[truncated]

Originally Posted by Glice

I agree with hip priests list; while I genuinely think some on the list are definitely over-rated (especially, with bells on, Zappa, The Beatles and Jimi Hendrix), I think part of the point is that rarely are a band, especially one of the legion of 'classic rock' groups, deserving of anything like the hyperbolic nonsense that gets thrown at them. The point, then, is that in spite of my personal feelings, all the bands on Hip Priest's list (and a few others I can't be bothered to name) could never live up to the hype that's thrown at them.

*Insert long drawn out rant about how the Beatles are the worst thing to happen to music ever*

The Fall, The Shaggs and The Monks are deserved of all praise thrown at them, and then some more. This is truth.

*Sputters*

What?? WHAT??

Jimi Hendrix, overrated? I don't worship the guy or anything, but there is no denying his sheer fuckin talent!

Yeah, you practically can't wipe your ass without seeing a Beatle on the toilet paper, but again, there is no denying the change their music effected, their evolution as a band, their pioneering of style...

*Convulses*

[dietzer123]

the beatles shaped modern rock. the stones did alot to shape hard rock. black sabbath invented metal. i rarely listen to the stones but i do acknowledge their influence.

[!@#$%!]

too many lonely people around here looking for attention talking out of their ass randomly

why take such shit seriously? good music is much bigger than silly opinions.

i just laugh off the stupidity unless it becomes out of control

btw anybody who admires patti smith or the new york dolls and ignores the influence of the rolling stones has a brick of shit in their ears

[aaronalive]

a band that comes to mind when i hear the word overrated is tool.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

too many lonely people around here looking for attention talking out of their ass randomly

why take such shit seriously? good music is much bigger than silly opinions.

i just laugh off the stupidity unless it becomes out of control

btw anybody who admires patti smith or the new york dolls and ignores the influence of the rolling stones has a brick of shit in their ears

Haha! I love you !@#$%

I just can't ignore this. It suggests something fundamentally wrong with global human mentality. The universe has begun a slow collapse.

These claims are the equivalent of saying the sky is orange. How can you guys assert such things? Would you lump SY in with these bands, simply because they get a lot of publicity?

Was there "free lobotomy hour" on here today while I was on break??

[noumenal]

Hip Priest - Hey, say what you will about The Beatles or Led Zep, but leave my Ludwig Van alone. I think that he deserves every bit of attention he has received. His music is one of the pinnacles of western art. Same goes for Mozart, whoever said that. However, I agree about the Dvorak and Britten. And I will add Tchaikovsky to the list.

Fred Cracklin - Don't ever speak to Hip Priest that way again. He is one of the best people on here and doesn't deserve that kind of bullshit. When you attack HP, you attack the entire forum.

[dietzer123]

yea, that was harsh. hip priest may be WAY off here but he posts with immense skill

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Yo La Tengo.

[Toilet & Bowels]

to say the cream rises to the top in jazz needs to be put in perspective, and that is that jazz has had far longer than rock to be assessed and reassessed, allowing the greats to be hailed and the chaff to be forgotten. but look at contemporary jazz and wynton marsalis is the currently the most famous contemporary jazz musician in the world. unless you count nora jones or jaime cullum. and who remembers or talks about the white rip-off jazz groups of the 30s and 40s in the same way they talk about duke ellington or count basie?

[dietzer123]

and guys like sun rah (ra?) and ornette coleman weren't hailed as geniuses back in the day either. eventually the cream of the crop rises to the top in all genres generally

[GeneticKiss]

The next idiot that calls Nirvana, Radiohead, or the Beatles overrated gets their jaw busted.

I grant you that we're all entitled to our own opinions, but it seems like these guys get picked on more than anyone.

Nirvana-many of us wouldn't be SY fans without Nirvana. Yes, Kurt does get a bit overworshipped by some kids these days, but you have to admit they don't much much else worship-worthy from their own generation (the day people start hailing My Chemical Romance as geniuses is the day I decorate the walls with my brain)...

Radiohead-released two of the best albums of the 90s- The Bends and OK Computer, and the first great of the 21st century, Kid A...yeah, sure, their last album was a slight disappointment (on some of the tracks Thom actually does sound like the whiner many of his detractors make him out to be), but it doesn't take away from the fact that few to no artists before them have been able to use the studio technology that most bands use to make themselves sound "bigger" to sound more interesting, and have integrated electric (guitar, bass) with electronic (synths, loops) music better than most of their contemporaies.

The Beatles- they helped create guitar pop as we know it today...and besides, I think many people just say "Fuck the Beatles" so they can sound "punk", or "indie", or "underground" whatever. Grow up.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

The next idiot that calls Nirvana, Radiohead, or the Beatles overrated gets their jaw busted.

hah hah i'll pick up that gauntlet w/ glee

here:

i think nirvana is somewhat overrated, i like them, truly but they get **too much credit** by people who know little or nothing of rock history or were blinded by their influence. did they have a pivotal role in mainstream culture? sure! but please go listen to the melvins to know where they were coming from.

now, i think radiohead is way overrated because they just plain suck, as they sucked in the 90s, and they always will, forever and ever, amen, hah hah, what horrid music! i rather hear toilets flush! (actually, quite interesting sounds).

the beatles are not overrated *currently*. they were overrated by baby boomers, who credited them with inventing something like EVERYTHING in modern pop music, and they could do no wrong, and their shit was ambrosia, and their piss gold, but i don't think they are overrated these days. influential they certainly were like probably no other band. the greatest? you say yes. i say no. you say stop. and i say go go go.

my jaw? har har har. many laughs...

----

but anyway, what truly really galls me (& the reason i returned to post here) is the required combination of deep ignorance + infinite pretentiousness to call beethoven overrated. beethoven. i mean-- c'mon! ! you heard some excerpts of the 9th symphony in a bruce willis movie & now you're an expert? your cellphone has "ode to joy" as a ringtone and this lets you judge? no... sorry, no... just no.

go listen to the late quartets, or the kreutzer sonata, or his piano sonatas, or the eroica. aghhghghhghghghghghghg!! go listen!!! sheeesh... now if you have tolstoi's literary chops you get to criticize the kreutzer sonata, otherwise you're WAY out of your league... oh yeah chuck berry is exempt too & with good reason.

& la creme de la creme de la creme theory my ass-- no detail provided in the "explanation" of jazz. please explain la creme de la kenny g!

sorry i had to vent

[Hip Priest]

Quick responses to some of last night's comments before I go to work, if I may:

Originally Posted by noumenal

Hip Priest - Hey, say what you will about The Beatles or Led Zep, but leave my Ludwig Van alone. I think that he deserves every bit of attention he has received. His music is one of the pinnacles of western art. Same goes for Mozart, whoever said that. However, I agree about the Dvorak and Britten. And I will add Tchaikovsky to the list.

Fair enough. The dude will be considered off target for a bit. I will say, however, that the adulation and time given to him means that composers such as Janacek get too little attention. So I'd maintain that he's overrated by comparison at least.

Originally Posted by noumenal

Fred Cracklin - Don't ever speak to Hip Priest that way again. He is one of the best people on here and doesn't deserve that kind of bullshit. When you attack HP, you attack the entire forum.

Kind words, appreciated.

Originally Posted by truncated

Was there "free lobotomy hour" on here today while I was on break??

Hey, i just saw an advert that said Free Health Care! By the time I found out what it consisted of...

Originally Posted by dietzer123

yea, that was harsh. hip priest may be WAY off here but he posts with immense skill

Again, that's appreciated, dietzer. See, 'Fred' (or should we use your old board name?)? Dietzer can stand me having an opinion contrary to his own. Learn his skill. I happen to like a relatively small pool of artists from a very wide range of stytles, so I don't like lot of people that others will. But if some poster wants to come on here and say that all of my favourites are overrated, then that's his right. I'd explain why that's the case, 'Fred', but would there be any point?

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

to say the cream rises to the top in jazz needs to be put in perspective, and that is that jazz has had far longer than rock to be assessed and reassessed, allowing the greats to be hailed and the chaff to be forgotten. but look at contemporary jazz and wynton marsalis is the currently the most famous contemporary jazz musician in the world. unless you count nora jones or jaime cullum. and who remembers or talks about the white rip-off jazz groups of the 30s and 40s in the same way they talk about duke ellington or count basie?

I love this. Great point, yes indeed. We've had the chance to reassess and theorise and whatever. That'll also be why I struggled to compile a classical list of any length. Nice one Toliet & Bowels.

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

The next idiot that calls Nirvana, Radiohead, or the Beatles overrated gets their jaw busted.

...I grant you that we're all entitled to our own opinions, but it seems like these guys get picked on more than anyone.

Nirvana-many of us wouldn't be SY fans without Nirvana...

...Radiohead-released two of the best albums of the 90s...

...The Beatles- they helped create guitar pop as we know it today...and besides, I think many people just say "Fuck the Beatles" so they can sound "punk", or "indie", or "underground" whatever. Grow up...

Aww, come on. Saying that you'll bust jaws and 'grow up' is as inflammatory as what you're objecting too, surely, Genetic? I can't stand Yorke's vocals on RAdiohead music, I actually think they'd be good as an instrumental band though. Nirvana and the Beatles have both had massive influence, it's undeniable. I like Nirvana (especially 'All Apologies') but I just can't take to the Beatles. Their influence is undeniable though, I never stated otherwise. I've lived a couple of miles from Liverpool all my life, and as a consequence have had to hear about The Beatles from that side of the river a little too much. THat has in part no doubt affected my opinion of them a little ie I'm just fed up of them! I kind of like a little of their later stuff though.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

...anyway, what truly really galls me (& the reason i returned to post here) is the required combination of deep ignorance + infinite pretentiousness to call beethoven overrated. beethoven. i mean-- c'mon! ! you heard some excerpts of the 9th symphony in a bruce willis movie & now you're an expert? your cellphone has "ode to joy" as a ringtone and this lets you judge? no... sorry, no... just no.

go listen to the late quartets, or the kreutzer sonata, or his piano sonatas, or the eroica. aghhghghhghghghghghghg!! go listen!!! sheeesh... now if you have tolstoi's literary chops you get to criticize the kreutzer sonata, otherwise you're WAY out of your league... oh yeah chuck berry is exempt too & with good reason.

& la creme de la creme de la creme theory my ass-- no detail provided in the "explanation" of jazz. please explain la creme de la kenny g!

sorry i had to vent

Hey, no need to apologise, !@#$%!. but be fair, you don't know how much Beethoven I've heard. It happens to be a lot, and I'm just not too keen, that's all. And I would return to the overrated by comparison point. It's impossible to out of my league when it's about opinions - we can all state them. If there's ever a thread about the qualitative and quantatative aspects of LvB's work then I'll expand my points a little.

THe jazz thing, two points - Kenny G/Jamie Cullum etc etc etc are pop, not jazz, in my opinion. If I'd remembered Kenny G, he'd have been in the pop list with JC. Only non-jazz people think of them as jazz, really. They may have come from the jazz world but they are definitely now pop.

And, !@#$%!: I didn't expand on the jazz thing because this is a thread about overrated bands - it seemed out of place. I just thought I'd make the point that the jazz world seems to me more able to identify the greats. There is no jazz equivalent of the Foo Fighters. Start a jazz thread and, dude, I'll be in residence there!

You may not like all of my opinions, but you've got to like that multi-sourced split quoting!

Toodle pip, everyone. Time to go to work!

[jon boy]

no way was jimi hendrix overated!

[Signpost]

Originally Posted by truncated

And who said Tortoise was overrated? Shame on you!

And why should i be ashamed? They haven't released anything interesting since Standards which is from 2001 if i recall correctly. I know much more interesting and less popular bands than Tortoise.

[marleypumpkin]

Jim Morrison. It's that simple & I'll qoute Denis Leary,

"I'm drunk, Im nobody. I'm drunk, I'm famous. I'm drunk, I'm fucking dead.
Big fat, harry dead guy in a bath tub, there's your title for you."

[truncated]

Originally Posted by Signpost

And why should i be ashamed? They haven't released anything interesting since Standards which was from 2001 if i recall correctly. I know much more interesting and less popular bands than Tortoise.

I agree wholeheartedly that there are better bands out there than Tortoise, and that they haven't done anything spectacular recently. However, this doesn't preclude what they HAVE done, which I think deserves them some praise. Incidentally, I don't think they're overrated in that I personally don't hear that much attention given to them these days anyhow.

I think this is where many of our disagreements with one another lie. How are we defining overrated? The way I took the question, I'm factoring my personal taste out of it, and trying to objectively take into consideration a band's/artist's 'contribution' to the scene.

I could say the Backstreet Boys were overrated, because they made me retch. However, if I try to see it objectively, they spearheaded the first significant resurgence of the boy band since the early 90s. So in that respect, I suppose they're not overrated.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by truncated

I think this is where many of our disagreements with one another lie. How are we defining overrated? The way I took the question, I'm factoring my personal taste out of it, and trying to objectively take into consideration a band's/artist's 'contribution' to the scene.

I worked on two definitions, I think - Stuff that I just can't understand the love for (eg Foo Fighters) and stuff hat gets so much attention that other people from the same field suffer (eg Beethoven).

I also took overrated to mean their music rather than their influence. Perameters were not clearly set, so I created some for myslf!

[truncated]

Who I DO think is overrated - I agree of course with whoever said Metallica.

And, while I don't mind listening to them, I think both Janis Joplin and the Doors are overrated.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

I worked on two definitions, I think - Stuff that I just can't understand the love for (eg Foo Fighters) and stuff hat gets so much attention that other people from the same field suffer (eg Beethoven).

The latter seems quite valid. The former, well - there's a lot of music I don't understand the love for, but if you're judging them within their respective 'fields,' they deserve recognition for their accomplishments in that sphere.

I give Paul Glazby his due praise - he's one of the absolute best hard house DJs out there, and helped spawn Vicious Circle, which has in turn birthed a whole new generation of hard house. I can't understand why people listen to techno "leisurely," but I acknowledge what goes into its production.

(Although it should be noted that I listen to techno while running.)