[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

If I happen to like some corporate pop artist, should I refrain myself from listening to them just because they are making music for money?

No, listen to what you like, but that doesn't really alter whether band X sold out or not.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

No, listen to what you like, but that doesn't really alter whether band X sold out or not.

okay, but in that precise case i was talking about said "credibility", which would imply some artists should be "believed" and others shouldn't.

[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by flophousefloozie

I thought the term "selling out" was done. I thought we were over that.

If someone can make alot of money doing what you're "passionate" about, good on them! What is wrong with that, if it doesn't ruin the quality?

Get bent dumbass

[infinitemusic]

Originally Posted by DeadDiscoDildo

The term sell out is fucking retarded. You want to make music because you want to make money.

You either make good music or shitty music.

By saying "sell out" you treat music with an immature view, likes its this some important thing that will put food in starving kids mouths and if you do it differently or make more money, you're just being a piece of shit.

This isn't even remotely coherent, fyi

[acousticrock87]

I don't know about selling out because that makes assumptions about all kinds of things, but money certainly makes it obvious who sucks and who doesn't.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by infinitemusic

This isn't even remotely coherent, fyi

You can't even begin to accept an opinion or a certain view that isn't yours, fyi.

~Jeremy~

[scott v]

fyi, who cares?

[flophousefloozie]

Originally Posted by infinitemusic

Get bent dumbass

Do you feel better now? Sometimes it helps to throw a little fit, and shit your pants.

[CHOUT]

Misfits without Danzig seemed pretty wack(y) to me.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by CHOUT

Misfits without Danzig seemed pretty wack(y) to me.

they're two totally different bands -- I mean different styles/sounds. But they're not bad either. THey shoudl have just gotten a different name. The New Misfits or something.

[narlus]

Originally Posted by Dead-Air

Yeah, but even her 2nd album was already shit.

i still think that Guyville should haev been edited down to a strong 12" EP.

or even just a kickass single (stratford-on-guy b/w glory)

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

okay, but in that precise case i was talking about said "credibility", which would imply some artists should be "believed" and others shouldn't.

Believe whatever you want

[dazedcola]

Originally Posted by The Earl Of Slander

A thousand fucking times yes. This is the first thing that came to mind. To go from, say, this and this, to this and this, in what is pretty obviously a straight up cynical cash grab, just really makes me sad. I mean that. Like literally upset. I know that's stupid, and it doesn't diminish those early records, and if the artist is happy then who cares, and whatever, but damn...

Those early recordings, Exile In Guyville and the Girlysound tapes really, still shine for me as some of most unique and generally fantastic work in 90s indie. So raw and personal and eloquent and just... I love them so much. And then the records drop off pretty quickly as she goes for the more commercial sound, and then you get to the fucking s/t record, and it is just truly awful soulless music. That fall outstrips the worst falls in musical history for me. Even on the shittiest records by like Dylan or Elvis Costello or Van Morrison or whatever songwriter with rough patches you can think of (and there are some TERRIBLE records there), there's at least this sense that they're trying, or if not, then at least it's personal to them, or was where their interests were, or just SOMETHING. But those last two Phair records, I can't even bear to listen to. It just seems like she has 100% submerged everything true about her in this purely boring, cookie cutter bland pop shit, and I really can't do it.

Ah well, off to listen to the Girlysound tapes, and none of that will matter.

omg thank you so much for posting that early link! I've never heard her demos before and they sound so much better than the album produced versions. It strikes such a huge chord in the more honest, intimate setting. Im downloading this immediately when I get back home.

[chicka]

A perfect example is Journey great guitarist in Neal Schon and their first three albums which I enjoyed went nowhere. Change stride bring in a keyboardist and Steve Perry to sing and write those god awful ballads and away we go to Arena and stardom. Great for them so what for me I lost a band I enjoyed so what there were plenty more out there to choose from.

[demonrail666]

I've only heard Journey retrospectively but I can totally see that, Look into the Future in particular I think is a really good album, now completely overshadowed by what came after. Not the end of the world, but a shame nonetheless.

[Diesel]

An old thread but this just has to be said..

Beck

Enjoyed the odd song way back when and was never a big fan or owt. But stone the fucking crows this guy has surely threw his hat into the ring for the crown of biggest cunting sell out ever. The fact his music makes EA's Fifa videogame soundtrack now should tell you everything really.

On a grammatical note: idioms yea!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Diesel

An old thread but this just has to be said..

Beck

Enjoyed the odd song way back when and was never a big fan or owt. But stone the fucking crows this guy has surely threw his hat into the ring for the crown of biggest cunting sell out ever. The fact his music makes EA's Fifa videogame soundtrack now should tell you everything really.

On a grammatical note: idioms yea!

Hmm. Not sure he's a sell-out. He just got lame as all hell. I don't think he's ever really pursued mega-stardom. He just turned into James Taylor.

I love the song he did with Kim a couple years ago, "Deftiended." That was good. But I haven't liked an album of his all the way through since ... well... Odelay, which still sounds pretty good today.

[pepper_green]

I like "sellout" Beck better than "take me serious" Beck. he's well past his Bowie 80's popstar faze so his best career move should just be to sell out more.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

I like "sellout" Beck better than "take me serious" Beck. he's well past his Bowie 80's popstar faze so his best career move should just be to sell out more.

I LOVE Odelay. It's just a great album, and it's great all the way through.
- I like Mellow Gold very much, but it's gotten old and I've had to "re-discover" it like twenty times now, and currently it's old again.
- I like The Information as a whole quite a bit... his last good "album"... but none of it is specifically great

That's all I'm inclined to listen to anymore. I don't actively dislike anything except for Modern Guilt and thatosy recent one... Morning View? The one that eats shit and is boring as hell. I like parts of Mindite Vultures very much, others not so much. Same with Mutations.
I loved One Foot in the Grave when I was young and indie-fried, but I haven't listened to it in a long time and have no real desire to. Some of Guero is good... couple songs.. most of it is shit Odelay rehash. Sea Change I can appreciate for its Bowie-isms and the ballsiness of the transition, but I don't think it was a genius offering by any means.

Odelay was the Paul's Boutique of the '90s. Gotta love it, really, no matter how much shit came later. It's a better record than 99% of artists make in their entire career, and it's one of the best albums of the alternative era. I can't hate on a dude who made a record like that, and who bent David Geffen over his knee and spanked his ass to take full advantage of the record deal and the increased popularity.

Also, there's Beck's connections with SY. He put a bit of EJST&NS into Odelay, and followed their lead a lot in his way in the mid-'90s. And he collaborated with Kim, and he did the split "Pay no Mind"/"Green light" single. So, there's that.

I DO think that he could have been more like SY, and helped other artists in his orbit get discovered, but he was too insular and single minded.

There are worse sellouts. Look at Modest Mouse. One of the best bands in the world crapped out bouncy feel-good pop after a decade of making meth'd out indie death guitar awesomeness about Trailor Trash and the lack of a God. And they became HUGE for a while. Fuck that man. They crapped all over themselves and never redeemed shit.

[Severian]

Dave Grohl is a pretty big sellout too.