[Better_Than_Deux]

Originally Posted by ni'k

yeah its definitely better to just leave the medicines with them and hope they will stay there intact and not be lost, cos in the memorys of small tribes is definitely a good place to store that information. and yeah, it would be so much better if we paid them off with loads of money they could really use in their tribal situation and all.

...its already seemed to work for the last 1000 or so years.

they should be able to get some sort of reward for what they've done to advance medicine in western culture.

[ni'k]

that it has is good, but whats the garuantee it will be around in another 1000? and why not now, everywhere. so it doesnt get lost, so it can be improved, so we can learn more.

they dont need a reward. some of those tribes are disgusted at you if they give you a gift as a reciprocation for a gift they give you. they understand this to be your way of saying "i don't want to join you, so here is a gift to cancel out your gesture". when they give you a gift in the first place that is there way of saying, here, come join us, you are one of us now. they are inducting you into access of the communal property. they do this and often times the westerners will feel a bit guilty about getting a free weaved basket from these people who obviously spent a long time making it, so they will try to give them something in return.

of course they should be helped out, but not necessarily "rewarded", its not like its more important to do that than get the information they have available for more and more people. a "reward" could help to get new info out of them, but you have to be careful apply our cultural standards to them.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the sad and deeply scary realization that our Earth may indeed be the only planet in the entire galaxy that has the means to support life forms needs to be explored SNIP

Rob, this assumes 'life as we know it" - could be a silicon based lifeform. Could be some sort we can't even imagine. I don't think we can really conceive higher dimensions.

However, the impliction to me of what you state is 1. its an hyper statistical improbably random situation or 2. it is a carefully controlled situation.

[Rob Instigator]

of coruse this assumes life as "we" know it. How are we supposed to find life we do not know to exist?
(yet?)

but you are right.
the implication of this is indded either that it is such a random luck of the draw as to preclude anything similar eer happening again, OR
that life as it has developed on Earth is the result of sentient involvement of some sort, whether that happened when we went from single cells to multi-cellular organisms, or when humans arose is all guesses.

[pbradley]

Originally Posted by ploesj

my mother told me a lot of crap to explain stuff she didn't know about.

 

[ploesj]

that's exactly what i was thinking, but she wasn't as creative

[SonikJesus]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the sad and deeply scary realization that our Earth may indeed be the only planet in the entire galaxy that has the means to support life forms needs to be explored. If you truly study what caused life to occurr, and what myriad of things had to go just so, just right, for basic life forms to appear, one ould truly understand why people call life a miracle.

just a small sampling of the checklist needed to have Earth be what it is today.

a stable star around which to revolve
a stable planetary system where gravitational perturbations do not distort the Earth's stable orbit
a planetary system far removed from the center of our galaxy, where supermassive black holes, and periodic supernovas and star formation bathe everything in highly intense radiation, which is deadly to life
Large giant planets to attract and " clean up" the debris within the solar system. This allows the earth to develope without constant asteroid collissions.
the perfect distance from the star, where the rays warm the planet but are not powerful enough to strip the planet of it's atmosphere.
A large and stable sattelite/moon rotating arund the earth at such a perfect rate and speed that it balances out any small perturbations in the Earth's rotation, creating stability and semi-stable weather patterns. Hell, the lunar tides may have been the catalyst for the first actual cell formation as the waves crashed on shores throughout the planet.
an atmosphere composed of mostly nitrogen, which keeps the sun's lethal radiation from destroying life.
liquid oceans of water, which are extremely unlikely. If the Earth's temperature ever dips a few degrees too low or the earth moves just a bit too far from the sun all water would be ice, and life could not flourish. If the temperature gets a few degrees too high or the planet's orbit is just a bit too close to the star, then all the liquid water would be vaporized, and if the atmosphere is gone then the water would do what it did on Mars, which is to turn to rust as it reacts with the soils.


These are just a very minute criteria for a planet to have life like ours. very sall. this does not evn go into life itself.

frankly, the odds are most favorable that the Earth is the single planet in our galaxy of billions of stars that is capable of supporting life for what amounts to more than 3 BILLION YEARS.

I would find it preposterous to assume that this nearly unfthomable sequence of events can unfold regularly in our galaxy.
If anything, eafch galaxy out there may have but one planet around but one star system that can harbor life as the Earth can, allowing it to florusih and to create ever more complex and intelligent creatures.

if this is the case then we humans are ALONE, or as alone as can possibly be.

travel between stars is ridiculous. travel between ends of the galaxy is nearly unfathomable. Now, travel between the unimaginable recesses of deep space betrween galaxies? Nigh impossible to imagine.

we could very well be alone, and therefore we are responsible for caring for and propagating the seeds of life. I feel humans mission is to spread life, even bacterial or microorganism life, to any place we can. we may very well be the FIRST advanced civilization in the entire Universe, all hocuspocus bullshit aside. that is a very real possibility

This is why I like you, Rob.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the sad and deeply scary realization that our Earth may indeed be the only planet in the entire galaxy that has the means to support life forms needs to be explored. If you truly study what caused life to occurr, and what myriad of things had to go just so, just right, for basic life forms to appear, one ould truly understand why people call life a miracle.

just a small sampling of the checklist needed to have Earth be what it is today.

a stable star around which to revolve
a stable planetary system where gravitational perturbations do not distort the Earth's stable orbit
a planetary system far removed from the center of our galaxy, where supermassive black holes, and periodic supernovas and star formation bathe everything in highly intense radiation, which is deadly to life
Large giant planets to attract and " clean up" the debris within the solar system. This allows the earth to develope without constant asteroid collissions.
the perfect distance from the star, where the rays warm the planet but are not powerful enough to strip the planet of it's atmosphere.
A large and stable sattelite/moon rotating arund the earth at such a perfect rate and speed that it balances out any small perturbations in the Earth's rotation, creating stability and semi-stable weather patterns. Hell, the lunar tides may have been the catalyst for the first actual cell formation as the waves crashed on shores throughout the planet.
an atmosphere composed of mostly nitrogen, which keeps the sun's lethal radiation from destroying life.
liquid oceans of water, which are extremely unlikely. If the Earth's temperature ever dips a few degrees too low or the earth moves just a bit too far from the sun all water would be ice, and life could not flourish. If the temperature gets a few degrees too high or the planet's orbit is just a bit too close to the star, then all the liquid water would be vaporized, and if the atmosphere is gone then the water would do what it did on Mars, which is to turn to rust as it reacts with the soils.


These are just a very minute criteria for a planet to have life like ours. very sall. this does not evn go into life itself.

frankly, the odds are most favorable that the Earth is the single planet in our galaxy of billions of stars that is capable of supporting life for what amounts to more than 3 BILLION YEARS.

I would find it preposterous to assume that this nearly unfthomable sequence of events can unfold regularly in our galaxy.
If anything, eafch galaxy out there may have but one planet around but one star system that can harbor life as the Earth can, allowing it to florusih and to create ever more complex and intelligent creatures.

if this is the case then we humans are ALONE, or as alone as can possibly be.

travel between stars is ridiculous. travel between ends of the galaxy is nearly unfathomable. Now, travel between the unimaginable recesses of deep space betrween galaxies? Nigh impossible to imagine.

we could very well be alone, and therefore we are responsible for caring for and propagating the seeds of life. I feel humans mission is to spread life, even bacterial or microorganism life, to any place we can. we may very well be the FIRST advanced civilization in the entire Universe, all hocuspocus

bullshit aside. that is a very real possibility

And yet against all the odds, here we are...so...

It's happened at least once.

edit: I didnt read the LAST paragraph, but it kind of changes your post, which changes my resonse. I could dig that...

[Keeping It Simple]

Originally Posted by pbradley

 

I like Bill Watterson's subtle parody of political correctness in that strip.

[ni'k]

were?

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

of coruse this assumes life as "we" know it. How are we supposed to find life we do not know to exist?.

I'm thinking in terms of some of the organisms that hang out in the deep sea vents that are (if I remember correctly) sulfide based - they look like crabs but are really collection of weird microorganisms - creepy -

[Phlegmscope]

Originally Posted by gualbert

An idea about why there's no other advanced civilization in the universe:
if there were some, it's reasonable to assume that many of them have highly superior technology, including super fast space travel.

If the speed of light is the upper limit of speed for anything to travel at, as it seem to be, it doesn't really matter how technologically advanced the civilization is. They can build fancy machines but breaking the laws of the physics is a whole another matter. It's very possible that the shortest route to the next object in space is a straight line, and there's no way around it. And even the speed of light is quite slow, if you compare it to the cosmic distances.

If that's the case and the nearest advanced civilization is, say, 10 000 light years away (which would be quite near in cosmological terms) we'd have no reasonable way of communicating with them or even finding them out, as we'd only see in each other's past.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by tesla69

I'm thinking in terms of some of the organisms that hang out in the deep sea vents that are (if I remember correctly) sulfide based - they look like crabs but are really collection of weird microorganisms - creepy -

their ecosystem is sulfide based. the bacteria "eat" the sulfides, using them to get energy instead of sunlight, those bacteria are then eaten by worms, fish, crabs, and so on. the animals at the sea vents are all the same life as we, DNA, water based life. Until we actually find some organism that eats, grows, and reproduces without water as a means for the chemical reactions that form "life", then it is pointless to talk about life as we do not know it. (at least when it comes to postulating the existence of life on a galacitic, universal level)

it may be that there are lifeforms that are pure energy, or that are indeed crystalline. Howveer, it is also just as likely that everything is alive in some sense (hylozoism) , since life is energy and change is the only constant in the universe.

[gualbert]

I don't believe that the speed of light is the max possible speed.
I've never read or heard any reasonnable arguments in favor of that scientific law.
Besides, if it's true, e=mc^2 makes no sense. You have to choose one or the other.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by Phlegmscope

If the speed of light is the upper limit of speed for anything to travel at, as it seem to be, it doesn't really matter how technologically advanced the civilization is. They can build fancy machines but breaking the laws of the physics is a whole another matter. It's very possible that the shortest route to the next object in space is a straight line, and there's no way around it. And even the speed of light is quite slow, if you compare it to the cosmic distances.

If that's the case and the nearest advanced civilization is, say, 10 000 light years away (which would be quite near in cosmological terms) we'd have no reasonable way of communicating with them or even finding them out, as we'd only see in each other's past.

that is very true.
In our galaxy, the furthest stars from us are about 100,000 light years away. each light year is roughly ten TRILLION kilometers. sick distance.


I have always maintained that it is equally plausible that the "aliens" and "UFO's" people see and have sen through history are humans from the far far future travelng back in timeto harvest genetic material needed in the distant future.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by gualbert

I don't believe that the speed of light is the max possible speed.
I've never read or heard any reasonnable arguments in favor of that scientific law.
Besides, if it's true, e=mc^2 makes no sense. You have to choose one or the other.

this makes no sense.

light/energy is massless, and massless things can go the fastest. The speed of any massive object, as it increases, also increases the mass of the object. This has been shown conclusively in experiment after experiment.
that is why the speed of light is seen as a maximum, for thereis nothing with less mass than energy which has NO MASS.

[gualbert]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

this makes no sense.

light/energy is massless, and massless things can go the fastest. The speed of any massive object, as it increases, also increases the mass of the object. This has been shown conclusively in experiment after experiment.
that is why the speed of light is seen as a maximum, for thereis nothing with less mass than energy which has NO MASS.

Suppose that a rocket with a huge tank is sent into space.
As the combustible is thrown away, the speed of the rocket increases.
So what happen when it reaches the speed of light?
The matter can't be thrown away from the ship?
Or maybe it can, but it has no effect on the speed of the ship?

[Rob Instigator]

the rocket will never reach lightspeed, or even close.
the faster something goes the more massive it becomes. the more massive it becomes the harder it is to increase the velocity of that massive object ever higher. way before reaching light speed, the energy needed to accelerate the object will be more than is available by any means. it would esswentially take infinite energy to get an object with any mass (even a proton) to go light speed.

hell, you have seen how much energy is used to just send a beam of protons in a particle accellerator at 3/4 the speed of light! Enough to power small cities! and that is just the mass of a few particles!

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by ploesj

"if you say ten hail mary's you'll fall asleep immediately." (grandmother)

"don't worry, there's a guardian angel watching over you so nothing will happen to you" (same grandmother, i fell out of a tree a week later, haha)

You didn't die, did you?

[akprodr]

Originally Posted by gualbert

I don't believe that the speed of light is the max possible speed.
I've never read or heard any reasonnable arguments in favor of that scientific law.
Besides, if it's true, e=mc^2 makes no sense. You have to choose one or the other.

There are plenty of tv shows on various science channels that will explain this for you. Or books. Brief History Of Time. The basic concepts really aren't that hard and do make sense once you understand them. And e=m^cc is the explanation for it.