[marleypumpkin]

"I can't wait for the metric system to replace numbers. That way, when someone asks, how big are you? I can say, 120."
-Robin Williams

[Onani Nic]

Originally Posted by marleypumpkin

I feel sorry for you if you don't think noise is art.

Noise is.......historical.

That's how this thread was suppose to be.

I was just being stupid, Noise is Art I guess but even moreso Noise is Rad.......

Like when i guy I know who was being interviewed by the Wire about his "free rock" band:

Interviewer: What is your bands asthetic?

Interviewee: We are six dudes who like to play music, communicate with each other musically.

Noise shouldn't be too intellectual, thats when you get geeks sitting infront of lap-tops twiddling knobs while the audience sits perfectly still for 45 minutes.

[marleypumpkin]

All good points Onani Nic.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Onani Nic

I was just being stupid, Noise is Art I guess but even moreso Noise is Rad.......

Like when i guy I know who was being interviewed by the Wire about his "free rock" band:

Interviewer: What is your bands asthetic?

Interviewee: We are six dudes who like to play music, communicate with each other musically.

Noise shouldn't be too intellectual, thats when you get geeks sitting infront of lap-tops twiddling knobs while the audience sits perfectly still for 45 minutes.

yeah, the wire tends to forget that one of the best things about music is that it is fun. what band was that in the interview?

[Onani Nic]

It was a Sydney band called Castings, not one word of the hour and a half interview was used in the article. I can't remember what issue it was, it might have been the Lightning Bolt one. Castings rule!

[Signpost]

I feel sorry for you if you don't think noise is art.

Noise is not art.
Noise is noise.
End of story.

[marleypumpkin]

Than, why do we love SY? Because of they're amazing artistic capabilities, which includes NOISE!

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

the ringing in my ears

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

I actually agree with signpost, because I think once noise becomes art- it has meaning and fails to be noise.

[marleypumpkin]

Point taken. But, I myself can't help but feel overwhelmed everytime I hear something like "Hidros 3", or "In The Fishtank". & to me, being overwhelmed is an example of art.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

so noise is ironic?

no

it's ironic that there's people like marley trying to come up with this big justifications for it.

noise is just that, it's unironic

[Glice]

In addition to what I have said here

...The argument, couched in somewhat high falutin' terms may be summarised not in vapid emotivist responses, but in terms of the questions which noise poses for the general appreciation of music. 'Noise music' contians within it a naturaly anachronism, that of the conjoining of two opposed terms. In itself this is not something that the general music listener is unfamiliar with; cf the changing face of R & B; philosophically speaking, some us have actually realised that post-modernism does not refer to what it seems to (and I'm damned if I can be arsed to regurgitate that argument)...

The referent 'noise' refers to several things (again, see my posts in above link). What the general argument here is referring to is a slightly different side of things; One group of protagonists assert the anachronism of the apparant referent for noise (which is an mis-understanding of which 'noise' the word noise refers). Another side asserts, badly: That noise, by dint of its appearance as a general category of music, must therefore have a dialogue to which we can appeal. This dialogue is very much present but not explicit; were it to be made explicit, we would probably found that the aesthetic criteria, such as they might be, would not refer to harmony, melody, counterpoint and the like, but timbre, volume, volume dynamics* and sub-categories/ criteria of enharmonics, sub-categories of musique concrete's criteria.

Now. Can we stop having these stupid "I think it is." "I think it isn't". "Well, I think you're wrong." "Well, it's all subjective" arguments and talk about things with at least the slightest modicum of intelligence.

PLEASE?

*Volume dynamics is a different category to volume; if this isn't clear, then perhaps you're not thinking about noise in anything like a properly critical fashion.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Glice

In addition to what I have said here

...The argument, couched in somewhat high falutin' terms may be summarised not in vapid emotivist responses, but in terms of the questions which noise poses for the general appreciation of music. 'Noise music' contians within it a naturaly anachronism, that of the conjoining of two opposed terms. In itself this is not something that the general music listener is unfamiliar with; cf the changing face of R & B; philosophically speaking, some us have actually realised that post-modernism does not refer to what it seems to (and I'm damned if I can be arsed to regurgitate that argument)...

The referent 'noise' refers to several things (again, see my posts in above link). What the general argument here is referring to is a slightly different side of things; One group of protagonists assert the anachronism of the apparant referent for noise (which is an mis-understanding of which 'noise' the word noise refers). Another side asserts, badly: That noise, by dint of its appearance as a general category of music, must therefore have a dialogue to which we can appeal. This dialogue is very much present but not explicit; were it to be made explicit, we would probably found that the aesthetic criteria, such as they might be, would not refer to harmony, melody, counterpoint and the like, but timbre, volume, volume dynamics* and sub-categories/ criteria of enharmonics, sub-categories of musique concrete's criteria...

see? this is what i meant when i said that noise shouldn't be art, it spoils the fun in it makes it seem like it's something pretentiously out of proportions.

[Glice]

Any more pretentious than involving yourself in a public dialogue and then cosseting yourself behind accusations of sophistry?

[Trasher02]

uuugh you guys suck noise kicks ass, period.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Glice

Any more pretentious than involving yourself in a public dialogue and then cosseting yourself behind accusations of sophistry?

1) i wasn't attacking you, i just though your post was a perfect example of people making noise into some art/intellectual thing which misses the point (i my opinion) sure there's people who do noise for art reasons and to start this kind of discussions and overblown wordery, but the noise i like it's pretty unself-conciouss, as much self concious as rock gets i think. that's the noise i think should be the one that mattered

2) i'm not really discussing anything, i just point stuff out

3) if it bothers you this threads of music should be this and that. avoid them!! that's what i do with the genre and overrated/underrated threads

[noumenal]

What Glice is getting at is actually something really simple and the fact that he "couched it in somewhat high falutin' terms" is, in my opinion, pretty hilarious. In a good way.

When this thread first came up, I was wondering what the point was. I mean, we had just had a pretty long discussion in the thread I started called The Meaning of Noise (a rant). Glice helped out quite a bit in there.

His reaction in this thread is similar to the reaction I had in my "Rock vs. Rock 'n' Roll" thread. I flipped out at the "vapid emotivist" responses that everyone was posting and then got flamed for being pretentious. All I wanted to do then was have a discussion about what the words meant and about the possibility of coming up with a good rational meaning that would do away with all the competing usages. I didn't use the word "emotivist" because I've always tended to use that word to describe moral utterances, but it would have worked perfectly to describe what was going on in there.

However, I don't think you are using sophistry Glice, because sophistry is suppossed to be deceptively simple and misleading. You seemed to be trying to be as esoteric and obscure as you could and using that as some sort of shit-stick. But what you're saying is right on and like I said, pretty funny. Whether you meant it that way or not.....

[noumenal]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

1) i wasn't attacking you, i just though your post was a perfect example of people making noise into some art/intellectual thing which misses the point (i my opinion) sure there's people who do noise for art reasons and to start this kind of discussions and overblown wordery, but the noise i like it's pretty unself-conciouss, as much self concious as rock gets i think. that's the noise i think should be the one that mattered

Hey Everyneurotic, he wasn't really talking about noise--for the most part, he was talking about the way you guys were expressing yourselves. He has a point, but it may be a little unrealistic to expect the kind of discussion he's looking for on an internet forum.

[next step]

noise is sound milled

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by noumenal

Hey Everyneurotic, he wasn't really talking about noise--for the most part, he was talking about the way you guys were expressing yourselves. He has a point, but it may be a little unrealistic to expect the kind of discussion he's looking for on an internet forum.

i guess you are right, i get that reaction when people start using big words to talk about music, it annoys the shit out of me.

i should just follow my rule and stay clear of genre threads