[Genteel Death]

We worked really hard, you know? I'm not even getting paid to be this right.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

Well I think St. Anger and LULU differs like day and night (I think St. Anger is just great), but of course it´s a wrong opinion, because I don´t belong into SYG-cream.

Adam Cooley loved St. Anger and he has the most posts than anyone here.

But you should maybe actually hear the whole thing before passing judgement on it like you're doing. I'm tired of people hearing several songs from something and making a collective opinion based on that when really most albums can only be assessed once you've experienced the whole thing in order. And this album works well as an album which is something I've not heard many reviews mention (possibly because their main mantra was, "Lou Reed and Metallica? BAHAHA!").

[Genteel Death]

kapitalism & listening to records

[Derek]

I don't read gast30's threads because they just make my blood boil with their incoherence.

[Genteel Death]

I don't dislike his posts. I just think they're too much for me at any given time. I suppose there is space for everyone.

[Derek]

His posts are okay when I take the time to figure out what he's actually saying but I'm too busy doing nothing to do this often.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I haven´t heard the whole record, but what I´ve heard it sound to me miserable. Lyrics may be great, but the way Lou "sings" them is miserable. I also like some music that I consider perverse, but I don´t think this is perverse. But of course everybody have own opionions about what´s perverse.

I suppose it's a question of where you're coming from. I don't imagine many dyed-in-the-wool Metallica fans are ever going to like Lulu. It's not really for them (not that metalheads can't/ don't listen to other things - I mean a specific, metal-centric perspective that's not interested in other things). I think Reed's singing is rough, but he's not in his 20s any more, and he's fucked himself up. He struggles to hold a note these days. But the inability to sing well doesn't mean he shouldn't. Everyone loved Cash's late records, and his voice is fucked there. But if you look at Lulu in a similar way to something like Jandek or David Tibet - two divisive voices if ever there were... - Reed isn't letting his physical limitations stopping him, he's actually using them - to emphasise the lyrics, to act with contrary melody to the (quite poppy) Metallica arrangements.

I don't mean perverse in terms of the lyrics, by the by - I'm a long way from thinking that S/m lyrics are interesting in themselves. I mean in terms of a few contingent things - getting a very boorish metal band playing very boorish arrangements over some very feminist lyrics; having very flat, standard metal riffs coupled with outré arrangements; Having a man in his late-60s singing from the perspective of a pre-teen girl. That sort of thing.

Regards what Derek said about actually listening to things - I think that's what I like about this record. A lot of the time a brief listen doesn't give you much more than an idea of some influences, a bit of how people structure things etc etc. What really surprised me about Lulu was how ugly it seemed from the outset. Making a record that's immediately repulsive, rather than just insipid (say, Mumford and Sons) is quite an achievement. It is an ugly record, but that's an important aesthetic, and one that's definitely pretty shocking in 2011.

Regarding the 'SYG elect' comment - no-one here in the 'elect' (assuming you mean the top 20 or so posters) agrees with each other on anything. It's not a secret club, it's just a load of people talking shite. Some have talked more shite than others. I certainly don't agree with most people on most things, but I also don't care. It's a question of how you deal with disagreements, not a circle-jerk franchise.

[Derek]

Some of the tracks that aren't that interesting work in the album's context which is something you're not going to pick up from previewing the songs. 'The View' is possibly the worst song on there but I could appreciate it a lot more after listening to it's preceding track which is supposed to set it up. I'm just tired of instant judgements people make which is possibly a catalyst from the internet age. I hated the Kanye West songs 'POWER' and 'Monster' but when I gave it's respective album a good listen it became one of my favourite hip hop albums of all time and even came to enjoy those songs a lot more than I did when it was stripped from it's context.

Granted, this isn't going to happen in all cases. But I think it's more if the artist is album-centric (which Metallica and almost definitely Lou Reed are).

[Genteel Death]

Derek being totally gangsta on this thread. Can't rep him.

[!@#$%!]

oh man i heard once the edgar allan poe "musical narrative" by lou read-- was it the raven i can't remember-- and it was awful in spite of the star-studded cast (i think steve buscemi read one part).

here i don't predict anything good but metallica sounds good in the background-- at least until the singer opens his mouth.

metal bands should give up vocals completely, like pelican.

[Derek]

Mattin's take on the album:

The beauty of our times: this record is the most hated record ever and it has only just been released. Lou Reed and Metallica took a risk and Lulu is generating some of the most passionate and intelligent writing on the internet. For sure the cruelty of the reviews matches the cruelty of the record. Both seem to be an ethnographic study of our times. One of the reviewers said that Lou Reed and Metallica are amongst the most perverse musicians around. Why do people get surprised when they get the ultimate perverse record? So perverse that you cannot take it? There is a famous saying in downtown New York which goes: if you are a Lou Reed fan you must be ready to go all the way. Yes, he is going to take you to places that you have never dreamed of, even in your worst nightmares.If you are a Lou Reed fan you go through shit, shit records, shit playing, shit covers, shit lyrics... He takes you psychologically to the wild side even if you might be comfortably playing the record in your cosy home with a cup of tea. He is going to make you reconsider your values of judgement to the core and beyond. Once you go through this then you might agree with Lou when he says about Lulu: "This thing is the best thing ever done by anybody". And he insists in an interview that he is not being egotistical. I am a Lou Reed fan and I believe him. When Lou does something he puts himself into it 100% and as we know this is too much for the majority of human beings, from his solo on “I Heard Her Call My Name” that made him the best guitarist ever by bridging feedback noise rock with a Coleman free jazz sensitivity to Metal Machine Music where the guitar did not even need a guitarist (artistic de-subjectification probably taken from Warhol's filmmaking: he didn't need to be behind the camera). But here we get a blunt and confident Lou Reed happy to have a partner to rock with. And this is what Lou Reed and Metallica are becoming: Rock'n'roll animals in the perverted zoo of the internet. Yes, Lulu is about sex. It is a 69 between Lou Reed and Metallica. Lou's tongue is a chainsaw with rusted links (for infection and maximum durability). Metallica gets cut in two and will never recover. They say in interviews that now that they have discovered improvisation with Lou they will implement it on their 10th record. Who knows, maybe next year Metallica will play at the Konfrontatitonen festival? Lou has previously made amazing noise with the guitar but that has already made it into the proper canon of Noise (as an established genre of music). Now he uses his voice as a device for achieving unreified noise which still contains alienation. But this is not concrete poetry, somehow it sounds even seems more abstract, it is relentless, beautifully out of tune and it hurts. And then the lyrics: sniff your shit in the wind, coloured dick, pathetic little dog... these sentences are snubs to any form of taste. Reed lyrics achieve a level of vulgarity so brilliant that it will probably beat the number of quotes that a single record can get on the internet. Yes, James, you are a table, where Lou can rest his fuckin' feet on. What Lulu produces is a radical equalisation: a teenage Metallica cover band are the backing group to a drunken 100 year old ranting about how viciously prostituted a prostitute was who he met when he was 14 while angels in furs play violins and the neighbourhood dudes in a basement are making noise while looking at amateur German porn which contains some scatological moments. In fact on this record you get the whole canon of interesting music: drone wrong, Henry Chopin-style language deconstructions, improv-thrash, heavy literary cock rock, contemporary classical Brainbombs, geriatric-metal... The headfuck continues with the gender politics: what could be more queer than a young feminist girl shouting for sexual liberation in the body of an old male Jew with cut legs and tits? (Whether this body has sperm or not is another question...) Lulu is more Lou Reed than Lou Reed and that surely means that this is the best thing ever done by anybody.

http://www.volcanictongue.com/columns/show/17

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Derek

Adam Cooley loved St. Anger and he has the most posts than anyone here.

But you should maybe actually hear the whole thing before passing judgement on it like you're doing. I'm tired of people hearing several songs from something and making a collective opinion based on that when really most albums can only be assessed once you've experienced the whole thing in order. And this album works well as an album which is something I've not heard many reviews mention (possibly because their main mantra was, "Lou Reed and Metallica? BAHAHA!").

You are right, I should listen the whole record. But if I listen all the records recommend here, I won´t have time to do anything else (maybe even sleeping). But anyway I will listen LULU someday, but not very soon, because I don´t still believe I will like it (of course something like that has happened that I start to like record that at first has sounded very miserable).

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Glice

I suppose it's a question of where you're coming from. I don't imagine many dyed-in-the-wool Metallica fans are ever going to like Lulu. It's not really for them (not that metalheads can't/ don't listen to other things - I mean a specific, metal-centric perspective that's not interested in other things). I think Reed's singing is rough, but he's not in his 20s any more, and he's fucked himself up. He struggles to hold a note these days. But the inability to sing well doesn't mean he shouldn't. Everyone loved Cash's late records, and his voice is fucked there. But if you look at Lulu in a similar way to something like Jandek or David Tibet - two divisive voices if ever there were... - Reed isn't letting his physical limitations stopping him, he's actually using them - to emphasise the lyrics, to act with contrary melody to the (quite poppy) Metallica arrangements.

I don't mean perverse in terms of the lyrics, by the by - I'm a long way from thinking that S/m lyrics are interesting in themselves. I mean in terms of a few contingent things - getting a very boorish metal band playing very boorish arrangements over some very feminist lyrics; having very flat, standard metal riffs coupled with outré arrangements; Having a man in his late-60s singing from the perspective of a pre-teen girl. That sort of thing.

Regards what Derek said about actually listening to things - I think that's what I like about this record. A lot of the time a brief listen doesn't give you much more than an idea of some influences, a bit of how people structure things etc etc. What really surprised me about Lulu was how ugly it seemed from the outset. Making a record that's immediately repulsive, rather than just insipid (say, Mumford and Sons) is quite an achievement. It is an ugly record, but that's an important aesthetic, and one that's definitely pretty shocking in 2011.

Regarding the 'SYG elect' comment - no-one here in the 'elect' (assuming you mean the top 20 or so posters) agrees with each other on anything. It's not a secret club, it's just a load of people talking shite. Some have talked more shite than others. I certainly don't agree with most people on most things, but I also don't care. It's a question of how you deal with disagreements, not a circle-jerk franchise.

I don´t have no reason to like some album just because the major people thinks it´s repulsive, although I like many albums the most people find repulsive.

To me it seems lyrics are more important to you than music.

About "Syg Elect" always when there is more than one people doing something together begins some kind of society. And every society has hierachy, so it is also here in SYG.

[Glice]

Apparently you've not paid much attention to the bollocks I've spouted on here over the years. I find lyrics to mostly be bad, which is one of the reasons I like (some) Reed. I tend to focus on music more, but that's a bit pointless in the case of a band like Metallica - they don't do a great deal that's formally complex. It's mostly uppy downy diatonic stuff, from what I've gathered (and I'm not interested in listening to anything to prove me wrong).

In this case, the lyrics are very good, which puts the whole album in a different light.

It's not a question of other people finding it repulsive - that would be contrarianism - it's a question that Lulu is aesthetically quite jarring and awkward (which is a different sort of contingency).

The hierarchy is entirely your perception. Just call everyone a cunt. Go on, it'll be funny.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Glice

Apparently you've not paid much attention to the bollocks I've spouted on here over the years. I find lyrics to mostly be bad, which is one of the reasons I like (some) Reed. I tend to focus on music more, but that's a bit pointless in the case of a band like Metallica - they don't do a great deal that's formally complex. It's mostly uppy downy diatonic stuff, from what I've gathered (and I'm not interested in listening to anything to prove me wrong).

In this case, the lyrics are very good, which puts the whole album in a different light.

It's not a question of other people finding it repulsive - that would be contrarianism - it's a question that Lulu is aesthetically quite jarring and awkward (which is a different sort of contingency).

The hierarchy is entirely your perception. Just call everyone a cunt. Go on, it'll be funny.

I have no need to start bark you or analyze you more. I just say most of you in "inner circle" are quite sick. Hope you get help yourself at least sometime in your life. And if you want to bark me, just go on, I don´t also have any need to read this thread anymore.

[Glice]

Ah, the old amateur psychologist line. Always a winner, that one.

I was only twying to bee yowar fweeeend...

Again, there is no inner-circle. There's a load of people who have too much time on their hands and/ or enjoy forumming. Come on, it's hardly like forums are a new phenomenon. Get with the system, man...

[Derek]

There is an inner circle and it only contains me.

[Glice]

Your ringpiece doesn't count as a clique dear. More an aspiration.

Hang on, you're 18 now, right? Ignore the above.

[sy2004]

how low could they go?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Glice

Your ringpiece doesn't count as a clique dear. More an aspiration.

Hang on, you're 18 now, right? Ignore the above.

I will be saving this incase I have to supply evidence in court at a later date.