

feels like you’re equating all religions with the texan brand of christianity you’re familiar with

Texan brand......we have our own brand?