[Severian]

I don't think of the Velvet Underground as punk. Pre-punk? Proto-punk? Sure. But for me "Punk" started with Raw Power. And I think plenty of bands have added to it, not the least of which is Sonic Youth. Also: Wire, the Cramps, Suicide, The Ramones, Joy Division, Fugazi, and tons of other bands with sounds as varied as the colors of the rainbow.

But I do see your point.

[Severian]

DAMMIT!

I forgot all about Young Fathers - White Men Are Black Men Too when I threw my album list together.

Fuck!

Ok, fuck it. Remove that list I posted from your memories completely. I still have work to do.

[evollove]

VU has like, four good songs. Lou Reedarted. I can't believe some people still take this joke of a band seriously.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Severian

I understand what you're sayin Mortte, but JAMC were not a poor man's VU. Honestly, there's no band I can really think of that could claim that title. VU were the poor man's VU. The only bands from anywhere near their era that had the same kind of vibe were bands like the Stooges, and a little later Can.... then Television (who came so much later that they were more followers than peers.)

JAMC definitely used the Velvet's formula, specifically the more simple songs that appeared on 3rd and Loaded, but they added a great deal to the sound to make it exciting for college pseudo punks in the early '80s. But they never pretended that wasn't the case. They mixed NYC art drone with Beach Boys melodies and covered it all in fuzz, and they created something new. Honestly, for a long time they were second only to Sonic Youth in my mind. Now I am a little bit less obsessed with them, but they were definitely influential and powerful in their own right. Without them, I don't think there would be any Dinosaur Jr, or Ride, or MBV. They really kicked open the doors for noise rock, along with Sonic Youth and Spacemen 3 and Husker Du.

Spacemen 3 are probably the most direct and unabashed disciples of the VU, but calling them or JAMC a "poor man's VU" is kind of missing the point. If anything, most of the music world probably considers SY to be more of a poor man's VU than JAMC.

I'm not trying to argue, it's just that I think the Velvets (like the Beatles) inspired SO many bands that it's hard to find good musicians that haven't ripped them off in some way, shape or form. But the same is true of JAMC, Spacemen 3 and Sonic Youth. All of those bands picked up where the Velvets left off to some extent. And they influenced generations of underground bands on their own.

The Velvets are probably the second most influential rock band of all time. They created a diaspora in the underground just as the Beatles did in the mainstream. You couldn't really BE a rock band after those two groups without ripping one or both of them off.

Sorry to wank on and on, but I really do crush hard on the Velvet Underground. For me, great rock music pretty much began in 1967.

Have you heard 13th Floor Elevators, Red Crayola & Pink Floyd´s two first albums? I think those all have really same kind of aggression and darkness in their music as Velvet. Also, this quite rare album from 1967 is really Velvet-mood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM_mp9mWLJI

How Velvet differs those is lyrics, Velvet was the only who sing about S/M & heroin.

No, Sy is not poor man´s VU. They added into Velvet base lot more than JAMC. As I said, I like JAMC but never find them great. There are not very much variations in JAMC career (third album they invent machine drums into their music, that´s all). BTW I have seen JAMC, they were very drunk but still quite great! Very noisy!

About the importance of influences making to other bands, it has said everybody who bought V.U. & Nico album started a band, I think it´s true, but really don´t believe that happend to everyone who bought SY, JAMC or Spacemen 3 -albums.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Severian

I don't think of the Velvet Underground as punk. Pre-punk? Proto-punk? Sure. But for me "Punk" started with Raw Power. And I think plenty of bands have added to it, not the least of which is Sonic Youth. Also: Wire, the Cramps, Suicide, The Ramones, Joy Division, Fugazi, and tons of other bands with sounds as varied as the colors of the rainbow.

But I do see your point.

To me punk started in Eddie Cochran´s Summertime Blues & Nervous Breakdown. To me Sonics were first punk band. And Yes, almost all those bands you mentioned are really great and I am glad they have existed and made great music. But I don´t think they add really nothing more what VU, Stooges, 13th Floor Elevators etc. have already done. I think the great invention in end of seventies were bands like Birthday Party, the Pop Group & of course Minutemen, who have a great idea to mix punk & Beefheart.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Have you heard 13th Floor Elevators, Red Crayola & Pink Floyd´s two first albums? I think those all have really same kind of aggression and darkness in their music as Velvet. Also, this quite rare album from 1967 is really Velvet-mood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM_mp9mWLJI

How Velvet differs those is lyrics, Velvet was the only who sing about S/M & heroin.

No, Sy is not poor man´s VU. They added into Velvet base lot more than JAMC. As I said, I like JAMC but never find them great. There are not very much variations in JAMC career (third album they invent machine drums into their music, that´s all). BTW I have seen JAMC, they were very drunk but still quite great! Very noisy!

About the importance of influences making to other bands, it has said everybody who bought V.U. & Nico album started a band, I think it´s true, but really don´t believe that happend to everyone who bought SY, JAMC or Spacemen 3 -albums.

Yeah, I'm very familiar with 13th Floor Elevators and early Ponk Floyd especially. Red Crayola, not as much.

[Mortte Jousimo]

My top10 of 2015 in order. This year has been a lot better in music than 2014.

1. CIRCLE: Pharaoh Overlord
The greatest experimental band in Finland has made the greatest album of 2015. They swim very deep waters in this one.

2. THE POP GROUP: Citizen Zombie
First I have doubts about this. But in a very first minute I noticed how this great band has made excellent comeback album. Maybe not as great as their other albums, but very near. Mark Stewart voice is still really great, songwriting is just awesome! I think no-one has mentioned anything about this in SYG.

3.FSA: Instrumentals 2015
Listened this band first time this year. Not been very excited about their earlier stuff, but this album is really great! David Pearce just creates fantastic, very much old Pink Floyd sounding masterpieces!

4.JSBX: Freedom Tower - No Wave dance party 2015
Their gig in 2014 & this album proved me JSBX is R´N`r band number 1!

5.CAVE/ELLIS: Loin Des Hommes
This soundtrack is not as great as Bad Seeds latest album, but still really great. Very meditative and strong! Again I think no mention in SYG.

6. PEKKA AIRAKSINEN: Afrodipankara
If Pekka had born in UK or US, he would be a electronic guru like for example Eno. But now he is just unknown genius with some very passionate fans around the world (I think he wanted to be that way). If I was synth-guy, I would definitely put this album the best of 2015!

7. LYDIA LUNCH RETROVIRUS: Urge To Kill
In this album past really lives! The best drumplaying from Bob Bert!

8. LEE RANALDO/ L`ORCHESTRE INHARMONIQUE DE NICE
Really great primitive piece, I don´t think Lee has done anything like this before (tell me if he has).

9. DEATH: N.E.W.
Didn´t expect much from this, but it is as great as their seventies stuff!

10. NEW ORDER: Music Complete
Really didn´t expect I would enjoy this album this much. Who needs Peter Hook?

[Severian]

Nice list, Mortte! You're definitely spot on about Flying Saucer Attack. I don't think Instrumentals 2015 will make my final top ten personally, but it was definitely a great album.

The early stuff is quite a bit different. More of an ambient/shoegaze vibe. I hope you get around to digging into it at some point, because it's really good stuff. Underrated in the grand scheme of things, but just as significant as a lot of the stuff that received more attention (MBV, Galaxie 500).

And I agree about Cave and Ellis. They are top tier score writers, up there with Reznor and Ross.

Sadly I didn't listen to the new JSBX enough this year for it to leave a lasting impression. I should get back to that one.

[evollove]

Still waiting for a list of top tracks of 2015.

Go on. Just name 'em. Look at your list of albums, notice the one or two titles that stick out the brightest and get typin'. Yes you. Am I fucking writing to myself here?

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Still waiting for a list of top tracks of 2015.

Go on. Just name 'em. Look at your list of albums, notice the one or two titles that stick out the brightest and get typin'. Yes you. Am I fucking writing to myself here?

From an incomplete list I was working on a whole back that I hurriedly added some songs to.

DJ Koze - "XTC"
Hudson Mohawke - "Scud Books"
Hudson Mohawke - "Ryderz"
Pusha T - "Untouchable"
Car Seat Headrest - "Times to Die"
White Noise Sound - "Step into the Light"
USA Nails - "Laugh it Up"
The Flaming Lips - "Atlantis" (Donovan cover)
Kanye West - "All Day"
Rhianna & Kanye West (feat. Paul McCartney) - "Four-Five Seconds"
Drake - "6 pm in New York"
Drake - "6man"
Kool Keith & L'Orange - "Twenty Fifty Three (feat. Mr. Lif)"
A$AP Rocky - "Excuse Me"
Lupe Fiasco - "Mural"
AFX / Aphex Twin - "midi pipe1c sds3time cube/klonedrm"
Deerhunter - "Snakeskin"
Kendrick Lamar - "Alright"
Kendrick Lamar - "The Blacker the Berry"
Jim O'Rourke - Friends With Benefits
Jim O'Rourke - Last Year
Wilco - More...
Viet Cong - Continental Shelf

Blah.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Severian

Nice list, Mortte!

Thanx!

[evollove]

Originally Posted by Severian

Blah.

Thanks. Really. But I think only six of those escaped my "Won't listen to again" list.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by evollove

Thanks. Really. But I think only six of those escaped my "Won't listen to again" list.

Hah! Fair enough.

Also"Sapokanikan" by Joanna Newsom. That one really grew on me.

[Severian]

Which six? Just curious.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Severian

EDIT: Version 2.0 (and still working)

10. Joanna Newsom - Divers
9. Car Seat Headrest - Teens of Style
8. Vince Staples - Summertime '06
7. Pusha T - Darkest Before Dawn: The Prequel
6. Botany - Dimming Awe, The Light is Raw
5. Oneohtrix Point Never - Garden of Delete
4. Young Fathers - White Men Are Black Men Too
4. Jefre Cantu-Ledesma - A Year With 13 Moons
3. Viet Cong - Viet Cong
2. Jim O'Rourke - Simple Songs
1. Hudson Mohawke - Lantern

This is the latest update, for those of you who care.

Expect at least one more.

[Severian]

Hell with it, I keep leaving out incredible albums.

I'm used to doing top 50 lists. Last year I had a top 100. 10 is too restrictive for me. I need 25 slots at least to show an accurate representation of my year.

EDIT: Version 3.0 (and still working)

10. Joanna Newsom - Divers
9. Pusha T - Darkest Before Dawn: The Prequel
8. Botany - Dimming Awe, The Light is Raw
7. Oneohtrix Point Never - Garden of Delete
6. Prefuse 73 - Rivington Não Rio
5. Young Fathers - White Men Are Black Men Too
4. Jefre Cantu-Ledesma - A Year With 13 Moons
3. Viet Cong - Viet Cong
2. Jim O'Rourke - Simple Songs
1. Hudson Mohawke - Lantern

---

Fuck, there's no way Prefuse 73's Rivington Não Rio can not be in the top 10.

[selkcip]

no AE_LIVE, no credibility

[Severian]

Oh, I finally did get to spend some quality time with AE_LIVE.

It's excellent. Absolutely excellent. Really.

However, my personal Album of the Year lists are usually studio albums only. Maybe that's a stupid rule... I tend not to include EP's or mixtapes either.

That's mainly because of archival records like Smart Bar - Chicago 1985. Or more recently, the Complete Mateix Tapes by VU. Those records contain music against which very little stands a chance, and it would hurt my brain to place those records on a list but beneath newer stuff.

Though AE_LIVE is not that kind of Live album. So I may reconsider.

Still a few days left before the year officially ends.

(Note: no Prefuse 73 also = no cred; no Hundson Mohawke = insanity; no Viet Cong = no balls... and so on )

[Mortte Jousimo]

I don´t understand how there cannot be credibility to anyone´s list. Music is just different opinions & tastes, there are no truths. And anyway this is 10 best albums of the year, not all the great albums of the year lists.

[Severian]

Yeah, I agree. I was just being snarky.