[Rob Instigator]

the unicorn has a pre-cum puddle below him,. from watching too much Keeping Up With Kardashians.

[Rob Instigator]

the parable of the garden of eden contains MANY references.
the creation of eve was intended to keep man from "loving" the animals. read bout it.
The eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is about maturation as a species, as humans instead of animals. Humans know right from wrong, and choose to do either. animals just do what feels good at the moment, whether that is eat, fuck, run, or kill.
The story of Cain and Abel is an allegory describing how humans should value each other's lives, as if we are all related. the original CRIME, killing another human.

remember that the bible was written by and for scholars, intelligent, literate people in a world of ill-informed, chaotic, illiterate people.
the parables in the bible are not meant for easy consumption by the stupid.
that is what scientology and Republican conservatism is for.
ha!
They are meant for reflection, and insight.
no one wrote down anything jesus said. his teachings ahd to be transcribed as allegory and story to get his points accross. the earliest of the gopspels was written over 100 years after Christ's death.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Yes you're saying the Fall was a fall from being animal? Wasn't the Fall the introduction of sin to humans (sexual awareness etc)? So if anything isn't it the reverse of evolution in that in the Fall man became more animalistic?



I think parables if anything would make it harder for people to understand. It's the ancient equivalent of nowadays assuming stupid people are capable literary critics.

It was not really a fall if you look at it the right way. It was a chance at an after life versus death. With sin we were also given the power to choose. Animals do not choose they act only on survival instict. So we rise up and choose our own fate.

He compared the kingdom of God to things they could touch and see and relate to which would make it easier for someone to grasp then talking about something they have no knowledge of. Most of the people that listened to Jesus could not read and had not read the old testiment. They were also kept on the outskirts of the temple.

I don't know why you'd have to be a literary critic to understand a parable. They make a lot more sense to me then the old testament. It's not a poem.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the parable of the garden of eden contains MANY references.
the creation of eve was intended to keep man from "loving" the animals. read bout it.
The eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is about maturation as a species, as humans instead of animals. Humans know right from wrong, and choose to do either. animals just do what feels good at the moment, whether that is eat, fuck, run, or kill.
The story of Cain and Abel is an allegory describing how humans should value each other's lives, as if we are all related. the original CRIME, killing another human.

remember that the bible was written by and for scholars, intelligent, literate people in a world of ill-informed, chaotic, illiterate people.
the parables in the bible are not meant for easy consumption by the stupid.
that is what scientology and Republican conservatism is for.
ha!
They are meant for reflection, and insight.
no one wrote down anything jesus said. his teachings ahd to be transcribed as allegory and story to get his points accross. the earliest of the gopspels was written over 100 years after Christ's death.

Rep ya if i could

[Rob Instigator]

remember, Jesus got killed by the people in power (rich established Jews and the Roman conquerors) for espousing a complete destruction of not just the civil but the spiritual status quo. motherfucker tried to stir shit up and they chopped him down, as anyone who tries to upset the status quo seems to be, unless they are very lucky.

those in power will do anything within their power to see that the circumstances by which they became rich an powerful do not change.

hence our country being ripped apart (usa) by assholes who benefit from the immense shitloads of money being fed into insurance copmpanies and the current healthcare system.

[SONIC GAIL]

Jesus was
PUNK

[Glice]

Why do people always say 'Jesus was punk' rather than 'Punks are Christians'? It's odd that the inference always comes down on one side rather than another, isn't it?

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

It was not really a fall if you look at it the right way. It was a chance at an after life versus death. With sin we were also given the power to choose. Animals do not choose they act only on survival instict. So we rise up and choose our own fate.

But if was a good thing why does God tell Adam and Eve NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge?

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

He compared the kingdom of God to things they could touch and see and relate to which would make it easier for someone to grasp then talking about something they have no knowledge of. Most of the people that listened to Jesus could not read and had not read the old testiment. They were also kept on the outskirts of the temple.

If the meaning of the parables was just told to them in simple commands then surely that would be easier to understand than the parables? And if the these simple commands were things they "had no knowledge" of then why would the parables be relevant either as they are giving these commands/advice but in a different for.

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I don't know why you'd have to be a literary critic to understand a parable. They make a lot more sense to me then the old testament. It's not a poem.

That was analogy as a parable is open to interpretation and is going to be harder to understand than simply being told "do this, do that". A parable requires a higher level of intellectual sophistication rather than a lower level.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

Rep ya if i could

But he's kind of agreeing with me in that he says the Bible wasn't for the stupid masses and was too difficult for them to understand which is the complete opposite of what you saying, which was that it was written in way so the stupid people would understand.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

Jesus was
PUNK

Yeah "the meek shall inherit the earth" and "turn the other cheek" very much reflects the punk ethic.

[Rob Instigator]

the knowledge of good and evil is not inherently good nor is it inhrentl;y bad and that is part of the wisdom, that with mature humanity, nothing is all good, or all bad, and the knowledge of good and evil must be used when making every decision.

parables are giving wisdom, not instructions. commands give instructions.

the ten commandments for example, were intended solely as instructions by which a very large (several thousand) group of drifter nomad people with different backgrounds (though all hebrews) could survive and not kill each other as they mad their way through adesert for 40 years.
the 10 commandments were never intended to be a guide fo all people in all places to live by.

in the allegory of the bible, the new testament superceds the old ten commandments with just one sentence. The goldn rule

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the knowledge of good and evil is not inherently good nor is it inhrentl;y bad and that is part of the wisdom, that with mature humanity, nothing is all good, or all bad, and the knowledge of good and evil must be used when making every decision.

parables are giving wisdom, not instructions. commands give instructions.

the ten commandments for example, were intended solely as instructions by which a very large (several thousand) group of drifter nomad people with different backgrounds (though all hebrews) could survive and not kill each other as they mad their way through adesert for 40 years.
the 10 commandments were never intended to be a guide fo all people in all places to live by.

in the allegory of the bible, the new testament superceds the old ten commandments with just one sentence. The goldn rule

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

This isn't relevant. Don't change the subject. We're not talking about what is being said (well, earlier I was) but how it was said.

[Rob Instigator]

what's a lurker care bout what's relevant?

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Lurker

But he's kind of agreeing with me in that he says the Bible wasn't for the stupid masses and was too difficult for them to understand which is the complete opposite of what you saying, which was that it was written in way so the stupid people would understand.

I was refering to the first part of the response if you wish to know why. And I rep alot of people who disagree with me...cause i must have made them think if they took the time to respond.

I did not use the term STUPID PEOPLE I used dumb (meaning those that were held back from the knowledge of the temple and there traditions because of thier situation). I was refering to the excluded parts of the society whom had been held back unjustly from enlightenment.

The bible is one of the best pieces of literature in the history of Humanity. I am not denying the fact that it is a book that cannot be simplified. I was only refering to a question from the bible.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


That is what I meant but I am not as scholarly as Matthew was when he recorded it so i guess my point did not come across right.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by Lurker

But if was a good thing why does God tell Adam and Eve NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge?
Because he knows that they will anyway. God loves a sinner who has chosen him after tasting sin because the love has not been forced. Therefore sin had to be created for a choice to be given.

Example in the prodigal son parable or just listen to the Rolling Stones song if you need a recap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9nvdgQNY8o

If the meaning of the parables was just told to them in simple commands then surely that would be easier to understand than the parables? And if the these simple commands were things they "had no knowledge" of then why would the parables be relevant either as they are giving these commands/advice but in a different for.

I can't put any better than rob "parables are giving wisdom, not instructions. commands give instructions.

the ten commandments for example, were intended solely as instructions by which a very large (several thousand) group of drifter nomad people with different backgrounds (though all hebrews) could survive and not kill each other as they mad their way through adesert for 40 years.
the 10 commandments were never intended to be a guide fo all people in all places to live by.

in the allegory of the bible, the new testament superceds the old ten commandments with just one sentence. The goldn rule"


Knowledge=enlightenment see my last post


That was analogy as a parable is open to interpretation and is going to be harder to understand than simply being told "do this, do that". A parable requires a higher level of intellectual sophistication rather than a lower level.

It is not about being told what to do. It is understanding what is right and choosing to do it.


The smart ones have more trouble believing than the dumb ones. They depend on their own superiority rather than looking outside of themselves.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

I was refering to the first part of the response if you wish to know why. And I rep alot of people who disagree with me...cause i must have made them think if they took the time to respond.

I did not use the term STUPID PEOPLE I used dumb (meaning those that were held back from the knowledge of the temple and there traditions because of thier situation). I was refering to the excluded parts of the society whom had been held back unjustly from enlightenment.

I know you didn't, I said that Rob said that and therefore was disagreeing with you.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

It is not about being told what to do. It is understanding what is right and choosing to do it.


The smart ones have more trouble believing than the dumb ones. They depend on their own superiority rather than looking outside of themselves.

So you're telling me God tells me people not to do things only so they will do those things and then have to suffer from the pain of regret...yes...that makes sense.

[Glice]

You'd rather get fucked than have eternal redemption? What a cunt!

[Lurker]

I believe in a god that rewards atheists and punishes religious people.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Lurker

I believe in a god that rewards atheists and punishes religious people.

I have the problem that, while religious sorts often don't help themselves, atheists often have the most weary, half-baked notions of what it is they're opposing. It's not that the content of atheists' arguments are wrong, they just tend to miss the point of what religion and spirituality is and does. What really pisses me off is that the image of poisonous, vile, literalist Americans like the Westboro Baptists entirely distorts the popular image of the complete remainder of religion, or at least Christianity.