[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

America were sort of unlucky, although in the second half Brazil were clearly the better side. The build up to America's second goal and Landon Donovan's finish were probably the best moment for either team in the whole game. Brazil didn't do anything really spectacular. They were just able to step up a gear when they needed to.

Here's a highlights clip but it only really shows the goals and some build up. I take it that's it's in Brazilian, judging by the strange jingle that's played every time Brazil score.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoEbwoik1Hc

fucking a, thanks man!

the first american goal was sweet!

jeezus f. christ, the usa 2 brazil 0 , must have been exciting! awesome counterattack indeed. donovan did good.

oh mang, luis fabiano-p under the defender's legs. ching!

hot damn that 2nd goal -- whoa

and #3. oh yeah.

fuck, that must have been an interesting game. boooohoohoooo. hate to have missed it.

thanks again for the link, very entertaining.

now, what am i doing up at this hour, i have no clue.

[demonrail666]

Yeah Fabiano's second goal was the best of the Brazilian ones but the way Donovan wrong footed Ramires for that second one was sweet.

Donovan's a quality player I think. I'm sure he had a decent career in Germany for a few years but, if i remember rightly was set on returning back to the US so he could play for the Galaxy. I'm sure he could've become a bit of a fixture within European football had he not got homesick. Fair play to him though, I think I'd rather live in California than Munich.

[Shifty Prophet]

I think part of the problem here in America with football is you have legitimate talented players that want to play here. Thats fine, find your club at home and start out there, after a while build your career and perhaps transfer to another club in Europe. Serie A, La Liga, The Premiership all would help football in America become more respected and in turn muse many kids to play professional. Yes it is cool to play in your country and with your fans, but I feel if more American players set their aim to become part of the UEFA then, more people here in the states would become fans, and more people abroad would respect American football.

I know there is a long way to go, but maybe in another 10 or so years...

[demonrail666]

I totally agree with that. It's a sad but inevitable truth that a nation's footballing pedigree is gauged primarily on its representation within the major European leagues. In that sense I'd go as far as to say that Brad Friedel long spell at Aston Villa has done more to give credibility to American soccer (both within Europe but, more importantly, the US) than Landon Donovan's return to the Galaxy, or even Beckham's decision to play for them.

[Shifty Prophet]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I totally agree with that. It's a sad but inevitable truth that a nation's footballing pedigree is gauged primarily on its representation within the major European leagues. In that sense I'd go as far as to say that Brad Friedel long spell at Aston Villa has done more to give credibility to American soccer (both within Europe but, more importantly, the US) than Landon Donovan's return to the Galaxy, or even Beckham's decision to play for them.

A good example is Brazil and Argentina. Both football powerhouses, both have leagues which don not posses the prestige found in the UEFA leagues, mainly Serie A, La Liga and The Premiership.

If Brazil and Argentina can't sustain leagues as important to the world as the ones in the UEFA, then what makes the USA think it can?

The people in this country are extremely patriotic and also feel that we can set the precedent for anything. Maybe this attitude is the driving force behind MLS.

I just feel the US football team would be better and more respected had MLS been kept to minor league and the players opted for European transfers.

[jon boy]

i cant fucking believe michael owen is going to the scum! whats going on there?

[o o o]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Donovan's a quality player I think. I'm sure he had a decent career in Germany for a few years

He actually only played a total of 13 games in Germany according to wikipedia. When he was with Bayer Leverkusen, he was loaned to an American club, and came back last year to Bayern on loan I think because of Klinsmann. Now Klinsmann is out, and Bayern will not extend the loan.

Senior career
Years Club Apps (Gls)
2001–2005 Bayer Leverkusen 7 (0)
2001–2004→ San Jose Earthquakes (loan) 87 (32)
2005– Los Angeles Galaxy 107 (58)
2009→ Bayern Munich (loan) 6 (0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landon_Donovan

[demonrail666]

Oh, I thought he played a lot more than that. Fair enough. I know he was touted a bit in Britain for a while.

[Diesel]

OWEN, what a twat he's a midget cripple

AY, disabalist and heightist

Fuck off

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Originally Posted by Shifty Prophet

If Brazil and Argentina can't sustain leagues as important to the world as the ones in the UEFA, then what makes the USA think it can?

The people in this country are extremely patriotic and also feel that we can set the precedent for anything. Maybe this attitude is the driving force behind MLS.

I just feel the US football team would be better and more respected had MLS been kept to minor league and the players opted for European transfers.

The Brazilian and Argentine leagues may not have the entire world watching, or the hype machine banging its drum for their major matches and competitions, but by no means are these leagues not quality. And they are still very important to people within those countries. To a lesser degree the same can be said for MLS.

And I would also argue that having a well run domestic league is extremely important to the development of more quality players, and wider exposure to the game. Americans are not going to get behind a club team from England or Germany just because they have a few players from the States that play for them. There has to be something local and worthwhile too. Which is to say, we've got to have a domestic league, with good domestic players.

Plus, we love sports here, and we love winners even more, wider exposure for MLS and more competitive play from our national side will lead us to the promise land.

[Shifty Prophet]

Originally Posted by Пятхъдесят Шест

The Brazilian and Argentine leagues may not have the entire world watching, or the hype machine banging its drum for their major matches and competitions, but by no means are these leagues not quality. And they are still very important to people within those countries. To a lesser degree the same can be said for MLS.

And I would also argue that having a well run domestic league is extremely important to the development of more quality players, and wider exposure to the game. Americans are not going to get behind a club team from England or Germany just because they have a few players from the States that play for them. There has to be something local and worthwhile too. Which is to say, we've got to have a domestic league, with good domestic players.

Plus, we love sports here, and we love winners even more, wider exposure for MLS and more competitive play from our national side will lead us to the promise land.

I agree we need a domestic league, just dont call it professional or if you do, have the clubs compete against the UEFA clubs, kinda like a champions league.

Brazil and Argentina: Of course they have quality players there, those two countries have pools of talent deeper than most football federations, my point was that the players move on because the money is in Europe, because the competition is in Europe and because the respect is in Europe.

[demonrail666]

The various S'th American leagues are popular domestically and with fans that've emigrated to countries like the US but it's more than just the 'hype machine' surrounding UEFA that would say they're inferior leagues to the ones in Europe. Saying that, I don't know what MLS can do to really strengthen its domestic popularity and worldwide credibility. It's not practical for it to be included in tournaments that would include the elite European clubs. A lot of Britsh clubs visit the US in the closed season, but these are just for friendlies. There have been so many atempts to invigorate MLS over the years but I just think that a mixture of geographical circumstance and cultural indifference will mean that it'll never really take a foothold in the way that it has in countries like England, Italy, Holland, Spain, etc. I know Americans personally who have come to England and are shocked at the sheer amount of public interest there is in football over here. It certainly isn't the case for everyone in England but football is probably about as close to a national obsession that we have. And a lot of that stems from a certain self-loathing joy that comes from seeing the team you support (be it national or league) lose. It's a strange cultural quirk that sees a kind of pride in defeat that I'm not sure is found in other parts of the world. We're like a nation of Red Sox fans, in that respect.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

I think the US has yet to produce the same kind of stars that come from Argentina and Brazil, and then go play abroad to make outrageous salaries. When that player does come up here (Altidore?!) I don't think he'll be playing in MLS for very long. That makes complete sense to me. I just don't think a current US player is of that pedigree yet, and until then, it doesn't hurt to stay stateside.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I know Americans personally who have come to England and are shocked at the sheer amount of public interest there is in football over here.

I'm not sure why an American would be shocked by seeing that? In other words I don't get it.

You've got primarily one major sport, and one major sport league. Why would it be shocking that there is tremendous support for that?

I think you meant to say you're all Cubs fans. There is something universal about that feeling in a way too.

 

[demonrail666]

Well we also have Cricket and Rugby, both of which have domestic leagues as well as a massive following for the international teams, but football definitely pips them. I personally can't compare England's attitude to sport with that found in the US. I can only go by Americans I know who currently live here (and are themselves sports fanatics) who find the way England relates to sport (and in particular football) weird in the extreme.

you're probably right about me meaning the Cubs instead of the Red Sox.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

I guess that kind of hopeless devotion in England has always been very obvious to me. In fact that kind of 'excitement' is a major reason why I was drawn to the sport to begin with.

Red Sox fans used to have that kind of mentality, but having won two World Series titles in the last five years, has made that feeling go away, now they expect to win. Fans of the Cubs are just miserable people.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Пятхъдесят Шест

Red Sox fans used to have that kind of mentality, but having won two World Series titles in the last five years, has made that feeling go away, now they expect to win. Fans of the Cubs are just miserable people.

Haha, yeah. That's what i must've been thinking about. Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of Red Sox jinx or something?

England has this strange habit of demanding success and then, when it comes, turning its back on those who achieve it. Lewis Hamilton winning the F1 drivers championship last year encapsulates that attitude. The build up was a frenzy of people wanting him to win (just as it is at the moment with Jenson Button) but once he did people were taking any opportunity they could to bring him down. The best way to stay a national hero in England is to forever come second (Tim Henman) or to reach the top and then self-destruct (Paul Gascoigne). If Mike Tyson had been English there'd be statues of him in every town square, not for what he achieved, but for how he threw it all away.

[Shifty Prophet]

Originally Posted by Пятхъдесят Шест

I think the US has yet to produce the same kind of stars that come from Argentina and Brazil, and then go play abroad to make outrageous salaries. When that player does come up here (Altidore?!) I don't think he'll be playing in MLS for very long. That makes complete sense to me. I just don't think a current US player is of that pedigree yet, and until then, it doesn't hurt to stay stateside.

Thats why in my original post I said maybe ten years until US football is at that level.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Haha, yeah. That's what i must've been thinking about. Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of Red Sox jinx or something?

Yes, the Curse of the Bambino. There is also a supposed curse on the Cubs too, whose title drought dates back to 1908!!!! Curse of the Billy Goat

[demonrail666]

“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” - Bill Shankly, Liverpool FC Manager.