[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

i went to an all jewish school and got taught the crusades and the spanish inquisition and everything. no one apologized or got offended.


i mean, we got taught communism and no one got upset!

karl marx was a jew

[Toilet & Bowels]

look, why don't people read that guardian article i posted? it was just a couple of schools who chose not to teach the holocaust, but now the government is making studying the holocaust compulsory.

[pantophobia]

Originally Posted by the toilet's guardian

"It's up to schools to make a judgment on non-compulsory parts of the national curriculum. It is a broad framework and there is scope for schools to make their own decisions."

it's certainly a touchy thing about private schools teaching certain things, do private schools in the UK get government subsides and any money, or are they truly private (the US gov now provides money for private schools, mostly faith based) and thats just the thing.......

the fact that some schools omit certain histories is potentially lethal, that it unintentionally in-beds harmful bigotry. it's one thing to be sensitive to other religions, but when radical muslim groups publicly protest "Death to the UK" on London streets, well put it this way, they may be a minority in the muslim community, but how often do the most violent and ruthless attain power, how deeply embedded is the the current US administration indebted to the the extreme right christian community, with a growing muslim population, yes it will be mostly moderate populace, but how many of their Imams will be so tolerant of secularism and human rights when it doesn't suit their needs?

it's so in depth and convoluted, that talking about global sectarian education or lack there of gives me a headache

[demonrail666]

I don't know how truly self sufficient the private school system is in Britain, but I do know that single faith schools (Muslim, Catholic, etc) have more freedom with regards what they teach.

Personally I'd like to do away with single faith schools altogether, especially in the current climate of religious extremism. I'm all for kids being taught religion, but not from the viewpoint of one being superior to another. Isn't that at least part of the reason why we're in this mess in the first place?

[Bastian]

The last thing we need are private faith schools which teach their pupils to deny history and refuse secularism.

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

look, why don't people read that guardian article i posted? it was just a couple of schools who chose not to teach the holocaust, but now the government is making studying the holocaust compulsory.

You're right, but it's outrageous to know that even only a couple of schools chose to drop the Holocaust, especially with the justification they gave. It fits the trend in Europe of giving in to religious feelings and political correctness gone mad.

But hasn't always been the aim of schools in most countries to teach history in a DIY sort of way? I don't see what's so outrageous about finding out that suddenly any given government has decided that for obvious ethical and political reasons, they should drop facts in history as they please. It's not something that happens only in the UK, is it?

Originally Posted by Bastian

You're right, but it's outrageous to know that even only a couple of schools chose to drop the Holocaust, especially with the justification they gave. It fits the trend in Europe of giving in to religious feelings and political correctness gone mad.

I pretty much doubt that there's a feeling of dropping the Holocaust off school books just because of a sudden rise in political correctness. There is a considerably sized muslim community in Britain, and they represent an ever incresing work force that the government doesn't want to miss out on, as they invevitably do all the jobs that are vital to the country's economy. To give them some sort of false illusion that history is being re- written to accomodate theirs, is just one of the tactics to shut someone up. Nothing new there.

[sonicl]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905

[Toilet & Bowels]

i don't think private schools in this country receive government subsidy.

[jon boy]

they do in the fact that most mp's kids go to private schools.

[pantophobia]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

I pretty much doubt that there's a feeling of dropping the Holocaust off school books just because of a sudden rise in political correctness. There is a considerably sized muslim community in Britain, and they represent an ever increasing work force that the government doesn't want to miss out on, as they inevitably do all the jobs that are vital to the country's economy. To give them some sort of false illusion that history is being re- written to accommodate theirs, is just one of the tactics to shut someone up. Nothing new there.

yeah, shut SOME up, but what will happen if a government endorses something like that? hypothetically speaking of course

well first off you piss off israel, and you lose diplomatic ties to them,

possibly hinder ties to germany and other euro countries who have laws against the holocaust denial, becomes hypocritical in their eyes that the country that beat them in war, starts endorsing a clearly anti-semetic rhetoric, here's a list of other countries with laws against holocaust denial: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Italy, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland. certainly some would be rather pissed about it, and some would have something to gain if Britain become a pariah, certainly those trillion dollar economies

then the beast, the United States, has the largest jewish population in the world, more then 6 mil, you don't think they wouldn't influence some diplomatic ties there, one can say well they aren't certainly going after countries in the arab league for their holocaust denial as vigilantly, maybe cause it's hard to change a whole region, but a single country, a majority christian country, an ally can be pressured quite immensely



now most likely none of that will happen, and some of those euro countries would just as likely repeal many of the holocaust denial laws themselves to appease growing muslim extremism

[pantophobia]

if i didn't know any better it would seem some of those schools were influenced by National Front, but they hate immigrants, and certainly muslim immigrants

[Danny Himself]

Originally Posted by pantophobia

if i didn't know any better it would seem some of those schools were influenced by National Front, but they hate immigrants, and certainly muslim immigrants

England is probably the most racist and anti-social nation in Europe. Schools will no doubt slide that way..

[sonicl]

I'm not sure that the British are a racist nation as such, more that there is a fear of loss of national identity as a result of immigration. Of course, most Britons don't actually know what their national identity is, but that's not what's important...

Originally Posted by pantophobia

yeah, shut SOME up, but what will happen if a government endorses something like that? hypothetically speaking of course

well first off you piss off israel, and you lose diplomatic ties to them,

possibly hinder ties to germany and other euro countries who have laws against the holocaust denial, becomes hypocritical in their eyes that the country that beat them in war, starts endorsing a clearly anti-semetic rhetoric, here's a list of other countries with laws against holocaust denial: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Italy, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland. certainly some would be rather pissed about it, and some would have something to gain if Britain become a pariah, certainly those trillion dollar economies

then the beast, the United States, has the largest jewish population in the world, more then 6 mil, you don't think they wouldn't influence some diplomatic ties there, one can say well they aren't certainly going after countries in the arab league for their holocaust denial as vigilantly, maybe cause it's hard to change a whole region, but a single country, a majority christian country, an ally can be pressured quite immensely



now most likely none of that will happen, and some of those euro countries would just as likely repeal many of the holocaust denial laws themselves to appease growing muslim extremism

I really don't think that it got to that extent yet. And, also, the ties between Israel and Britain aren't as close as those that the United States have with them. It depends how you see things. Personally any ideology that falls into the right or left of the political spectrum is one that is easily changed, if economical interests require to do so. Take the growing ties between the States and China: if they meant denying the existence of the Holocaust to enforce such fruitful relationship, i'm more than certain that it would be done, regardless of the Jewish population in America. Really, economics dictate political strategy and therefore influence the cultural climate of nations, not vice versa.

[Danny Himself]

Originally Posted by sonicl

I'm not sure that the British are a racist nation as such, more that there is a fear of loss of national identity as a result of immigration. Of course, most Britons don't actually know what their national identity is, but that's not what's important...

Perhaps not the older generations, but the younger britons are definitely predominantly racist. I know because I have to go to school with the said generation. I was once asked, "why aren't you racist?".

[pantophobia]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

economics dictate political strategy and therefore influence the cultural climate of nations, not vice versa.

well it can be vice versa some times, oil is a good example, the rattling of sabres there often raise oil prices when ever threat of reduced flow from either say Iraq or Venezuela, then Iran which if i remember correctly doesn't export to the US, then would deal heavily with the EU, the US has gone into a small spike in the last few weeks up about 20cents per Gal. has there been a spike in petrol prices since the hostage situation happened?

So you truly believe that the hostage situation is a credible cause for the rise in the price of oil? I'm sorry, but i find that a little simplistic. Couldn't it be more realistic detecting an extraordinary demand for it by the tiger economies, which consequentially shakes the world's economics and therefore go on to influence the fight for it between different nations?

[pantophobia]

well not the sustained rise no, but the markets are fickle, that in a single day prices will jump and then when it's resolved it stablizes, all in one day

the straight of hormuz is a constant concern cause it's the only places ships can enter the persian gulf, and it comes extremely close to the iranian border, when ever there is a rumor or scare that they would force a blockade barrels tend to jump a couple of dollars

but it seems to be easing a bit at the moment, but all it takes is some stuble in the dipolmacy process for prices to jump again

(VIENNA, Austria AP) -- Benchmark crude prices dipped below $65 Tuesday as tensions in the Britain-Iran standoff eased.

Prices had risen steadily since 15 British sailors and marines were detained March 23 by Iran for allegedly entering Iranian waters. On Monday, crude fell below $66 a barrel after Iran's chief international negotiator called for an end to "the language of force" in the dispute.

Light, sweet crude for May delivery fell 97 cents to $64.97 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange by afternoon in Europe. Two weeks ago, the contract was trading under $60 a barrel.

On London's ICE Futures exchange, Brent crude for May sank 87 cents to $67.91 a barrel.

"The market seemed to believe statements by Iran's secretary of the Supreme National Security Council, Ali Larijani, could ease tensions between the Islamic Republic and the U.K.," said Vienna's PVM oil Associates.

Still, Victor Shum, of Purvin & Gerz in Singapore warned of potential market volatility.

"There's no clear indication one way or the other how it's going to be resolved," Shum said. "There could be price swings in either direction depending on how this situation develops."

The fear that Iran could disrupt the oil trade is causing traders to add a risk premium, especially as they see less of a cushion after the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries' production cuts