[whorefrost]

you see?

[khchris(original)]

people who know both zappa and captain beefheart extensively will always choose zappa over captain beefheart.

[whorefrost]

oh, you've conducted surveys about this, have you?

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by khchris(original)

people who know both zappa and captain beefheart extensively will always choose zappa over captain beefheart.

Says who?Can you provide extensive proof for this sort of statement?

[khchris(original)]

Sorry to break your hearts guys, but it doesn't sounds like Captain wrote much of the music at all:

and, of course, beefheart has always claimed that all 'trout mask replica' numbers were worked out by himself in one eight and a half hour stretch. and that he wrote them on piano without ever having previously touched the instrument….

"right. true. he had never played the piano before and he didn't then. it was eight hours of this: (simulates chopstick keyboard playing). and then níne mónths of the band putting together the music.

the music was put together by the band. not by him. it was to-tal-ly arranged by the band. at one point he said: 'here, play this chord to me'. and there happen to be ten notes in the chord and i play guitar, which has six strings, right? so i said: 'hey, it's a little hard to do.' and he said: 'well, you'd better come up with the other four strings'."


Gee, i wonder if this is why the magic bands performs without Captain Beefheart nowadays???



"as a lyricist he is one of the best i have ever heard in my life. he's not a musician…. he got credit for doing a lot of music that he never did. it came from the band…."

[khchris(original)]

Somebody's so scared about the poll that they're willing to log in under a troll just to cook poll numbers.


I really could care less if i was the only person.


Fact is fact: captain beefheart is just a poet, but Zappa was worlds ahead of him. Without Zappa, there would be no captain beefheart.

[toxic johnny]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

He who shouts the loudest has never been heard.Sorry.

Amen.

If you (Khchris) calmed down a little and all of your opinions weren't so black and white and tiresome then I might... just might respond to your distortion of the truth.

Right now you look really foolish.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by toxic johnny

Amen.

If you (Khchris) calmed down a little and all of your opinions weren't so black and white and tiresome then I might... just might respond to your distortion of the truth.

Right now you look really foolish.

That's nice.


I think you're afraid to respond to anything i say in fear of being wrong. Yes, it's better you don't respond.

[porkmarras]

Mental health might be an issue here(and i hope so because that's the only thing that would condone such rubbish).

[Toilet & Bowels]

Splutter! Stammer! RAGE!



repeat

[toxic johnny]

Agreed...

For the record I voted for Beefheart.

[jon boy]

[quote=whorefrost]you're wrong most of the time

just ignore him everyone else does.

[TheMadcapLaughs]

its okay..... i read something different. its true, beefheart had no idea how to play any instrument or music. but have you ever played the piano? you dont need much technique or prior knowledge to bang on some keys untill you find something that sounds good to you. this is what he did at least for the entire trout mask replica album although i think he did it for all. It's true, he didnt tell the guitarist how to barre the chord from the piano he was playing. But he did make up all the notes being played. He made them practice the album for like 9 months. He wouldnt even let them leave the fucking house. It's insane I know. So when they went in to record the album, they recorded it in a fucking day or so because they had it so spot on. Zappa just pressed record really.

If I remember I'll see if I can find the article where the ACTUAL memebers of the band talk about their experience.

[krastian]

I voted for Zappa, but I think everyone could have guessed that....to me it's not really close. The Captain rules though.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by TheMadcapLaughs

its okay..... i read something different. its true, beefheart had no idea how to play any instrument or music. but have you ever played the piano? you dont need much technique or prior knowledge to bang on some keys untill you find something that sounds good to you. this is what he did at least for the entire trout mask replica album although i think he did it for all. It's true, he didnt tell the guitarist how to barre the chord from the piano he was playing. But he did make up all the notes being played. He made them practice the album for like 9 months. He wouldnt even let them leave the fucking house. It's insane I know. So when they went in to record the album, they recorded it in a fucking day or so because they had it so spot on. Zappa just pressed record really.

If I remember I'll see if I can find the article where the ACTUAL memebers of the band talk about their experience.

oddly enough, one of the songs on trout mask replica was probably 95% zappa with the only contribution of captain was his lyrics recorded through a phone, which evidently was ZAPPA'S IDEA, not captain.


I would say captain was responsible for about 40% of the album with the magic band being the other 40% and i think a good 20% goes to Zappa, his influence on Captain Beefheart, which stems from when they were teenagers, and Zappa's production which made Trout Mask Replica so unique. i don't think TMR would've been the same with anyone else producing it.

[Lurker]

Zappa was the one who pursuaded Beefheart to sing in the first place.

[khchris(original)]

all we know is that captain was responsible for the lyrics.

anything more than his vocals is highly questionable.


With Zappa, you knew he was the mastermind behind all his solo efforts, that will never be questioned.

I get the feeling most here just don't know about zappa, mothers, and how ahead of his time he really was, great albums like apostrophe, but are kinda "bandwagon" jumpers because zappa maybe too "popular" or that alot of kids probably were more interested in beefheart because he was more obscure.

zappa is famous because he was a musical genius. Captain beefheart isn't.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by krastian

I voted for Zappa, but I think everyone could have guessed that....to me it's not really close. The Captain rules though.

I've been a huge fan of both for decades, but it wasn't until i started understanding about the musicianship and the complexity of Zappa's work where i really really appreciated him. but, not all of us are as into complexity and pushing creativity as some of us.

it's really no contest. beefheart was fucking amazing, but over the years, alot of people, as well as Zappa himself, questioned the integrity of captain beefheart. his own band wants nothing to do with him.

it's like saying "Jello Biafra wrote the dead kennedy's music" when he didn't at all. he may have had a hand in composition trying to fit his part into the band, but he didn't really do anything with the music.

[TheMadcapLaughs]

www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=48159

Okay, hopefully you have an account so you can get to it. It's a shitload of reading but its very informative since it comes straight from the mouth of the musicians. Beefheart may be a crazy dictator with his band. But he did write MOST of the music.

[Glice]

Tuppence: Analaguous to ME Smith, Beefheart wrote either lots or little or none of the music, but 'twas under the rubric of his invention that it took flight; although the magic band are probably under-credited, I'm not as interested in their stuff sans Vilet and I'm very much not in a minority in that.

Zappa doesn't interest me in the slightest, and I'm not a rabid Beefheart fan - I don't find Beefheart annoying, and, thankfully, Beefheart doesn't have an utterly daunting discography that smacks of lack of quality control.

But what then is a pop song? Surely 'tis but the synergy of words and music? Whenceforth the priveleging of nought but its partitions - sound/ words/ music/ 'soul'/ other hollow platitudes? Are we seriously considering an analysis of Zappa/ Beefheart under serious musical discussion? While they are not entirely exempt, surely there are better places to follow that dialogue? Surely we are suffocated by a miscegenation of a dialogue which threatens to engulf the genuine worth of 'rock' music, in all its myriad beauty?