[Savage Clone]

I like a lot of women who rock, but they pretty much are all just women who want to rock and they don't make a big political statement out of it or make "identity" music. Seriously, "identity art" of any kind is such a lame copout for a lack of genuine creativity that words can't even really scratch the surface.
PJ Harvey
Bardo Pond
Windy and Carl
Boris
Major Stars
Overhang Party

...the list goes on and on. None of these bands are pushing their personal agendas through music, and they all have talented and strong women in their ranks.
I respect them because they are great artists, not because they "had the guts to play rough with the boys." That line is getting tiresome at this point.
I kind of dislike political and issue-oriented posturing in music most of the time anyway, so take my comments with a big old grain of salt if you like.
I just like it when people make music or art for the sheer fulfillment of making great art. Some of them are men and some of them are women.
Big deal.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Pookie

I think you posted at the wrong time. The board is going through one of its negative ignorant periods at the moment. (This doesn't apply to evrybody of course).

Good luck with the project.

C'mon Pookie, there are so many things wrong with girlsrockmovie's long post that they are too numerous to address!

On the subject of "Maxim-fed piddle," this movie certainly seems that it will fit that bill itself.

[girlsrockmovie]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I like a lot of women who rock, but they pretty much are all just women who want to rock and they don't make a big political statement out of it or make "identity" music. Seriously, "identity art" of any kind is such a lame copout for a lack of genuine creativity that words can't even really scratch the surface.
PJ Harvey
Bardo Pond
Windy and Carl
Boris
Major Stars
Overhang Party

...the list goes on and on. None of these bands are pushing their personal agendas through music, and they all have talented and strong women in their ranks.
I respect them because they are great artists, not because they "had the guts to play rough with the boys." That line is getting tiresome at this point.
I kind of dislike political and issue-oriented posturing in music most of the time anyway, so take my comments with a big old grain of salt if you like.
I just like it when people make music or art for the sheer fulfillment of making great art. Some of them are men and some of them are women.
Big deal.

Thanks to all of you have started engaging in a more thoughtful discussion here...I don't mind if people disagree or argue as long as they check their prejudices and idiocies at the door....

For instance, this is a really interesting post, and in fact many of the girls in the movie agree with you. I personally think attention still needs to be paid to the imbalances--for instance, only 22% of musical performers on MTV are women (as opposed to booty-shaking dancers)--but I totally respect women like PJ Harvey and Chrissie Hynde who've said they want to be known as musicians first, women second. I don't think I ever said in my posts, or in the movie, or on our site, that we're only for political women. One of the songs on the soundtrack is by a death metal band called Arch Enemy that features a woman lead singer. You could hardly call her a political hippie songwriter or anything.

Our job as documentary filmmakers was to listen to what the girls were saying and put them on screen. Of the girls we focused on, only one wrote a song about being a woman and wanting to rock. The others just wanted to make music and have fun.

And ultimately, whatever political points we make about women in the movie just came from listening to what the girls and women were saying about what they struggle with. I'm really happy for the girl on here who said no-one has attitude about girls being in bands where she is, that's awesome! Unfortunately, that's not the case for every girl everywhere. Some of it's subtle, and some of the girls in our movie were just told flat out they weren't wanted cause they were girls. The fact is, most of the girls who come to the Camp feel like the woman here who went to Ladies Rock Camp, empowered and suddenly more confident about forming a band. That's just a fact. Some people need different things than others, and that's fine.

[atari 2600]

How much skin is in this movie?

Not to come off a sexist (which I most certainly will anyway), but we both know that's what put suicidegirls.com on the map.

And we both know (or at least certainly should) that the Girls Rock doc would have never seen the light of day without the Suicide Girls deal on premium cable and that the only reason anyone watches that tripe is for the really soft porn. Guys with tats and piercings watch it to see girls that have also mangled themselves making their "personal statements." Apparently, individulaity can be found with the proper accessories.
A recent study found that half of American young people have tattoos and/or piercings.

Oh yeah, I forgot, porn is "empowering" too according to many people and "reformist feminists" like Camille Paglia.

By the way, have you seen Jesus Camp?
It's a good documentary, and one of the best films of the year in a year that's chock-full of good movies.

And grrls, remember: OWN YR SEXUALITY!

[static-harmony]

I want to see Jesus Camp.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by static-harmony

I want to see Jesus Camp.

It's more genuinely frightening than any horror movie.

Originally Posted by Diesel

what the fuck is happening?

Bewilderment should come as nothing new to you, Diesel. I get this sense of you as someone who is always asking that question.

[static-harmony]

Is funny that guy who got caught being a gay preacher who was all anti gay was in that movie.

[Savage Clone]

I was just speaking in general terms; I do not want anyone to think I was criticizing the movie.
I recognize this movie's right to exist.

[luxinterior]

I watched some clips of Jesus Camp on ifilm once. That's all I'm going to say about that.

[atari 2600]

All I want to know is what towelie thinks.

[thewall91]

How much skin is in this movie?

I certainly hope not a lot. The girls at the girls' camp here in NY are between the ages of 8 and 18, and from the trailer it looks like the same age range. There is nothing really about the camp experience that really exploits or focusses on sexuality or gender in any way. It really is just about rocking. It's kind of like girl scouts, but more fun (I say that having never been a girl scout so I really am just talking shit).

[k-krack]

Originally Posted by thewall91

I certainly hope not a lot. The girls at the girls' camp here in NY are between the ages of 8 and 18, and from the trailer it looks like the same age range. There is nothing really about the camp experience that really exploits or focusses on sexuality or gender in any way. It really is just about rocking. It's kind of like girl scouts, but more fun (I say that having never been a girl scout so I really am just talking shit).

...except that it is solely for girls...

[thewall91]

...except that it is solely for girls...

so is girl scouts, and nobody complains about that.

[k-krack]

No, I was pointing out the flaw in yr statement, is all.

[thewall91]

well, my response kind of answers that point. girl scouts isn't about "hey, we're girls AND scouts," it's just something that girls do. boys do it too. it's called boy scouts. the fact that it is a rock camp for girls is no different than if it was a rock camp for boys. if there's a basketball camp, generally they're not mixed. they're for either girls or boys. when you're at camp, the focus isn't on being girls who rock, it's just about rocking.

[k-krack]

Then turning out to be an annoying feminist who believes they are being oppressed in the music world, though they are creating this oppression in their own minds. I'm not trying to be a dick, but the whole feminist movement in music doesn't make much sense to me. (No, it has nothing to do with discomfort about not being able to "rock as hard.")

[touch me i'm sick]

Originally Posted by k-krack

Then turning out to be an annoying feminist who believes they are being oppressed in the music world, though they are creating this oppression in their own minds. I'm not trying to be a dick, but the whole feminist movement in music doesn't make much sense to me. (No, it has nothing to do with discomfort about not being able to "rock as hard.")

word mutha fucka

[thewall91]

Then turning out to be an annoying feminist who believes they are being oppressed in the music world, though they are creating this oppression in their own minds.

You lost me here. You're assuming that eight-year-olds who participate are somehow going to be brainwashed into being uber-feminists because the camp is called girls rock camp? That's me trying to guess what your point was. How you arrived at it kind of baffles me. Is your generalization about girls who go to a camp like this? Or is it just about feminists in general?

[k-krack]

Nah, you had a good point with the other camps bit, but any way you cut it, feminism in music, especially now, is dumb.

[thewall91]

If feminism is overplayed, it can definitely get annoying. I like a lot of things that feminists seem to hate. Like Motley Crue, who are big on strippers and porn (neither of which bother me in any way). I know that by dressing the way I want to dress when Girls Girls Girls hits the stage (my all-girl Crue tribute band, for those who don't know), we will definitely run the risk of being seen as slutty girls who, if we play well, will just be bonus. But you better believe we will have to kick ass to prove doubters wrong. I happen to be up for the challenge and don't particularly care what people think (my shyness and insecurity obviously rising to the surface here.) I have a vision for what I want this band to be, and Motley Crue played up their sexuality, and I intend to do the same thing. So we'll probably be reviled by both feminists and anti-feminists. Go figure.