[MellySingsDoom]

SuchFriends - ahem, it's "Untermenschen" by the way. All this was pure bigotry used by the Nazis to cover up what was really going on in Germany at that time. And Germans voted for Nazis because they believed that they would be fed and clothed, and "looked after" by them, as opposed to democracy. This is of course irrelevant to the discussion, so....why bring the goddamn Nazis into a thread on the US elections?

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

you're welcome.

actually, thank sarah palin for motivating me to vote against the complete demise of america.


fucking bitch.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

actually, thank sarah palin for motivating me to vote against the complete demise of america.


fucking bitch.

now just put your money where your mouth is

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/...source=mainnav

haha, that may be pushing it, i know-- but i had to try

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

SuchFriends - ahem, it's "Untermenschen" by the way. All this was pure bigotry used by the Nazis to cover up what was really going on in Germany at that time. And Germans voted for Nazis because they believed that they would be fed and clothed, and "looked after" by them, as opposed to democracy. This is of course irrelevant to the discussion, so....why bring the goddamn Nazis into a thread on the US elections?

because american supposed democracy and government is based upon the format and schematics of the Nazi supposed democracy and government, and further, it is highly relevant, because people blindly vote for American politicians believing the same things, but the politicians do not help americans. Shit as many Americans depend on assistance from Food Banks as do SubSaharan africans! Is that the land of the free? bullshit!

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

now just put your money where your mouth is

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/...source=mainnav

haha, that may be pushing it, i know-- but i had to try

no, i like him. i'm going to donate a hefty sum of money and be pissed if he doesn't win.

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

what I am talking about is social revolution towards unity. Voting is precisely the opposite of this. And further, I am talking about organizing to to real good and take real power back. This was the true success of the 1960s, because openly and honestly people did not even have the options of voting, and so they did what they could themselves because they had NOT FAITH in the BRUTALLY CORRUPT AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. Well my friends, it is the SAME GOVERNMENT TODAY as back then...

Not voting, I want people to become involved in all the problems directly, not vote for some other dude to take care of them. WE OURSELVES need to go into the volunteering, go to the hospitals, the schools, and parks, the malls, the old-folks homes, the homless shelters, the refugee settlement agencies, the welfare/social security offices, we need to all organize together and each one pick up the slack, rather then continue on with four more years of "i'm sure that someone I voted for will take care of all this shit everywhere, instead of me actually doing it..."

voting is a myth, you actually have to go out there and do something!

What you are wishing for is a kind of "local" anarchism - again, fine in theory, but it would never work in practice.

I would say that there are plenty of people here who do, quietly, help out in ways that you discuss. People who give a shit about their local communites and do take part in making their little piece of this planet a better place, both for themselves and others. However, we live in a democratic system, and voting is the way that our democratic "rights" are exercised. Now again: short of persuading the entire goddamn electorate to not vote, what practical, achievable solutions do you have as an alternative to voting? The age of mass protest is over, and the State is incredibly effective at clamping down on that now...

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

no, i like him. i'm going to donate a hefty sum of money and be pissed if he doesn't win.

the mrs. and i are helping with his campaign here in nuevo mexico.

no worries, obama is winning-- it will be hard but it will happen-- just like w/ hellary.

but yeah, donate! gotta pay for those counterattack ads somehow.

[MellySingsDoom]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

because american supposed democracy and government is based upon the format and schematics of the Nazi supposed democracy and government

You're conflating two totally unrelated points, to basically say "US Government = Nazis". Come on, sir, you can do better than that, surely?

[Cantankerous]

well they basically are fucking nazis but...


LET'S CHANGE THAT!

[MellySingsDoom]

Can UK citizens donate to a "Vote Obama/Fuck The Republicans" fund, or are us Limeys strictly verboten?

Yeah, Cantankers and !@#$%! have got the right attitude. So there.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

What you are wishing for is a kind of "local" anarchism - again, fine in theory, but it would never work in practice.

Now again: short of persuading the entire goddamn electorate to not vote, what practical, achievable solutions do you have as an alternative to voting? The age of mass protest is over, and the State is incredibly effective at clamping down on that now...

no, I did not say local anarchism, that is probably as much the opposite of what I am suggesting as is representative democracy.

I didn't invent the world, I just live in. The reality is that the methods I have already proposed, solid community and individual initiative and direct action, have already been proven in a hundred instances across the globe and across this past century to be the only successful alternative, in fact, the only way any of the real benefits of our so-called civilization manage to get accomplished is through individuals, not governments

. If the age of mass protest and public organization is over, then we are all truly fucked, and should seek shelter in hiding, however, I have much more faith in the good of humanity than that. We as a species have overcome enough of our own self-induced bullshit, mass slavery and genocide every ten years for thousands of years of human history, and yet, here we are, and truthfully there is more good then bad, so I am confident in the victory, but it will not come from supposed democracy which is really just complacency.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

Can UK citizens donate to a "Vote Obama/Fuck The Republicans" fund, or are us Limeys strictly verboten?

you are, but i heard of this irish bloke who showed up as a volunteer because he figured this was important for the whole world. so you can volunteer-- you just can't give money.

[Cantankerous]

even if things don't improve that much under obama, at least we won't have another dick for prez and a cunt for VP

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom

You're conflating two totally unrelated points, to basically say "US Government = Nazis". Come on, sir, you can do better than that, surely?

I dont need to, the police dogs speak fucking German, a descendant of Prescott Bush is still in the White House, and Von Braun remains a national hero for building the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile... so I'd say the verdict is in, yes, most definitaly "US government= Nazis"

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

even if things don't improve that much under obama, at least we won't have another dick for prez and a cunt for VP

ummm, yes we will. How are you so sure that Obama is not just another dick? cuz he says so? thats really reassuring..

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

ummm, yes we will. How are you so sure that Obama is not just another dick? cuz he says so? thats really reassuring..

he reminds me of bill clinton, who i can't help but like. he's quite personable. mccain is not. at all. i'm allowed to have whatever opinion i want REGARDLESS of how much hippie bullshit you spew in my direction. lesser of two evils. fuck you. quit being so fucking "righteous". etc.

[MellySingsDoom]

SuchFriends - look what happened in Tibet, China and Burma when the masses organised. And in Ukraine and Serbia, the short-term gains were soon reversed. Also, look at the effect that the UK anti-war movememt had on our Government in going to war with Iraq. I'm afraid that I can only concur that the age of "mass movement" change is dead.

!@#$%! - Respect due to the Irish guy.

EDIT - Such Friends - I'm sorry, but a few factoids maketh not a "Nazi" Government. What the US and UK ihave s not fascism, but a supreme form of capitalism. Again, I find the whole "Nazi" thing spurious, and ultimately irrelevant to what happening in the world right now.

[PAULYBEE2656]

go on the irish!!!!!!

[terriblecanyons]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

ummm, yes we will. How are you so sure that Obama is not just another dick? cuz he says so? thats really reassuring..

First of all, because he's not a republican.
Second of all, he doesn't consider the middle class to be people who make around 5mil/yr like McSame does.
Thirdly, he actually acknowledges gays and lesbians as real people, and is pro-choice and anti-war.

Do you REALLY want another 8 years in Iraq? All in favor, say 'aye'...

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by terriblecanyons

First of all, because he's not a republican.
Second of all, he doesn't consider the middle class to be people who make around 5mil/yr like McSame does.
Thirdly, he actually acknowledges gays and lesbians as real people, and is pro-choice and anti-war.

Do you REALLY want another 8 years in Iraq? All in favor, say 'aye'...

how about war with iran? cuz that's what mcsame is looking for. total and permanent war. cuz he's, you know, a "war hero".

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by PAULYBEE2656

go on the irish!!!!!!

YEAH!

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

how about war with iran? cuz that's what mcsame is looking for. total and permanent war. cuz he's, you know, a "war hero".

if he wants to get shot again, i'll be waiting on a rooftop...