[Rob Instigator]

my black rock heroes

jimi hendrix
sly stone
george clinton
little richard (the original king of rock)
vernon reid

[Glice]

Originally Posted by thewall91

i did not know poly styrene was black. I apologize for my lack of punk knowledge on this matter.

I didn't realise this either; it turns out that all the photos I'd seen have been altered somewhat - you know how the press will often soften up people's colour so they look slightly more neutral? Yeah, probably a racial agenda there, looking at her website she's not a white girl with unnaturally curly hair, she's a black girl with braces (cute). But you wouldn't be able to tell from a lot of the photos.

Anyway, I have nothing to add to this debate, just thought I'd throw that in to the mix, as it were.

[atari 2600]

this post is for the "ass blaster" who seems to be taking a page from khchris.

Sister Rosetta Tharpe was briefly cited as an important influence on blues in Martin Scorcese's documentary series.

wfmu has a video
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/0..._rosetta_.html

also youtube has several
http://www.youtube.com/results?search=sister_rosetta&search_type=search_v ideos

Billie Holiday & Sarah Vaughan are two big names as jazz vocalists.

As much as I love Patti Smith & Chan Marshall in particular (of the names mentioned so far),
Kim Gordon is of course the alpha female rock star.

HAIL!

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

my black rock heroes

jimi hendrix
sly stone
george clinton
little richard (the original king of rock)
vernon reid

my top 10 black performers (rock or otherwise):

Jimi Hendrix is undoubtably number one since he is far & away the greatest guitarist of all time. Sure, he learned how to play the whole guitar (& the amp) from Buddy Guy, but Buddy Guy simply isn't great enough to make the top 10. He wrote great songs & sang them distinctively as only he could. Neil Young once remarked that "there's nobody even in same building as that guy."
John Coltrane is my number two because he defied convention & made an extraordinary leap into deeply personal art that was dismissed at first but that history has proven to be largely universal. As much as I love his progenitor, Charlie "Bird" Parker, he doesn't make the top ten.
Robert Johnson is number three because he's the King of the Delta Blues & shaped country, folk, & blues. He is also perhaps the most deeply soulful performer of all time. Son House & Big Bill Broonzy were the only two guys previously recorded really performing blues at a high artistic level before Mr. Johnson. Son House popularized the notion that Johnson "sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads" after Robert had disappeared for a couple of years & came back to play circles around everyone. He's the original shooting star, unless you count Mozart, that is.
Chuck Berry should be second in command perhaps since he had an incalculable influence on rock n' roll & the Brits; he makes the list at number four.
Bud Powell was described as "the eighth wonder of the world" by Miles Davis because of the things he can do on piano that no one else before or since can really completely match. Miles, who changed the course of jazz history three times, unfortunately doesn't even make my top ten.
Art Tatum also shares a similar distinction. His music is beyond amazing & cannot be imitated.
Herbie Hancock is my favorite jazz piano player. His work with Miles Davis' band & his first few solo records are magic. He went on to be a fusion performer & to try to make some money at the expense of his art, (first with The Headhunters & most recent with Christina Aguliera) however, which is the reason he is listed after Bud & Art. A prodigy through & through, he was playing Mozart with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra at age eleven. He went on to briefly study under the great Lennie Tristano, the true creator of cool & free jazz. I know, "What about Thelonius Monk & McCoy Tyner?" There's only 10 slots, folks. He also invented, or at least popularized, the dj record scratch with his crossover album Future Shock. (after Alvin Toffler's popular book).
Al Green is my number eight because I love all his music & he has one of the finest voices in all of recorded music. "Love & Happiness" is my favorite Al Green song. Marvin Gaye & Stevie Wonder have some exceptional material as well.
Muddy Waters was a field hand discovered in Mississippi when Library of Congress documentarians went searching for Robert Johnson who was already dead by poisoning. He started electric blues in Chicago & was also highly influential on the Brits along with Ray Charles, Little Richard & Howlin' Wolf in particular.
& the final spot on the top 10 list goes to
Charles Mingus who proved himself to be one of jazz' most experimental innovators & always led a great band thoughout his career.

[dazedcola]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

as for black women in rock:

poly strene from x-ray specs

.

nvmd

[nomadicfollower]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

my top 10 black performers (rock or otherwise):

Jimi Hendrix is undoubtably number one since he is far & away the greatest guitarist of all time. Sure, he learned how to play the whole guitar (& the amp) from Buddy Guy, but Buddy Guy simply isn't great enough to make the top 10. He wrote great songs & sang them distinctively as only he could.
John Coltrane is my number two because he defied convention & made an extraodinary leap into personal art that was dismissed at first but that history has proven to be largely universal. As much as I love his progenitor, Charlie "Bird" Parker, he doesn't make the top ten.
Robert Johnson is number three because he's the King of the Delta Blues & shaped country, folk, & blues. He is also perhaps the most deeply soulful performer of all time. Son House & Big Bill Broonzy were the only two guys previously recorded really performing blues at a high artistic level before Mr. Johnson.
Al Green is my number four because I love all his music & he has one of the finest voices in all of recorded music. "Love & Happiness" is my favorite Al Green song. Marvin Gaye has some great material as well.
Chuck Berry should be second in command perhaps since he had an incalculable influence on the Brits & he makes the list though at number five.
Bud Powell was described as "the eighth wonder of the world" by Miles Davis because of the things he can do on piano that no one else before or since can really completely match. Miles, who changed the course of jazz history three times, unfortunately doesn't even make my top ten.
Art Tatum also shares a similar distinction. His music is beyond amazing.
Herbie Hancock is my favorite jazz piano player. His work with Miles Davis' band & his first few solo records are magic. He went on to be a fusion artist & try to make some money at the expense of his art, however, which is the reason he is listed after Bud & Art. A prodigy through & through, he was playing Mozart with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra at age eleven. He went on to breifly study under the great Lennie Tristano. I know, "What about Thelonius Monk & McCoy Tyner?" There's only 10 slots, folks.
Muddy Waters was a field hand discovered in Mississippi when Library of Congress documentarians went searching for Robert Johnson who was already dead by poisoning. He started electric blues in Chicago & was also highly influential on the Brits along with Ray Charles, Little Richard & Howlin' Wolf in particular.
& the final spot on the top 10 list goes to
Charles Mingus who proved himself to be one of jazz' most experimental innovators & always led a great band thoughout his career.

*Applause*

I've never heard of Bud Powell though.

[dazedcola]

Arthur Lee is a great black rock artist too his band (Love) did some great music.Him and hendrix even did some jam session together. It's sad that he has leukemia right now and can't pay his medical bills.

Other Great Black artists not mentioned: Bad Brains
Living Colour

[atari 2600]

Rob Instigator already did mention Vernon Reid (from Living Colour).
Some may consider him technically gifted, but I am of the opinion that Vernon Reid simply sucks. I suppose he needed another name to fill out a rock top five. At least he's listed last. ...a great top four though...

Yeah, Bad Brains are cool. Man, did they freak people out.

Prince Rogers Nelson didn't make my top 10, but he deserves an honorable mention too.

Also Sonny Sharrock...

oh & i edited & reshuffled

[Rob Instigator]

CHUCK BERRY IS ROCK N ROLL

aretha franklin sang gospel and soul

little richard IS ROCK N ROLL> he will tell you himself. he ROCKED. he had girls panties wet with his gyrating and piano playin'. he was ROCKIN.

I read several books on the history of popular music in america. I have read about how so much comes from the Blues, which is dead on right. However, I also read that after the original wave of rock n roll (early to mid 50's), once the anglo masses got into it, the african-american population sought something else, leaving a gaping hole. Where once the pioneers of this music we call rock were largely african-american, the mainstays of it became younger white males.
african american culture sprang up new things. it combined church music with rhythm & Blues and created soul. It combined soul and rock and psychedelics and created funk. It combined all musics and beats and boasts and created hip hop.
it seems to me that innovation in this country, at least in popular music, is led by the minorities seekingt to create something new for themselves, which, as we all know, then gets assimilated by the popular mass culture. (co-opted may be too strong a word)

I once heard a comedian talking about this. I think it was eddie griffin. he was talking about why is it that when black kids do something outrageous in culture or music, white kids have to come around and take it over the top. his example was , hip hop ganstas rap about pimpin and drugs and the streets and gang-banging, scaring people, and thn white kids come around with music about "I love satan!, death to all!, kill em all!, satan!, god is dead!, hate hate hate!, anger! rage!"

which is totally true. it makes me laugh.

rock n roll is, or was originally about, fucking. rock n roll means to fuck. Muddy waters sang it in ROCK ME - "rock me baby rock me all night long. rock me baby, like my back ain't got no bone." That is the driving force in rock music.

even today, half of the music is hedonistic about fucking and sex and eating pussy and good stuff like that, and half is rage and anger and sadness and bitterness about NOT fucking and sex and eating pussy.

Joan Jett rocked, and still rocks. she loves eating pussy and she knows that to ROCK properly, it is not about affecting a pose, or pretending yougot a cock, but you have to feel that propulsive, shall I say "masculine" force. the better female rockers (PJ Harvey, Tori Amos(yes you can rock with a piano), Kim Gordon, Kim Deal, Exene, Courtney Love (if you like her,which I do not), etc.) all have this in them, whether it is a stage persona or their actual selves.

rock on everyone.

[atari 2600]

Joan Jett effectively covered The Shondells' massively great "Crimson & Clover" too.

Back in the day, I saw her open for REO Speedwagon once & was able to get up on the front row for her band. It was cool as shit to see such a tiny woman rock that hard. After her set, some goons started pushing & shoving as they jockeyed for positon for REO, so we had to back it up.

& if anyone doesn't own a Chuck Berry compilation (Golden Decade I & II, 20 Golden Greats or The Great Twenty-Eight) you should go out & buy one of those today.

[Rob Instigator]

The Great 28 is a must for anyone even slightly interested in the origins and history of rock
without chuck berry's guitar there would be no beatles. lennon said so himself.

roll over beethoven, tell tchaikovski the news.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by thewall91

thank you for naming some black female musical recording artists. as to how many of them could be listed as "the most important females in rock history," i will give you tina turner. however, anyone's accidental omission of tina from this thread is more of a reflection of her "importance" to them than a symbol of their overt racism. that is more my point than on philosophizing about who is and is not rock.

but since you started it, here are some of my theories.

i did not know poly styrene was black. I apologize for my lack of punk knowledge on this matter.

sheila e can bang some drums but i doubt you're going to see her booked at
any rock club at any time in the future or past.

and tracey chapman is straight-up folk (though very good folk.)

cindy blackmon (from lenny kravitz band)? did you have to google that or is she really of high musical importance to you? that's like picking a backup singer to any solo act. sorry, but if she was that musically important, she'd be in a "band." it's not "lenny kravitz and his awesome band," it's lenny kravitz, who i'm sure has a rotating roster of musicians that play with him when he feels like it.


the song "black cat" by janet jackson, although it has a high suck factor, is heavily guitar-based and is a very rock dance song. i would still never call janet jackson a rock act; i would call her a dance act. genres exist for a reason. some artists can cross genres, but most artists still belong to one primary genre. call me a genrist, but not a racist.

i never said that these women were the "most important in rock music". you asked for someone to name you some and i did. we're not talking validity or subgenres or any of that shit, i just named some names. sheila e and that gal from lenny kravitz's band may not be your particular brand of rock (they're not mine either), but they still play rock music.

i never called you a racist. that was monsieur assblaster.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Charles Mingus who proved himself to be one of jazz' most experimental innovators & always led a great band thoughout his career.

don't forget that he was the first person to smash an instrument on stage. he is the original rock star.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

The Great 28 is a must for anyone even slightly interested in the origins and history of rock
without chuck berry's guitar there would be no beatles. lennon said so himself.

roll over beethoven, tell tchaikovski the news.

chuck berry is at the top of my list of rockers.

early in the mornin' i'm givin' you my warning. don't you step on my blue suede shoes. hey diddle diddle ima play my fiddle i ain't got nothing to lose.
-best lyric ever.

[val-holla-ing]

ain't it a shame is such a great song.

[soniknirve]

Robert Johnson was another great blues man. lots of great songs. check him out...

[val-holla-ing]

robert johnson?!?!?! who the fuck is he?

[soniknirve]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

robert johnson?!?!?! who the fuck is he?

you gotta be fucking kidding...

[krastian]

Sarcasm

[val-holla-ing]

total sarcasm.