[atsonicpark]

I'm not whining, your point is clearly invalid and off-the-cuff and has no sense of reality. I mean, I guess I could almost take it as a complement... whenever I talk about movies from now on, people should say "you sound like the IMDB!" Hey, I just used a big word.. "You sound like the encyclopedia!" If that's how you meant it, then I'm flattered. Thank you for noticing that I know what I'm talking about!

Though I do agree, there is nothing to "get" in any music. You either like it or you don't. There's nothing to understand, it's just sound.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I just listened to two tracks off it again, just to refresh my memory of this bloated hippie-stank fucking wank-a-thon, straight from the bowels of everything that sucked shit about music in 1968, tweedle-lee-dee stop start ZAPPA-esque LSD fried idiocy

Look, I'm sorry, but you like Phish, and if the above criticism doesn't apply to them moreso than the Magic Band, then I'm some sort of chocolate teapot.

[Rob Instigator]

I AM SO GLAD ZAPPA IS DEAD! Now he can only pollute the sonic spectrum through secondary means.....

[atsonicpark]

Glice, haha, sorry for being earnest.

I think I agree with you regarding Trout Mask in every respect. Even if someone doesn't like it, it's hard to deny its influence. It's ahead of its time, even today. And again I think you can trace math rock and many other genres to what it accomplished. Obviously, those genres would have developed eventually but Trout Mask was the first album to do that complex shit where everyone's playing in different time signatures and such -- except, you know, classical music.

It's just such a multi layered album full of so many amazing ideas.. I dunno. I love it. It's too long though, of course, I think it has to be. That's why it kind of overshadows all of Beefheart's better works ("Decals", "Doc", "Ice Cream").

I dunno, I don't want to wax poetic, Beefheart is my favorite musician of all time so I just feel very moved to write a lot about him at any opportunity.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people not liking him though.

[atsonicpark]

See, I don't really like Zappa's music; I LOVE the idea of it but most of his music doesn't really do anything for me. I still am glad it exists though.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Glice

Look, I'm sorry, but you like Phish, and if the above criticism doesn't apply to them moreso than the Magic Band, then I'm some sort of chocolate teapot.

apples and oranges you know..
what I like about phish is the ahility of each player to improvise extensively and at the drp of a hat, on any song, at any time, and to maintain a tight cohesiveness as a band. Phish records were nothing compared to listening to trey fucking wail on his guitar at th shows. maybe that is the way with beefheart, although I have never heard of anyone seeing him perform.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Trout Mask was the first album to do that complex shit where everyone's playing in different time signatures and such -- except, you know, classical music.
.

have you heard any JAZZ music from before 1960?
have you heard Brubeck?

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

See, I don't really like Zappa's music; I LOVE the idea of it but most of his music doesn't really do anything for me. I still am glad it exists though.

This encapsulates how I feel about Trout Mask and Beefheart and most prog in general.

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

See, I don't really like Zappa's music; I LOVE the idea of it but most of his music doesn't really do anything for me. I still am glad it exists though.

this is the most superfluous shit i've ever read but i actually agree with it.

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

your point is clearly invalid and off-the-cuff and has no sense of reality.

Though I do agree, there is nothing to "get" in any music. You either like it or you don't. There's nothing to understand, it's just sound.

1. you can't say that, it's my opinion and it makes sense to ME so fuck YOU.

2. yeah. i agree there too.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

apples and oranges you know..
what I like about phish is the ahility of each player to improvise extensively and at the drp of a hat, on any song, at any time, and to maintain a tight cohesiveness as a band. Phish records were nothing compared to listening to trey fucking wail on his guitar at th shows. maybe that is the way with beefheart, although I have never heard of anyone seeing him perform.

So what you're saying is that Phish do exactly what Beefheart does, but in time signatures and modes and rhythms that you understand and enjoy?

Hang on a second - I'll obviate that one. The above is a rhetorical question - as such, the point of it is that I am making a [n irrevocable] statement.

[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

have you heard any JAZZ music from before 1960?
have you heard Brubeck?

Yeah, of course. That isn't a ROCK band doing that type of shit though.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Glice, haha, sorry for being earnest.

I think I agree with you regarding Trout Mask in every respect. Even if someone doesn't like it, it's hard to deny its influence. It's ahead of its time, even today. And again I think you can trace math rock and many other genres to what it accomplished. Obviously, those genres would have developed eventually but Trout Mask was the first album to do that complex shit where everyone's playing in different time signatures and such -- except, you know, classical music.

It's just such a multi layered album full of so many amazing ideas.. I dunno. I love it. It's too long though, of course, I think it has to be. That's why it kind of overshadows all of Beefheart's better works ("Decals", "Doc", "Ice Cream").

I dunno, I don't want to wax poetic, Beefheart is my favorite musician of all time so I just feel very moved to write a lot about him at any opportunity.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people not liking him though.

I don't really agree with its influence so much, and there were records doing similar things prior, but strip off your emotional attachment to the record and I agree, 40,000%.

Funny thing with Trout Mask was that I didn't enjoy the record at all until I went through an Albert Ayler phase, then it all clicked in a lovely way.

[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

1. you can't say that, it's my opinion and it makes sense to ME so fuck YOU.

As long as it makes sense to you...

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Glice

So what you're saying is that Phish do exactly what Beefheart does, but in time signatures and modes and rhythms that you understand and enjoy?

Hang on a second - I'll obviate that one. The above is a rhetorical question - as such, the point of it is that I am making a [n irrevocable] statement.

Nope, time sigs don;t bother me. I played classical msuic for 8 years.
what beefheart does BORES me, it is an emotional reactiona nd no matter how much I tell myself rationally that it is important or it is good or that I am missing something, the emotional reaction is still deadly boredom.

[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by Glice

I don't really agree with its influence so much, and there were records doing similar things prior, but strip off your emotional attachment to the record and I agree, 40,000%.

Funny thing with Trout Mask was that I didn't enjoy the record at all until I went through an Albert Ayler phase, then it all clicked in a lovely way.

What rock records were doing similiar things prior? I'd really like to hear them. I try not to let emotional attachments get in the way with what I think of an album overall; hence why I think bands have greater albums than the ones I often list as my personal favorites.

Trout Mask gives me a headache and has for years. I hate the production on it. But I've always thought it was interesting -- took me a few months to LOVE. I've always liked the spoken word songs the best actually.

[atsonicpark]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Nope, time sigs don;t bother me. I played classical msuic for 8 years.
what beefheart does BORES me, it is an emotional reactiona nd no matter how much I tell myself rationally that it is important or it is good or that I am missing something, the emotional reaction is still deadly boredom.

John French's drumming alone is amongst the least-boring things I've ever heard in a rock band.

But to each their own...

I will tell you that all of his albums sound a lot different from each other and Trout Mask is not one of my favorites. I'm confident that if you gave "Doc at the Radar Station" a chance, you'd love it. It's almost a punk record at times! Actually, thinking about it now, you can hear a lot of Minutemen in it (which probably explains why Mike Watt covered "dirty blue gene" years later)...

[atsonicpark]

http://rapidshare.com/files/70594450...Radar_Ston.rar

Come on, Rob, for me?

If you hate it, I'll let you neg-rep me till the crows come home!

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

http://rapidshare.com/files/70594450...Radar_Ston.rar

Come on, Rob, for me?

If you hate it, I'll let you neg-rep me till the crows come home!

I am going to soak this up with a clear mind and an open ear OK?

[atsonicpark]

gd

[Rob Instigator]

cuz the cantank has the ability to play the moonlight sonata solely through the delicate use of underwater quiffs

ohhh, you should hear those soothing melodies bubble up from the seat of all creation