[!@#$%!]

^^ because ratings, probably. which means having idiot appeal.

watching the washington post pre-debate here. on the newspaper website. good to see deep geeks instead of talking heads as commentators

[_tunic_]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I agree Boris' answers to the christmas gift and world leader questions were banal, but why is there this increasing need to give over valuable time to questions that are themselves banal? They only had an hour together. Why waste any of it on this shit? The same with that cringey moment half way through where she got them to shake hands. And the crowd jeering and cheering for their favourite. It's like we've imported the worst side of American political campaigning. Did anyone see that Macron - Le Pen debate a few years ago? No 'look-at-me' moderators. No studio audience. Just them in a room, discussing policy. If we're gonna have these tv debates I'd much rather they were like that than what we got last night.

I disagree. How I wish it would be more like this!
just kidding, of course I agree. Politics should be about politics, not about popularity voting, or who has the most money to invest to attract voters

[h8kurdt]

 

[demonrail666]

Just listened to Corbyn outline Labour's manifesto ...

He claims that he's taking on the wealthy business elite. That they'll be who he'll mainly be targeting for the extra £80bn a year he says is necessary to finance all his spending plans. I can see him needing a fair bit more than that but he says it's costed, so fair enough. All seems pretty straight forward then: this wealthy business elite simply agrees to play ball, operating in a deliberately reduced market while funding 'lifelong' student tuition, the re-nationalisation of mail, rail, water and energy, a free broadband for all program, a 4 day working week and various other goodies. I suppose this wealthy business elite could always just decide to say fuck all that, there's no money to be made here, and simply clear off to invest elsewhere. But Jezza would've figured all that out, I'm sure.

[!@#$%!]

i couldnt tell you who “won” last night’s debate but tulsi came across as such a douche, ugh...

and i think kamala has exhausted her prosecutor schtick. i don’t see any fresh appeal.

my favorite performers for the night were in no particular order: booker, klobuchar, buttigieg, bernie (always has a joke ready), yang.

biden i thought at first was better than in previous occasions, he’s ditched a few verbal tics, but then proceeded to make various gaffes, and his final statement was a political version of devo’s “whip it”. “grab it by the scruff of the neck or “git r done” or something,

warren made no mistakes but her “2 cents” (lol) wealth tax i find problematic as i do her mandatory medicare.

i did some washington poll post, turns out i agree with booker in most things than with the rest. but didnt feel that way when i saw him. still he was good, though he ended the night pleading for the survival of his campaign.

klobuchar said some good things but ultimately she was saying “i can win this”. show me, don’t tell me.

mayor pete was a very fucking good debater and i think he’d make a good vp.

yang was refreshing and seems to have lost his initial shyness.

the field seems split between the leftists and the moderates, with yang thinking outside the box and tulsi living in a different planet.

polls have been showing the contest is biden vs warren. but buttigieg is a better biden, and bernie a funnier warren.

i don’t know anymore lol.

news!

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Just listened to Corbyn outline Labour's manifesto ...

He claims that he's taking on the wealthy business elite. That they'll be who he'll mainly be targeting for the extra £80bn a year he says is necessary to finance all his spending plans. I can see him needing a fair bit more than that but he says it's costed, so fair enough. All seems pretty straight forward then: this wealthy business elite simply agrees to play ball, operating in a deliberately reduced market while funding 'lifelong' student tuition, the re-nationalisation of mail, rail, water and energy, a free broadband for all program, a 4 day working week and various other goodies. I suppose this wealthy business elite could always just decide to say fuck all that, there's no money to be made here, and simply clear off to invest elsewhere. But Jezza would've figured all that out, I'm sure.

But how many of those who have lived here all their lives will all of a sudden up and move to another country. Not that many I suspect.
Don't forget the God knows how many millions and millions in tax giant corporations don't pay. Start closing the loop holes and that's a windfall. I'm gonna read the manifesto tonight to see what's going on.

With that said, don't mistake my views for being blinkered by Corbyn. There are things that there's no way it'll work (nationalising the internet and whatnot), but the alternative of the absolute mess the conservatives have left leave me no doubt that it's the preferable future for me.

In other news, Priti "I'm alright Jack" Patel is still a cunt shocker.

[h8kurdt]

Here's an overview

At a glance: what's in the Labour party manifesto?
As Labour launches its 2019 election manifesto, we break down the details - from Brexit to housing

Health

Labour’s big policy is a promise to increase spending on the NHS by an average 4.3% a year.
The party’s base will be hugely cheered by a pledge to end and reverse privatisation in the NHS in the next parliament and reinstate the responsibilities of the health secretary to provide a comprehensive and universal healthcare system.
A milkshake tax would come into force on top of the existing levy on sugary drinks, as well as a ban on fast-food restaurants near schools and stricter rules around the advertising of junk food and the levels of salt in food.
Free annual NHS dental checkups would be available to all.
A new National Care Service to tackle the social care crisis, with a lifetime cap of £100,000 on the costs of personal care.

Brexit

Labour would rip up Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, negotiate a new one with the EU within three months, and then put the deal to a referendum within six months of coming to power.

Immigration

Labour has come up with a compromise on immigration. It would continue with free movement of people with the EU if the UK votes to remain in a second referendum. If it chooses to leave, immigration rights would be negotiable under a deal, but the party recognises the benefits that free movement has brought.
It pledges to end indefinite detention and close two detention centres – Yarl’s Wood and Brook House – which falls short of the party’s conference motion in favour of shutting all detention centres.
There would be an improvement in the rights of people to bring family members to the UK, an end to minimum income requirements, and changes to the work visa system to make sure shortages in certain sectors are filled.

Education and early years

Labour is sticking with its pledge to scrap tuition fees, the flagship policy from its 2017 manifesto.
Free schools and academies will be brought back under the control of local authorities and communities.
Up to six years of adult learning and training will be free.
The party is promising to close the tax loopholes enjoyed by private schools and will ask the Social Justice Commission to advise on integrating private schools into the state system. This stops short of the motion passed by conference which called for the assets of private schools to be seized.
All two, three, and four-years-olds would get 30 hours of free nursery care a week and paid maternity leave would be extended to 12 months.

Economy

A new £400bn “national transformation fund” funded by borrowing will invest in infrastructure and low-carbon technology. There would be a mandate to lend in line with climate goals and productivity.
Public ownership of the railways, broadband infrastructure, postal services, energy utilities and water, paid for by issuing government bonds.
Free full-fibre broadband for all by 2030.

Tax and pay

A windfall tax on oil and gas companies raising £11bn, based on their contribution to climate change since 1996.
An increase in income tax for those earning more than £80,000.
Reversing corporation tax cuts made since 2010.
A guarantee that VAT will not be increased.
A 5% increase in pay for public sector workers.
A living wage of £10 an hour for all workers over the age of 15.

Environment

Labour is launching a “new green deal” under which it would aim to achieve the “substantial majority” of the UK’s emissions reductions by 2030. This is a watering down of the party’s conference motion that targeted net-zero emissions by 2030.
A new clean air act to improve pollution levels including a vehicle scrapping scheme.
The party would give an extra £5.6bn for flood defences.
Producers will have to pay for the waste they create and new bottle return schemes will be introduced.

Social policy

Labour will introduce A Right to Food to end “food bank Britain”. It would aim to halve food bank usage within a year and remove the need for them altogether in three years.
The party would scrap universal credit – the controversial welfare system brought in by the Tories that has caused benefit delays and hardship.
Benefit cap and the two-child limit scrapped.
An end to “dehumanising” work capability and personal independence payment assessments for those with a disability.
An end to raising the retirement age beyond 66, and maintaining the triple lock on pensions.

Crime and justice

Labour would recruit 2,000 more police officers than the Conservatives and restore prison officer numbers, reversing cuts since 2010.
The party will work to eliminate institutional biases against black and minority ethnic communities, making sure stop-and-search is proportionate.
A Royal Commission will be set up to develop a public health approach to drugs, focusing on harm reduction rather than criminalisation.
A review of the controversial Prevent programme, which aims to reduce radicalisation.
Prisons built under private-finance initiatives will be brought in house and no more private prisons built.

Foreign policy and defence

A war powers act to prevent a prime minister bypassing parliament when trying to take the country to war.
An audit of the impact of Britain’s colonial legacy.
A judge-led inquiry into alleged complicity in rendition and torture; a formal apology for Britain’s role in the Amritsar massacre; allowing the people of the Chagos Islands and their descendants the right to return to their lands; upholding the human rights of the people of West Papua and recognising the rights of the people of Western Sahara.
Labour would commit to spending at least 2% of GDP on defence and initiate a strategic defence and security review.
Full commitment to a standalone Department for International Development (DfID), with an aid budget of at least 0.7% of gross national income.

Housing

Labour would embark on a massive housebuilding programme of social housing, creating more than a million homes in a decade.
A new national levy on second homes used as holiday homes to help deal with the homelessness crisis.
Cities would get the power to impose rent caps and other controls.

Constitution

Labour would work to abolish the House of Lords and replace it with a senate.
The party would scrap the Fixed-Term Parliament Act, which keeps a government in power for five years as standard.
Tighter rules on lobbying and stopping MPs from having second jobs, with limited exceptions.

Transport

Labour would give all councils powers and resources to control bus services – with under 25s riding for free
Renationalise rail – and ensure a safety-trained crew member as well as a driver on every train
Build HS2 and fast northern rail links – and extend high-speed rail to Scotland.
“Aim to” phase out new diesel and petrol cars by 2030
Reform taxi rules to ensure a “level playing field”
Greener, safer and more accessible travel are at the heart of the manifesto, which nails Labour’s colours firmly to the mast with shots across the bow of private transport operators from train and bus firms to Uber. The pledge to have a guard on every train – a £100m annual cost paid by road taxes that the Tories have hypothecated for roadbuilding – would make railways easier for all to use and have the bonus of ending the current industrial disputes. Less firm are targets to bring in cleaner cars earlier, and increase funding for cycling and walking. And Labour retains its fudge on expanding Heathrow, permitting expansion if tests on noise and pollution are met.

Energy

• A £250bn Green Transformation Fund to help put the UK on track for a net zero carbon energy system within the 2030s by investing in clean energy

• Upgrade 27m homes to the highest energy-efficiency standards to eliminate fuel poverty, and save £417 on each annual domestic energy bill by 2030

• Nationalise regional energy networks and the Big Six energy under a UK National Energy Agency responsible for ‘decarbonising’ energy

• A permanent ban on fracking

The Green New Deal represents a bold commitment to plans which are ambitious enough to meet the challenge of the climate crisis but keep hard-pressed homes in mind too. The party plans to invest in 7,000 new offshore wind turbines, 2,000 new onshore wind turbines and enough solar panels to cover 22,000 average-sized football pitches. Part of the costs will be shouldered through a windfall tax on the North Sea. However, a Labour government might struggle to attract private investors to the UK’s green economy after vowing to extend plans to renationalise energy networks to include Big Six energy suppliers too.

[ilduclo]

Tories under fire for fake “fact check” site.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9210151.html

[!@#$%!]

we don’t speak his name here, elon

[!@#$%!]

bibi officially indicted

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

bibi officially indicted

hooo ray! Bout ficking time

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

In other news, Priti "I'm alright Jack" Patel is still a cunt shocker.

Never mind about all that. She's a one woman sexual fetish is what she is.

 

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Never mind about all that. She's a one woman sexual fetish is what she is.

 

She really is. She's an evil cunt and more than a bit stupid, but wow she's blessed with some stunning looks.

[h8kurdt]

Yeah, yeah she's fit but don't she just know it.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

But how many of those who have lived here all their lives will all of a sudden up and move to another country. Not that many I suspect.
Don't forget the God knows how many millions and millions in tax giant corporations don't pay. Start closing the loop holes and that's a windfall. I'm gonna read the manifesto tonight to see what's going on.

We can only speculate about people leaving but a party with serious ambitions for government has to work with the business world, not go out of its way to alienate and demonise it.

I'd be the first to agree that the Tories give too many concessions to business but the solution isn't the kind of 6th form "us vs them" rhetoric being proposed by Corbyn, because for me that manifesto has played straight into the conservative's hands. The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express, The Telegraph, are having a field day tearing it apart and, for once, they're absolutely justified.

Even more liberal papers like the FT, which had become mildly positive about the possibility of a Corbyn government, and is certainly no ally to Boris, is savaging them now.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b35a81e-...6-9bf4d1957a67

[demonrail666]

There might be a paywall on that link so, just in case:

Financial Times: 21/11/19

Labour’s manifesto adds up to a recipe for decline

Jeremy Corbyn’s hard-left programme will wreck the UK economy

Editoral

The Labour party manifesto is nothing more than a blueprint for socialism in one country. The combination of punitive tax increases, sweeping nationalisation, and the end of Thatcher-era union reforms turns the clock back 40 years. Set alongside a vast expansion of the state — based on spending amounting to six per cent of national income — Labour’s plans are a recipe for terminal economic decline.

Whereas previous Labour leaders, from Tony Blair to Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband, accepted the market economy, the hard-left clique around Jeremy Corbyn have elected to replace it with their own statist model. This owes more to François Mitterrand’s socialist programme in 1981 than to a realistic prescription for reforming a modern economy, still less preserving the UK’s treasured status as a beacon for foreign investment.

The tragedy of Mr Corbyn’s Labour party, like so many populist movements, is that it does identify areas that genuinely need fixing. Nearly a decade after the Conservatives returned to power, real wages have still not returned to their pre-crisis peak. Homelessness has risen. Basic public services such as the criminal justice system, social care and local government are dire. Privatised water and rail companies are not delivering for users. Large parts of the population feel excluded from the bright spots of prosperity, mainly in the south-east.

Yet virtually all of Labour’s prescriptions to tackle these challenges are misguided. Mr Corbyn’s original sin is to cast private enterprise as a necessary evil to be managed rather than being part of the solution to the problems his party has identified. The assault on business is an attack on wealth creation.

First, Labour is proposing a staggering increase in taxes — close to £83bn a year by 2023-24, with the bulk coming from higher levies on business investment, much of it being squeezed out of the private sector in year one.

Second, the nationalisation programme goes far beyond anything contemplated in a generation. True, private monopolies in rail and water have fallen short in performance. There is a case for re-regulation or indeed re-examining ownership; but to extend nationalisation to the energy utilities, broadband and Royal Mail is an unwarranted interference which will shatter confidence and deter investment.

Third, the party proposes collective sectoral bargaining over pay and conditions, claiming this “will increase wages and reduce inequality”. It would instead stifle innovation and lock workers out of employment. Similarly, plans for rent control would advantage “insiders” who already rent and push “outsiders” into an unregulated black market.

In some areas, the manifesto is less radical than expected. It has dropped the fantasy target of hitting net zero carbon emissions by 2030, which would require a hugely expensive and near-impossible transformation of the economy. Also gone are proposals to bring private schools into the state sector, and a mooted idea to give private tenants a right to buy their home from their landlord. On security and defence it commits to renewing Trident, remaining part of Nato and keeping to the alliance’s target for military spending of 2 per cent of national income.

The British economy is not broken. It has proven remarkably resilient in the face of Brexit uncertainty. Labour’s plans would exponentially increase the risks to the economy. A responsible centre-left programme to restore fairness and opportunity, to rebuild public services, and preserve private sector incentives, was there for the taking. Mr Corbyn has missed an open goal.

[!@#$%!]

wow

[h8kurdt]

Can't disagree with much there. I'd already said here and felt as soon as he said it that broadband nationalising isn't the way forward not the issue they should be addressing. I also think the idea that the country would collapse as soon as he's get in power is hyperbole. Labour bringing corporation tax back to the levels they were before the conservatives got in power isn't anti-business.

Then again, it's by the by cos Labour won't get an outright majority. So we're left with a different a mess under the conservatives. Fun times.

[demonrail666]

It will be hard for the 'never-Tories' to swallow, but I really think it's in the long-term interests of the Labour party that they lose big next month, if only to force Corbyn out.

Keir Starmer seems like the natural replacement. I may not always agree with him but he does have both feet in the real world and would at least start the process of rebuilding the party into one that's able to mount a realistic challenge to the Tories again.

[ilduclo]

Richies disaster scare tactics bs. Starting the same playbook here in USA. Don’t fall for it.