[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

Nearly one century ago now, Duchamp showed that you could be an artist by exposing a urinal, then André Breton showed how litterature could be created through automatic writing, then junk art showed that any item could be used to create art, then Karlheinz Stockhausen showed how music could be based on aleatoric elements, then John Cage showed how music could be strictly be reduced to pure silence, amongst others.
(and I'm just using some of the most famous examples, of course - I could also mention James Tenney's 3 pages in the shape of a pear)
Now I just don't see why, with all those things that happened in the 20th century and expanded the definition of art, someone who creates music with a computer would not be considered a musician, and an artist.

By that definition everyone in the world is a musician. THAT is why. But I guess if we are going to be THIS vague about things I could agree with even that statement: everyone in the world is a musician then.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

He does not only writes his music but also plays it with his computer, of course.

He isn't playing it, the computer is.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Wow, hev, you're really closed-minded...

No, you have it wrong.... I'm an "artist". My eyes are open now.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

By that definition everyone in the word is a musician. THAT is why.

So what ? Is the word "musician" that sacred that you don't want some people to be musicians ? Everyone who consciously plays music is a musician. Someone who bangs on a pan randomly is not a musician ; someone who bangs on a pan with the intention of creating something, even vaguely, musical (and I take music in its broader sense, that is to say "sound and silence arranged in time" - yes, this is the definition of music), is a musician. Once more, that does not mean they are a "good" musician. The notion of musician means someone who creates music - whether it be by performing it or writing it -, no matter what they use in order to do so.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

He isn't playing it, the computer is.

This has to be the stupidest thing I ever read. Seriously. I could go on and say that a guitarist does not play music, his guitar does. Whenever I play my piano (cause yes, I do not claim all those things because I actually play and write music using my computer : in the first place I'm a classically trained pianist who learnt music in a school for six years), it is actually not me, but the hammers hitting the strings that play music ! Limpid !

[GeneticKiss]

^Well, technically the hammers wouldn't hit the strings unless you hit the keys, but I get what you're saying.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

Is the word "musician" that sacred that you don't want some people to be musicians?

I just think someone who can only program a sampler is no more a musician than someone who can only make collages is an artist.

I guess I weigh more heavily on the "especially" part of the definition of musician:
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : instrumentalist

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

^Well, technically the hammers wouldn't hit the strings unless you hit the keys, but I get what you're saying.

well, just like the computer won't play that music before you get it to do so, actually ! so i think the comparison works

Originally Posted by hevusa

I just think someone who can only program a sampler is no more a musician than someone who can only make collages.

I guess I weigh more heavily on the "especially" part of the definition of musician:
: a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : instrumentalist

Okay, but even then, define an instrument and you will see your wrong. An instrument is a tool used in order to achieve a means : here your means is to produce music, therefore anything, no matter whether it is a guitar, or a computer, or a guy screaming (see : TV Shit), or a tennis racket, or whatever, can be a musical instrument. And consequently, anyone can be an instrumentalist. And consequently, anyone can be a musician.

[GeneticKiss]

Programming samplers and making collages require effort on the part of a human being to work. That human's creativity influences the end result, which in turn requires talent to truly be able to move someone.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

This has to be the stupidest thing I ever read. Seriously. I could go on and say that a guitarist does not play music, his guitar does. Whenever I play my piano (cause yes, I do not claim all those things because I actually play and write music using my computer : in the first place I'm a classically trained pianist who learnt music in a school for six years), it is actually not me, but the hammers hitting the strings that play music ! Limpid !

Seriously? Hitting play on a computer is not the same as playing an instrument (unless you consider people who play guitar hero guitarists)

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

Okay, but even then, define an instrument and you will see your wrong. An instrument is a tool used in order to achieve a means : here your means is to produce music, therefore anything, no matter whether it is a guitar, or a computer, or a guy screaming (see : TV Shit), or a tennis racket, or whatever, can be a musical instrument. And consequently, anyone can be an instrumentalist. And consequently, anyone can be a musician.

I guess samplers are mis-categorized on every music shop's website then, cause they aren't listed under instruments. You better start writing emails...

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Seriously? Hitting play on a computer is not the same as playing an instrument (unless you consider people who play guitar hero guitarists)

why ?

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

I guess samplers are mis-categorized on every music shop's website then, cause they aren't listed under instruments. You better start writing emails...

I guess we dont visit the same shops then, cause they certainly are classified as instruments on the shop where I go.
See :
http://en.euroguitar.com/
http://www.homestudio.fr/
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/

between others (and the french aren't exactly known as forward-thinking as of late)

[GeneticKiss]

Originally Posted by hevusa

I guess samplers are mis-categorized on every music shop's website then, cause they aren't listed under instruments. You better start writing emails...

Wrong: http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfrien...duction-groove

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Programming samplers and making collages require effort on the part of a human being to work. That human's creativity influences the end result, which in turn requires talent to truly be able to move someone.

well said.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

Wrong: http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfrien...duction-groove

MIDI is correct (not an instrument).

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

why ?

Coordination and timing to name a few (the list is long). It doesn't take much talent to use a drum machine. But to keep a beat on a drum set, on the other hand, requires actual musical ability. Same idea with samplers.

[GeneticKiss]

MIDI=MUSICAL INSTRUMENT Digital Interface

It may not take talent to use a drum machine, but creating beats that sound good and move people to bob their heads or dance does.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Coordination and timing to name a few (the list is long). It doesn't take much talent to use a drum machine. But to keep a beat on a drum set, on the other hand, requires actual musical ability. Same idea with samplers.

You are hopeless. I don't even know why I'm still arguing with you while I knew in my very first post that just as any silly stupid rockist (to take Glice's words) centered around his ideology and not willing to depart from it you will not even make an effort to understand why you're wrong, even though people have been explaining it to you a thousand times.
i'll say it one more time : being a musician never required "coordination", or "timing", or anything other than "creating music". now enjoy your close-minded, restricted vision of music. i tried to show you things were not the way you think they are - since they are not -, but ultimately it's not like i really care.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

MIDI=MUSICAL INSTRUMENT Digital Interface

MIDI is the way the sampler interfaces with other gear, though most do it through USB nowadays I believe.