[Kyohan]

Originally Posted by Kyohan

That is so much more difficult to do than an album's worth of white noise.
Rather Ripped is a good example of that.

Which is not to say I don't enjoy a good album's worth of white noise too

[kingcoffee]

I agree with you, Lipslikewindows. I'm in yr corner all the way. SY just aren't as daring and adventurous on this album as they used to be. They have flirted with different ideas over the (many) years that they have been around, but they've always remained (in some ways) the same. They always had a certain quality to them no matter what kind of music they were playing. A certain je ne se quoi (I think that's how you spell it) but it's strangly missing on this album. Whatever qualities that made Sonic Youth into who they are just are not present on Rather Ripped.

[kingcoffee]

I still love Murray Street, though.

[spiritbears]

i agree 100% with lips....sy now plays songs note for note....no more experimenting...ad lib etc....they hav become stale...they have become boring.....i love them all to death...but this pop shit is just that....shite..
I hate saying this...but everyone whose musical opinion i value shares this observation....
SY have sold out....
((((((((((

[Danny Himself]

If they had sold out, they'd be making super-entertainment shit like Velvet Revolver or Green Day. SY have not becoming boring, or any less experimental.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Danny Himself

If they had sold out, they'd be making super-entertainment shit like Velvet Revolver or Green Day. SY have not becoming boring, or any less experimental.

Seriously.

I don't understand this thread at all.
I love, love, love NYC Ghosts & Flowers, Murray Street, Sonic Nurse, and Rather Ripped.

[Lipslikewindows]

Originally Posted by Kyohan

Yeh, that's what I was trying to get at. A lot of the music that's most interesting to me allows artists to appeal to a more mainstream audience by using "pop" structures, while maintaining depth for those who want to find it.
That is so much more difficult to do than an album's worth of white noise.
Rather Ripped is a good example of that.

Except...Rather Ripped really doesn't have any depth. That's the problem.

[kingcoffee]

I don't think they have sold out. They don;t sell that many albums. Once they're on Mtv talking to the idiots that make TRL (is this show even on anymore?) THEN they will have sold out. Until then, they are still cool. I'm just not a big fan of Rather Ripped. Kinda boring.

[acousticrock87]

If they were to break up or go back to their old style because that's what people want or because people just don't like the new album, for whatever reason, I would consider that a form of selling out. It's not being true to themselves musically. Right now, they want to remain a band. If they decide to break up right now, then that's fine. But it's their choice. They should do what they feel is best for themselves, what will propel them in the direction they want. Even if that is a "lack of depth." They've proven themselves incredibly capable of making good music. If there is a lack of depth (which I do agree with to some extent), it's there for a reason.

[golden child]

yo, i dont think they have sold out or they are lacking depth or any shit like that. even if they collaborated with merzbow id think they were a long drawn out band that needs to stop while they are ahead before they become the rolling stones.

nuff said.

[Cantankerous]

they are the fucking rolling stones of the alternative scene. RR is their answer to A Bigger Bang.

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

I really hate saying it, I've been fighting it off for some time, but I feel must say that if Sonic Youth are going to progress on their current trajectory, they should break up. They are by all means my favorite band still around today, but out of their last four albums, including RR, the only one that's had me excited at all when I listened to it for the first time (or on subsequent listens) is "Sonic Nurse". On that album there were again interesting textures, STRONG, not-phoned-in jams, dark-and-felt melodies ("I Love You Golden Blue", which I ADORE), and some actually rockin' tunes. NYCGF had it's free-jazz moments which were nice, reminded me of good Coltrane or Ra; Murray Street had the epic and beautiful "Sympathy...", and Rather Ripped has a few three-star jams...but in general, these three albums are pretty ridiculous coming from Sonic Youth. Am I saying they have to constantly be noisy? No, not at all. Am I saying they can't change? Nope. Three of my favorite SY albums are DDN, Washing Machine, and Bad Moon Rising, which all sound absolutely nothing alike. What I'm getting at is that they're getting too, um, safe. I can understand the desire to write good pop tunes, but the thing is, they already did that! "Unwind", "Teenage Riot", "100%", "Sunday", etc...all great pop songs. But they're so incredibly ADVENTUROUS at the same time. And I guess that's what I'm missing. Yes, I own the SYRs, and I listen to them and enjoy them. But they didn't used to have to syphon all their interesting and experimental stuff into side-releases. The only thing that, for me personally, is interesting on "Ripped" is "Or", but it's completely marred by Thurston's ridiculous in-the-tour-bus scribblings. I'm sure this is offensive, and it hurts me more to say it than it could possibly hurt anyone to read it. I guess, for me, it's just that I didn't get into SY because they wrote good songs. I got into them because they scared the hell out of me with their ideas of what songs could be, what "pretty" could be, what "rockin'" could be, what "sad" could sound like. I don't need a standard indie rock album from them. And even Sonic Nurse is dangerously close to that for me (with the exception of "Golden..."). The only reason I have Ripped is because I got it for free with my ticket to their CB's show at the beginning of the tour (which was a complete let down, by the way. I didn't want to hear the "hits" of yesteryear (Schiz, or Teenage Riot, etc.), but I did want to be given something more than a set that consisted entirely of their new album (which I don't like) in order). In the end, I just worry that they've gotten complacent. At least NYCGF wasn't very good because it was an experiment that didn't quite work out. I'd take that over an album of safe, MOR rock songs any day.

T

LOL!

SY should do what SY are good at...making rock songs emotional, aggressive, and interesting. sounds like the only SY-era you got into was the "O'Rourke years". i don't buy that you were "into sonic youth when you were 10" either because every fan who got into SY during goo/dirty that i've talked to all love this album much more than any of the O'Rourke years(myself included).

what i'm seeing more of is older fans who SY lost touch with come back and appreciate SY again. alot of my friends(27yrs+) have not bought any SY since Washing Machine because they just didn't like the 7 & 8 minute "epic" songs(neither did i), so they never really followed SY after ATL, none of them liked NYG&F or Murray St, and only a couple had heard some of the songs off of NURSE, but now the older fans are starting to come back because we understand a little more than the younger generations what SY is really good at, we've seen trends come and go since the 80s and understand what's working and what's not.

Rather Ripped has disappointed most who got into SY around NYG&F-Nurse, but it also has pleased most who got into SY during the late 80s through Washing Machine.

It's not going to please everyone. Rather Ripped sounds like they can still rock the guitar, make melody, and know that "simplicity" is the way to go.

if you don't like it, maybe you should retire from listening to SY yourself.

[jon boy]

i didnt get into sy with goo or dirty.

[les clochards du monde]

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

I really hate saying it, I've been fighting it off for some time, but I feel must say that if Sonic Youth are going to progress on their current trajectory, they should break up. They are by all means my favorite band still around today, but out of their last four albums, including RR, the only one that's had me excited at all when I listened to it for the first time (or on subsequent listens) is "Sonic Nurse". On that album there were again interesting textures, STRONG, not-phoned-in jams, dark-and-felt melodies ("I Love You Golden Blue", which I ADORE), and some actually rockin' tunes. NYCGF had it's free-jazz moments which were nice, reminded me of good Coltrane or Ra; Murray Street had the epic and beautiful "Sympathy...", and Rather Ripped has a few three-star jams...but in general, these three albums are pretty ridiculous coming from Sonic Youth. Am I saying they have to constantly be noisy? No, not at all. Am I saying they can't change? Nope. Three of my favorite SY albums are DDN, Washing Machine, and Bad Moon Rising, which all sound absolutely nothing alike. What I'm getting at is that they're getting too, um, safe. I can understand the desire to write good pop tunes, but the thing is, they already did that! "Unwind", "Teenage Riot", "100%", "Sunday", etc...all great pop songs. But they're so incredibly ADVENTUROUS at the same time. And I guess that's what I'm missing. Yes, I own the SYRs, and I listen to them and enjoy them. But they didn't used to have to syphon all their interesting and experimental stuff into side-releases. The only thing that, for me personally, is interesting on "Ripped" is "Or", but it's completely marred by Thurston's ridiculous in-the-tour-bus scribblings. I'm sure this is offensive, and it hurts me more to say it than it could possibly hurt anyone to read it. I guess, for me, it's just that I didn't get into SY because they wrote good songs. I got into them because they scared the hell out of me with their ideas of what songs could be, what "pretty" could be, what "rockin'" could be, what "sad" could sound like. I don't need a standard indie rock album from them. And even Sonic Nurse is dangerously close to that for me (with the exception of "Golden..."). The only reason I have Ripped is because I got it for free with my ticket to their CB's show at the beginning of the tour (which was a complete let down, by the way. I didn't want to hear the "hits" of yesteryear (Schiz, or Teenage Riot, etc.), but I did want to be given something more than a set that consisted entirely of their new album (which I don't like) in order). In the end, I just worry that they've gotten complacent. At least NYCGF wasn't very good because it was an experiment that didn't quite work out. I'd take that over an album of safe, MOR rock songs any day.

T

But all things are moving, and all things grows. Stagnancy is the death.
Music comes to them. thats' all.

[Rob Instigator]

How is what I wrote on this thread "barely intelligible?"

[Lipslikewindows]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

If they were to break up or go back to their old style because that's what people want or because people just don't like the new album, for whatever reason, I would consider that a form of selling out. It's not being true to themselves musically. Right now, they want to remain a band. If they decide to break up right now, then that's fine. But it's their choice. They should do what they feel is best for themselves, what will propel them in the direction they want. Even if that is a "lack of depth." They've proven themselves incredibly capable of making good music. If there is a lack of depth (which I do agree with to some extent), it's there for a reason.

Look...I've already said a few times I don't want them to go back to they're old style. I want them to keep pushing forward in SOME interesting way. You could say RR is forward in the sense that, "well, they've never really made an album THIS uninteresting, so it's kinda interesting" blah blah blah. I don't think that way.

re: "SY should do what SY are good at...making rock songs emotional, aggressive, and interesting. sounds like the only SY-era you got into was the "O'Rourke years". i don't buy that you were "into sonic youth when you were 10" either because every fan who got into SY during goo/dirty that i've talked to all love this album much more than any of the O'Rourke years(myself included)."

Buy what you want. Dirty, while it was the album that got me into them, is on the back half of my list of SY albums in order of how much I love them. My favorite albums, in order, would probably be something like this:

Washing Machine
Daydream Nation
Bad Moon Rising
Confusion is Sex
Sister
Evol
A Thousand Leaves.

[Rob Instigator]

sonic youth ahve never made an abum of HOOK san dmelodies and straightforward rock, and I do not think they did it in an unimaginative way, as if they ahd no goodi ideas. I think R is fantastic and full of great ideas and asskicking.
it is an album about LOVE what do you not get about that?

chill.

[Lipslikewindows]

Okay, I'm saying I THINK they should break up. How's that? Isn't a message board a good place for opinions?

"Unmade Bed" and "I Love You Golden Blue" are good examples of what Jim enabled them to do once again (of course they didn't used to need Jim to do it...)

[shentov]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I can see where you are coming from, but to me it is all about phases with sonic youth.
no wave (sonic youth, confusion and to a large extent BMR)
noise rock (evol, sister, daydream antion, goo, dirty)
free form experimentation (EJST&NS, SYR's, NYC ghost)
and now we are in a phase where sonic youth are exploring their melodies (wahsing, murray, nurse, ripped)

sonic youth ahs always been about the confluence of noise and beauty. they always had and have both working, sometimes noise to a greater degree (BMR, confusion), sometimes melody to a greater degree (EJST&NS, Murray, Nurse) and I feel rather ripped is their most melodic album to date. if any single indie rock band had released RR other than sonic youth the indie underground would be salivating over it's tasty sounds and melodies and hooks, YES HOOKS, sonic youth can write HOOKS!

daydream nation is the masterpiece it is because it amalgamated everything sonic youth love to do, melodies, noise, experimentation, into one complete package.

thank goodness sonic youth does not repeat themselves.

I just do not see how people can complain they are softening up when their SYR series takes expereimental rock to heights (or lows, depending on how you like them) that noone ever has done before.

and on ripped and nurse and murray they are exploring actual songcraft. most of the murray songs were written by thurston on a n acoustic guitar. that is sonic youth experimenting. enjopy it for what it is, rather ripped is afantastic rocking melodic album, and yes, it is packed to the brim with TASTEFULLY DONE NOISE, dig? the noise serves the melody in this al bum's case.

in bad moon rising the melody served the noise splendor.

I am not saying people do not have a right to dislike output buy this, the single greatest band in the history of music, but to lay such vehement ill sentiment upon these, my gods of rock, gods of skronk, it hurts me a lot. I don;t know. it really does. it is like a patriot gets when someone puts down their motherland.

I think rather ripped is actually more subversive to mainstream rock than most of what they ahve done in the past. it shows that you can use sonic skronk and sonic tunings to create BEAUTY, straight up BEAUTY, and I love it

I have listened to RR every day for weeks now. I find skronk hidden in there, nuggets of sonic skronk to tease my ears and please my brain.

long live sonic youth

i second that and, to be honest, i haven't read the whole discussion.
sonic life

[khchris(original)]

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

Okay, I'm saying I THINK they should break up. How's that? Isn't a message board a good place for opinions?

"Unmade Bed" and "I Love You Golden Blue" are good examples of what Jim enabled them to do once again (of course they didn't used to need Jim to do it...)

...and boy were those songs BOOOORRRRRIIIIIINNNNGGGG!!!!(lol)