[louder]

List of songs that inspired 4:44
http://tidal.com/playlist/41e60f32-e...9-c1ff1fd7bd52

1
What's Going On
Marvin Gaye

2
Purple Rain (2015 Paisley Park Remaster)
Prince & The Revolution

3
One Love / People Get Ready
Bob Marley & The Wailers

4
Them Belly Full (But We Hungry)
Bob Marley & The Wailers

5
Magnolia
Playboi Carti

6
Luchini AKA This Is It
Camp Lo

7
Rock with You (Single Version)
Michael Jackson

8
Aht Uh Mi Hed
Shuggie Otis

9
Criminal Minded
Boogie Down Productions

10
Bold as Love
Jimi Hendrix

11
Wild Is The Wind
Nina Simone

12
Retrograde
James Blake

13
Ex-Factor
Ms. Lauryn Hill

14
The Message (feat. Melle Mel & Duke Bootee)
Grandmaster Flash

15
Don't Stop
Brazilian Girls

[louder]

This album.. so mature, so layered, and far from gimmicky.

If Jay retires with this one, he might as well go down as the greatest MC of all time.

[louder]

"Marcy Me" is honestly BREATHTAKING.

THE WORDS JAY IS SPITTING, GODDAMMIT. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME. AHH SO GOOD.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

There's a "Fu-Ge-la" sample? That's legit. Maybe Jay is finally "rhyming like Talib Kweli" on this one? That's the impression I got from the samples.

On the flip, y'all don't like "Picasso Baby"? That was actually one of my fav MCHG tracks. "I never stuck my cock in the fox's box" and all.

Ok, number 1:

Jay has always been able to rhyme like Talib Kweli (who, by the way, has sucked to the point of becoming a basic non-entity over the past several years) ... the issue, in Jay's mind, was that he had decided to be lyrically inferior. And I'll say, on 4:44, he's rapping from his heart, not doing acrobatics. But the result is stronger than anything I've heard from either artist in some time.

Number 2:

"Picasso Baby" has its good parts, but, again, it features JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE VOCALLY SAMPLING KURT FUCKING COBAIN. That is NOT OK.

Also, Jay totally stuck his cock in many a fox's box — an error in judgment he addresses on this album in a surprisingly heartfelt and genuine-sounding way.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

This album.. so mature, so layered, and far from gimmicky.

If Jay retires with this one, he might as well go down as the greatest MC of all time.

That's the thing with Jay. Yeah, he's an extremely good emcee, but he's spent a lot of time doing shoddy work. I don't think I'd call him the greatest. I do like to call him the Muhammad Ali of rap, because that just seems appropriate AF.

Also, yes, he can and probably should retire as soon as possible now. That's how good this album is.

[Severian]

Louder, at what point do you think Jay starts/stops talking about Kanye in "Kill Jay Z?"

Originally Posted by JAY-Z

You walkin' around like you invincible
You dropped outta school, you lost your principles
I know people backstab you, I felt bad too
But this 'fuck everybody' attitude ain't natural
But you ain't a Saint, this ain't KumbaYe
But you got hurt because you did cool by 'Ye
You gave him 20 million without blinkin'
He gave you 20 minutes on stage, fuck was he thinkin'?
"Fuck wrong with everybody?" is what you sayin'
But if everybody's crazy, you're the one that's insane

It's confusing with the way the song is laid out as a self-monologue. He seems to slip into talking TO Kanye at one point, then talking to himself ABOUT Kanye immediately after.

Some sources like TMZ are saying it's at the "you dropped out of school" part, but Jay dropped out too, (of high school).
They're also saying that the "you the one that's insane" part is directed at Kanye too, but that would mean he flopped back to the second-person (and back) AGAIN over the course of one verse.

just curious about what your take is.

I hope they figure their shit out. I hope Kanye isn't crazy for good now.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Severian

Ok, number 1:

Jay has always been able to rhyme like Talib Kweli (who, by the way, has sucked to the point of becoming a basic non-entity over the past several years) ... the issue, in Jay's mind, was that he had decided to be lyrically inferior. And I'll say, on 4:44, he's rapping from his heart, not doing acrobatics. But the result is stronger than anything I've heard from either artist in some time.

Number 2:

"Picasso Baby" has its good parts, but, again, it features JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE VOCALLY SAMPLING KURT FUCKING COBAIN. That is NOT OK.

Also, Jay totally stuck his cock in many a fox's box — an error in judgment he addresses on this album in a surprisingly heartfelt and genuine-sounding way.

Doesn't JT do Nirvana on "holy Grail?" Am I remembering wrong?

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Louder, at what point do you think Jay starts/stops talking about Kanye in "Kill Jay Z?"



It's confusing with the way the song is laid out as a self-monologue. He seems to slip into talking TO Kanye at one point, then talking to himself ABOUT Kanye immediately after.

Some sources like TMZ are saying it's at the "you dropped out of school" part, but Jay dropped out too, (of high school).
They're also saying that the "you the one that's insane" part is directed at Kanye too, but that would mean he flopped back to the second-person (and back) AGAIN over the course of one verse.

just curious about what your take is.

I hope they figure their shit out. I hope Kanye isn't crazy for good now.

What TMZ says makes no sense to me. I'm convinced that all the "you's" in the song are directed at himself.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

Doesn't JT do Nirvana on "holy Grail?" Am I remembering wrong?

Uhh... I thought it was "Picasso," but I could be wrong.

Either way, wherever it happens THAT SHIT IS FUCKING UNACCEPTABLE.

Out of loyalty to Jay after having been a fanboy since like '97, I am pretty sure I deluded myself into defending the song at first. Not the Nirvana part, but the JT part(s) in general. However, that was silly and stupid of me and I want to restate that *Nsyncing Nirvana is UN-THE-FUCK-ACCEPTABLE and TERRIBLE in every way.

Low point of Jay's career. Low point of fucking JT's career. Inexcusable and wrong.

[Severian]

But anyway...

NR you should let Louder send you a copy of 4:44 because it's goddamn worth it. Not as worth it as Pablo, which you wouldn't let me send you a copy of, so I'm not expecting you to say yes, but yeah. Good fucking shit.

And yes, Jay and No ID sample the FUCK out of "Fu-Ge-La" in the best possible way in "Moonlight." Its topical and relevant and clever and does the original song justice. Just a really smart, well-played sample of a great song.

And the Drake disses don't hurt.

[louder]

"Holy Grail" is the song that interpolates Smells Like Teen Spirit. Awful, like I said.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

"Holy Grail" is the song that interpolates Smells Like Teen Spirit. Awful, like I said.

Oh, my bad. I forget. Thought JT turned up at least twice on that album.

[louder]

"Kill Jay Z, they'll never love you
You'll never be enough, let's just keep it real, Jay Z
Fuck Jay Z, I mean, you shot your own brother
How can we know if we can trust Jay Z?"

"You got people you love you sold drugs to"

"You stabbed Un over some records
Your excuse was "He was talkin' too reckless!""

"You almost went Eric Benét
Let the baddest girl in the world get away
I don't even know what else to say
Nigga, never go Eric Benét!
I don't even know what you woulda done
In the Future, other niggas playin' football with your son"

Jesus Christ, Hov. This album is just too good to be true.

[louder]

"Mama had four kids, but she's a lesbian
Had to pretend so long that she's a thespian
Had to hide in the closet, so she medicate
Society shame and the pain was too much to take
Cried tears of joy when you fell in love
Don't matter to me if it's a him or her"

[louder]

Can't get over how Jay keeps going OFF over the Stevie sample on "Smile".

[Severian]

Louder... this video is kinda frustrating because it's narrated in thick ... ahh... "ghetto" vernacular... BUT, it's very important and very significant to the new Jay album and to our mutual friend Kanye and the relationship between those two.

Kanye done with Tidal?

Apparently, Kanye is hot under the collar about his contract with Tidal, and no longer considers himself a part of the company. Why? Because... uhh... well, I guess Tidal never paid him a cent for the ~1.5 million subscribers he that flooded to Tidal when TLOP was running as an exclusive there. Like, not a cent. Nor did they pay him the money they promised him in reimbursements for videos that would be made for the album.

The YouTube video basically takes Kanye's side, but also says Kanye "never made any videos" for TLOP. (???) Buf "Famous" was a Tidal exclusive for a while, and all the videos he made for the album (there were 3 total, 4 if you count the Yeezus season 4 extended "Father Stretch my Hands" clip, and FIVE if you count the video version of the listening party) were all played on Tidal before they became widely available, even if they weren't "exclusives."

So, while I love the fuck out of this new Jay album, I'm a big queefed off at Jay.

I mean, of all the exclusive albums that have dropped over the past few years, no artist has ever pushed as hard for their format as Kanye did for Tidal when TLOP first dropped. He freaking DOUBLED their number of registered users for fuck's sake. He probably kept Tidal afloat for another year with that shit. That's insane. Also, as the video mentions, he also basically gave up album sales for Tidal. And when he changed the album, the changes came to Tidal first.

And he hasn't been paid more than his normal, like, 3.5% "co-owner" share?

Interesting. Makes sense now why he took the album to Apple Music, after saying he never would. Makes sense that he released it on his own website too. I can feel super good about myself knowing that I paid that fucking cash money for the MP3 version AND like $700 in concert tickets.

OH OH OH! And Tidal/Jay is saying. "Heu, if you think you're going to leave, and if you try to make an exclusive anywhere else, we'll sue you."

Which is FUCKED UP. But... BUT... maybe it's a good thing? Maybe it will convince Kanye to abandon streaming exclusives and focus on releasing hard copies of albums on, you know, that fucking LABEL he owns? Like everyone wants him to do? That would be great.

Anyway watch the video.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

What TMZ says makes no sense to me. I'm convinced that all the "you's" in the song are directed at himself.

I kinda thought so too, but some of those lyrics make me question that. It really does seem like he's speaking to Kanye at certain points...

For instance (and please do read this and respond, because I have nobody else to nerd out with over any of this shit), look at this part:

"I know people backstab you, I felt bad too"

^^ OK, that right there... If the whole thing is an inner monologue, and Jay is talking to himself, why would he say "I"?

We're talking about a pretty accomplished songwriter here. He's in the goddamn Songwriters' Hall of Fame for fuck's sake. He wouldn't make the mistake of mixing up his perspectives in the course of a single sentence. In other words, if Jay himself is "you" throughout the song, then who the fuck is "I?" The way I see it, "I" would necessarily have to be Jay, which means that "you" is, at least temporarily, NOT JAY.
Like I said, he's too strong a writer to splice his perspectives unintentionally... but if it's intentional, then that's a different story, and the phrasing is deliberate and means something specific.

To me, this suggests that Jay is definitely switching narrative perspectives, not just making a beginner's mistake.

Do you see where I'm coming from here? What do you think?


ALSO...

"But you ain't a Saint, this ain't KumbaYe"

^^ "Saint" is a bit on-the-nose as a Kanye reference at least, what with, y'know, that massive album in which Kanye compared himself to the Paul the Apostle, aka Saint Paul, and the song and massive fucking tour that were called "Saint Pablo," not to mention the fact that Kanye just had a kid and named that poor fucker Saint. So, again, is he talking to Kanye?

There's also the "KumbaYe" bit. Kind of an obvious 'Ye reference. I feel like the word "KumbaYe" (as opposed to "kumbaya") has turned up elsewhere, perhaps on Watch the Throne somewhere? But I can't think because the part from "Kill Jay Z" is just embedded in my brain.

(NOTE: The official lyrics are obviously not out yet. BET says the "Saint" lyric is actually "you ain't the same..." but Genius (which I've come to trust quite a bit) says it's "Saint," so for now that's what I'm going with.

Fuckin' holler at me about all this shit dog!

[louder]

The "I" threw me off too.. I think he's just speaking about himself from someone else's perspective throughout the whole song, just not sure who that narrative is, but that person wants him dead. He also felt bad for him at one point, alright. Still the same person, in my opinion.

Ye is already "him" so he can't be the narrative, Jay also uses his name directly a line above. The Saint/KumbaYe shit is obviously another Ye reference though.

I just really don't like the switching narratives idea, so I'm trying my best to revoke it.

I'll watch the video in a bit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

The "I" threw me off too.. I think he's just speaking about himself from someone else's perspective throughout the whole song, just not sure who that narrative is, but that person wants him dead. He also felt bad for him at one point, alright. Still the same person, in my opinion.

Ye is already "him" so he can't be the narrative, Jay also uses his name directly a line above. The Saint/KumbaYe shit is obviously another Ye reference though.

I just really don't like the switching narratives idea, so I'm trying my best to revoke it.

I'll watch the video in a bit.

I don't like thinking that he's spending that much time dissing a guy with mental health issues who kept him and his label relevant for so long, and who worked his ass off for him, then surpassed him in popularity and continued to be a supporter and a friend.

I want reasons to not have to feel bad about this. Kanye fans on Facebook are all like, "wow fuck this guy." I just want music to be music.

[Rob Instigator]

what makes you think Jay Z is a NICE GUY? why wouldn't he mouth off on a copycat?