Girls Vs. Satan - Page 3

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daycare Nation

The purpose of Revelation was to present an antithesis to the Roman Goddess of war, Nike (Victory). It was a subversive message. The point is that the Christians are victorious without being warlike. They follow a little lamb who has been slain and yet somehow still stands. It's a symbol of non-violent resistance.

pansies.

acousticrock87 · 05.22.2006, 07:05 PM

It's very vague as to what it actually means. Kind of like Nostradamus, I suppose. Peter had a dream about a sheet being lowered with animals in it, and it ended up meaning Christians could eat unclean food now. Who knows.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 07:09 PM

it's all a big crock.

Daycare Nation · 05.22.2006, 07:11 PM

Something else you have to take into account with Revelation. Apocalypses were a popular form of writing at the time, and the Lion was a common animal which figured into them...in Revelation, it is set up so that you think there is going to be a Lion...It says the Lion is coming, the one who is worthy to open the seals because he has conquered...but when the "lion" shows up it is a slain lamb...the Greek word for lamb which is used actually means something more akin to "little lamb," "lamby" or "lambkins."

atari 2600 · 05.22.2006, 07:13 PM

It's poetic literature.

It does, however, become the biggest "crock" of all time though when fundamentalists, as they are wont to do, take it far too literally while also embellishing interpretations to suit their agenda.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

It's poetic literature.

It does, however, become the greatest "crock" of all time though when fundamentalists take it far too literally.

even before that. its moral content is deleterious for the mind. a religion of slaves. sheep who need a shepherd. a cranky god. spirit vs. the body. man vs. nature. god vs. man vs. nature. the "other" world (a crock) vs. this world (the only world). the revenge fantasies of the weak. they can all suck my left nut.

ok so the book of job is kind of a masterpiece of s/m. so are some of the psalms. the rest is poison.

Daycare Nation · 05.22.2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

It's poetic literature.

It does, however, become the biggest "crock" of all time though when fundamentalists, as they are wont to do, take it far too literally while also engaging in embellishment to suit their agenda.

I know, the "dispensationalists" claim to interpret the Bible literally, but they base their whole philosophy on this really warped, non-literal interpretation of the last verse of the book of Daniel. They fabricated a fake system to justify their political ideology, and then "cherry-picked" (took out of context) completely unrelated Bible verses that appear to support their scheme.

acousticrock87 · 05.22.2006, 07:24 PM

Like those people that let poisonous snakes bite them as signs of faith because Paul survived a snake bite. Stupid.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 07:29 PM

and worst of all: the stupid notions of what is good and what is evil. the good, the strong, the powerful as evil. the meek, the useless, the pitiful as good. hence being a loser as the greater good: the "moral purity" of the defeated. a suicidal religion.

atari 2600 · 05.22.2006, 07:30 PM

so i wrote before about judgement & non-judgement...

OT: An eye for an eye

NT: Turn the other cheek

I don't view turning the other cheek as weakness. I see it as incredible strength & an expression of true faith in the oneness of all things. Unfortunately, it's hardly ever practical though because the world, although very beautiful with possibility, is such an evil place really. On another tangent, Nature is filled with splendor, but can also be deadly unless one learns how to live harmoniously with it. Since the industrial revolution, we simply haven't. And before that, with Newton & Descartes, science felt it had conquered nature, but Einstein revised all that & allowed us to know more, but also less ultimately with the questions raised. Nuclear experiments that held the promise of free energy for the world ended up creating nuclear weapons that can destroy the world, but that ironically, also keep the peace.

Oh well you're a Nietzsche guy, !@#$%!, & I'm a Kierkegaard guy so there are lots of similarities, but also some key differences. Both of them were wise, & both of them, in their own way, were also pretty fucked-up individuals as well.

Daycare Nation · 05.22.2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

and worst of all: the stupid notions of what is good and what is evil. the good, the strong, the powerful as evil. the meek, the useless, the pitiful as good. hence being a loser as the greater good: the "moral purity" of the defeated. a suicidal religion.

Yes, if you buy into Nietszche's view of Christians.....but I don't.

I do agree though that most Christians have strayed from the truth.

acousticrock87 · 05.22.2006, 07:34 PM

Nietzsche. Eh. I had to do two 7 page reports on him this semester. He got me a C, that bastard.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

so i wrote before about judgement & non-judgement...

OT: An eye for an eye

NT: Turn the other cheek

I don't view turning the other cheek as weakness. I see it as incredible strength. UNfortunately it's hardly ever practical though because the world is such an evil place really.

(pardon the x rated picture but)

the incredible strength of the gimp.

^^ a perfect christian

you see where your notion of "evil" comes from? christianity pollutes the whole world. "an evil place" . what other sort of place you suggest we inhabit? "the other world" WHICH ONE???

you see i am debating this with you because i consider you a friend and a respectable mind. which is why i question why you chose to be imprisioned by the polluted view that traps you in an "evil" world.

the world is neither evil nor good.

acousticrock87 · 05.22.2006, 07:38 PM

For the record, you're not supposed to "choose" a religion. You're supposed to examine them and find one that seems the most credible. To be a Christian, you don't just choose to live in an evil world, it's more of a that's-how-it-is-whether-you-like-it-or-not thing. It's like philosophy. Hume is my favorite philosopher. I love his theories. But they're not credible.

atari 2600 · 05.22.2006, 07:50 PM

We are, by nature, evil, just like the Bible says.

This is not a mindfuck; this is a fact observable by psychology & science as well. The meaning of original sin: The frontal lobe of our brain is associated with ego-consciousness & this is the area of the brain where most everyone's synapses are firing right now. It is mental prison few ever escape. It sees the world as the knower & the known when there actually is no such distinction in reality. Particle physics teaches us that atoms are actually & befuddlingly mainly composed of empty space. States of matter are formed through the relations that particles have to each other, but ultimately all is energy fields & all is One. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Only through meditation & suffering can one learn the truth of the unconscious; it's not the natural state of consciousness & we are hard-wired this way for evolutionary survival. It worked okay for mankind for a long time, but we are long overdue for a heightening of consciousness.

We have to develop the true soulful humanity within ourselves through self-sacrifice; otherwise, we are just only really intelligent simians.

Daycare Nation · 05.22.2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

We are, by nature, evil just like the Bible says.

This is not a mindfuck, this is a fact observable by psychology & science as well. The meaning of original sin: The frontal lobe of our brain is associated with ego-consciousness & this is the area of the brain where most everyone's synapses are firing right now. Only through meditation can one learn the truth of the unconscious; it's not the natural state of consciousness & we are hard-wired this way for evolutionary survival. It worked okay for mankind for a long time, but we are long overdue for a heightening of consciousness.

We have to develop the true soulful humanity within ourselves through self-sacrifice; otherwise, we are just really intelligent animals.

I don't agree with original sin, but I agree with everything else you said about our bodies and the physical...which is why atheists are essentially telling the truth when they describe reality from their limited viewpoints. They are correct, but they don't have the whole picture.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atari 2600

We are, by nature, evil just like the Bible says.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see i find this so irritating because you've been poisoned by this fucking christianity. i wouldn't give a shit otherwise.

why pray tell must you ascribe moral values to human nature? and why such negative, self-defeating values? psychology is science, not morality. it proves nothing.

gack.

if you had any idea what you're doing to yourself with this...

i do, because you have intelligence, and talent, and yet you think you have an "evil nature" that should be defeated rather than-- cultivated.

a fucking disgrace. whatever fuckhead did this to you should be shot.

"evil"

i wanna fucking puke.

atari 2600 · 05.22.2006, 08:08 PM

Not dealing with one's fear of death is the root of all evil. I like to kid myself that I do not fear death as much as the average person because of my near death experience at age seven & the way I have cultivated my life with a passion for truth. The very likely possibility though is that I may not die without fear & that his lack of faith will make me food for the worms like mostly everyone else. I get the sense that you feel like the heightening of consciousness would be accomplished by moving "beyond good & evil", !@#$%!; you despise the percieved judgement inherent in Christianity's premiss/premise. i maintain that in this corporeal state, it is simply not possible to move beyond good & evil & that you are the one unfortunately fooling yourself. We are human animals, but we are human animals that have the (rarely used -- frontal lobe, remember?) ability to contemplate our own death. Thus, animals are sinless, but we are not. I have no problem with the individual self, i love art & music for instance, but as far as this being real in the ultimate sense of reality, it simply isn't; thus, the true artist has archetypal appeal because they have made the sacrifice to die to themself, at least a little bit. The true indvidual paradoxically must lose the self to discover their true nature. It's part of the great mystery of life. This'll come off as Obi-Wan Kenobi-ish, but we not only have ideas that bleed into each other as humans, we actually exchange atoms & energy regularly with each other & our surroundings too. This is a scientific fact revealed in quantum physics which one may argue is just theory because it is supposedly ever-expanding. My feeling is that there never will be a theory of everything & that Einstein is the closest to the Truth humans will ever get...ever. In fact, because we cannot handle the truth, (shades of Jack, sorry), & because humans live in complete denial of death, we will end up destroying ourselves & extinguishing the human race by abusing the truth that we do know & probably long before the Sun goes supernova. It's a fatalistic view, but hopefully we can all get our hearts & minds together....one day...someday.

I hope that doesn't make you wretch. It certainly shouldn't.

!@#$%! · 05.22.2006, 08:24 PM

you have a beautiful rhethoric but that does not diminish the fact that your quest for enlightenment starts from a "negative" premise, i.e., sinfulness, evil, etc. that i find is much harder to overcome than acceptance of what is without getting embroiled in moral judgments and horrible paranoias. most people who attempt it from that premise get caught up in the duality of this nightmare-- trying to be "good". quantum mechanics however has nothing to do with "sin". if by sin you mean the limitations of consciousness, then again, why must we ascribe artificial moral values to what simply is?

atari 2600 · 05.22.2006, 08:38 PM

It's not an arbitrary artificial moral value judgement. Aside from all the blatant empirical evidence, the very foundation of both Freudian & Jungian psychology, & the religious & philosophical wisdom of the ages, an EEG machine hooked up to a "normal" person's brain contrasted to one hooked up to a Tibetan monk in deep meditation proves it. The chemistry is completely different.

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05.22.2006, 07:05 PM	#42
acousticrock87 invito al cielo Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,515	It's very vague as to what it actually means. Kind of like Nostradamus, I suppose. Peter had a dream about a sheet being lowered with animals in it, and it ended up meaning Christians could eat unclean food now. Who knows.
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05.22.2006, 07:09 PM	#43
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	it's all a big crock.
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05.22.2006, 07:11 PM	#44
Daycare Nation expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,904	Something else you have to take into account with Revelation. Apocalypses were a popular form of writing at the time, and the Lion was a common animal which figured into them...in Revelation, it is set up so that you think there is going to be a Lion...It says the Lion is coming, the one who is worthy to open the seals because he has conquered...but when the "lion" shows up it is a slain lamb...the Greek word for lamb which is used actually means something more akin to "little lamb," "lamby" or "lambkins." __________________ That dragon ain't the love sweet love.
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05.22.2006, 07:13 PM	#45
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,212	It's poetic literature. It does, however, become the biggest "crock" of all time though when fundamentalists, as they are wont to do, take it far too literally while also embellishing interpretations to suit their agenda.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2006, 07:24 PM	#48
acousticrock87 invito al cielo Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,515	Like those people that let poisonous snakes bite them as signs of faith because Paul survived a snake bite. Stupid.
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05.22.2006, 07:29 PM	#49
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	and worst of all: the stupid notions of what is good and what is evil. the good, the strong, the powerful as evil. the meek, the useless, the pitiful as good. hence being a loser as the greater good: the "moral purity" of the defeated. a suicidal religion.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2006, 07:30 PM	#50
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,212	so i wrote before about judgement & non-judgement... OT: An eye for an eye NT: Turn the other cheek I don't view turning the other cheek as weakness. I see it as incredible strength & an expression of true faith in the oneness of all things. Unfortunately, it's hardly ever practical though because the world, although very beautiful with possibility, is such an evil place really. On another tangent, Nature is filled with splendor, but can also be deadly unless one learns how to live harmoniously with it. Since the industrial revolution, we simply haven't. And before that, with Newton & Descartes, science felt it had conquered nature, but Einstein revised all that & allowed us to know more, but also less ultimately with the questions raised. Nuclear experiments that held the promise of free energy for the world ended up creating nuclear weapons that can destroy the world, but that ironically, also keep the peace. Oh well you're a Nietzsche guy, !@#$%!, & I'm a Kierkegaard guy so there are lots of similarities, but also some key differences. Both of them were wise, & both of them, in their own way, were also pretty fucked-up individuals as well.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2006, 07:34 PM	#52
acousticrock87 invito al cielo Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,515	Nietzsche. Eh. I had to do two 7 page reports on him this semester. He got me a C, that bastard.
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05.22.2006, 07:38 PM	#54
acousticrock87 invito al cielo Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,515	For the record, you're not supposed to "choose" a religion. You're supposed to examine them and find one that seems the most credible. To be a Christian, you don't just choose to live in an evil world, it's more of a that's-how-it-is-whether-you-like-it-or-not thing. It's like philosophy. Hume is my favorite philosopher. I love his theories. But they're not credible.
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05.22.2006, 07:50 PM	#55
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,212	We are, by nature, evil, just like the Bible says. This is not a mindfuck; this is a fact observable by psychology & science as well. The meaning of original sin: The frontal lobe of our brain is associated with ego-consciousness & this is the area of the brain where most everyone's synapses are firing right now. It is mental prison few ever escape. It sees the world as the knower & the known when there actually is no such distinction in reality. Particle physics teaches us that atoms are actually & befuddlingly mainly composed of empty space. States of matter are formed through the relations that particles have to each other, but ultimately all is energy fields & all is One. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Only through meditation & suffering can one learn the truth of the unconscious; it's not the natural state of consciousness & we are hard-wired this way for evolutionary survival. It worked okay for mankind for a long time, but we are long overdue for a heightening of consciousness. We have to develop the true soulful humanity within ourselves through self-sacrifice; otherwise, we are just only really intelligent simians.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2006, 08:08 PM	#58
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,212	Not dealing with one's fear of death is the root of all evil. I like to kid myself that I do not fear death as much as the average person because of my near death experience at age seven & the way I have cultivated my life with a passion for truth. The very likely possibility though is that I may not die without fear & that his lack of faith will make me food for the worms like mostly everyone else. I get the sense that you feel like the heightening of consciousness would be accomplished by moving "beyond good & evil", !@#$%!; you despise the percieved judgement inherent in Christianity's premiss/premise. i maintain that in this corporeal state, it is simply not possible to move beyond good & evil & that you are the one unfortunately fooling yourself. We are human animals, but we are human animals that have the (rarely used -- frontal lobe, remember?) ability to contemplate our own death. Thus, animals are sinless, but we are not. I have no problem with the individual self, i love art & music for instance, but as far as this being real in the ultimate sense of reality, it simply isn't; thus, the true artist has archetypal appeal because they have made the sacrifice to die to themself, at least a little bit. The true indvidual paradoxically must lose the self to discover their true nature. It's part of the great mystery of life. This'll come off as Obi-Wan Kenobi-ish, but we not only have ideas that bleed into each other as humans, we actually exchange atoms & energy regularly with each other & our surroundings too. This is a scientific fact revealed in quantum physics which one may argue is just theory because it is supposedly ever-expanding. My feeling is that there never will be a theory of everything & that Einstein is the closest to the Truth humans will ever get...ever. In fact, because we cannot handle the truth, (shades of Jack, sorry), & because humans live in complete denial of death, we will end up destroying ourselves & extinguishing the human race by abusing the truth that we do know & probably long before the Sun goes supernova. It's a fatalistic view, but hopefully we can all get our hearts & minds together....one day...someday. I hope that doesn't make you wretch. It certainly shouldn't.
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05.22.2006, 08:24 PM	#59
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,564	you have a beautiful rhethoric but that does not diminish the fact that your quest for enlightenment starts from a "negative" premise, i.e., sinfulness, evil, etc. that i find is much harder to overcome than acceptance of what is without getting embroiled in moral judgments and horrible paranoias. most people who attempt it from that premise get caught up in the duality of this nightmare-- trying to be "good". quantum mechanics however has nothing to do with "sin". if by sin you mean the limitations of consciousness, then again, why must we ascribe artificial moral values to what simply is?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

05.22.2006, 08:38 PM	#60
atari 2600 invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 8,212	It's not an arbitrary artificial moral value judgement. Aside from all the blatant empirical evidence, the very foundation of both Freudian & Jungian psychology, & the religious & philosophical wisdom of the ages, an EEG machine hooked up to a "normal" person's brain contrasted to one hooked up to a Tibetan monk in deep meditation proves it. The chemistry is completely different.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|