[truncated]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

It's raw, purposely offensive punk rock. Of course it's political. Of course the vocals sound like crap.

Go listen to Sufjan Stevens wax poetic or something.

Perhaps my point has been missed.

If you don't agree with the band's political stance; or, while appreciating what raw vocals lend to certain music, they sound like shit even in that context; hmmm....

I don't adhere to the overinflated grrrrl power feminist movement, and I don't dig screechy chicks.

Therefore, Survey says:

 

I don't see what's so difficult to understand - it's all down to personal taste.

[Toilet & Bowels]

bikini kill sound like n-sync when held in comparison to proper offesive punk female fronted screech like Harry Pussy.

[Savage Clone]

There is plenty of politically-oriented punk music with effective raw vocals and either excellent or effective musicianship.
Bikini Kill does not fall into this category to me.
Ditto what T&B said re: Harry Pussy.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

There is plenty of politically-oriented punk music with effective raw vocals and either excellent or effective musicianship.
Bikini Kill does not fall into this category to me.
Ditto what T&B said re: Harry Pussy.

Yeah, what he said, except much more effectively than me.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

There is plenty of politically-oriented punk music with effective raw vocals and either excellent or effective musicianship.

see X-Ray Spex

[Savage Clone]

See Crass.
Eve Libertine would slay them all.

[pantophobia]

the one band in this whole conversation that gets overlooked very often is Bratmobile

where as Kathleen Hanna off puts a large number of people by her, well i guess you could say grandstanding, someone like Allison Wolfe just dances around like a shot of chocolate syrup adrenaline, with rather clever lines and sometimes biting commentary

and truth be told, Bikini Kill really went on to much better things after they broke up, Tobi formed Spider and the Webs, Kathleen became much better suited in Le Tigre (almost developing an Allison Wolfe personality), and Kathi forming the fucking amazing Casual Dots with Christina Billote

[pantophobia]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

But when did Sonic Youth fans turn into whiny EMO bitches? "Ewwww, it's too political". "Ewwww, her voice is annoying". Haha. Cry me a river.

i haven't seen anybody really whinning here, as so much just filling their diapers with pretension

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by truncated

If you don't agree with the band's political stance;

I don't see what this has to do with the music.

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

I don't see what this has to do with the music.

If they weren't feminist idiots they wouldn't make shitty music. Get it?

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by HaydenAsche

If they weren't feminist idiots they wouldn't make shitty music. Get it?

No. Explain.

[HaydenAsche]

I don't know how to explain it anymore. I was being sarcastic but at the same time I really wasn't. Would you listen to the Sex Pistols if you were a conservative?

[HaydenAsche]

Nevermind. Saturnine hit it spot on.

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by Saturnine

It makes it shittier. There is a reason why I don't listen to Neil Young.

Why should their purpose for creating the music affect our appreciation of it in other manners?

[HaydenAsche]

IT JUST DOES.

There is no rhyme or reason behind it.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

Why should their purpose for creating the music affect our appreciation of it in other manners?

 

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by HaydenAsche

IT JUST DOES.

There is no rhyme or reason behind it.

Well, take a composer like Richard Wagner. His music was strongly nationalistic and strongly anti-semitic, lashing out against Jews. Many people currently enjoy Wagner despite what the music meant to Wagner. The music means something else to its listeners. Should they stop listening simply because they're enjoying it for a different purpose from what Wagner intended?

I'm just saying that if the music has affected me emotionally in a certain way, and then I find out that the artist intended it differently, I had still been affected emotionally in that way. I had related to the emotions put forth in the music. I think the most human (and least "cold" and "precise") thing about art is that everybody can appreciate it in different manners and there isn't only one meaning (that of the artist's).

I don't necessarily agree with Bikini Kill's politics either. But instead of focusing on what's being said, how it's being said is what's important to the song as a piece of music. In my mind.

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by truncated

Didn't mean to offend the genius. Sry guys!

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

I don't see what this has to do with the music.

far be it from me to to speak on other poster's behalf, especially a guttersnipe like hayden asche, but, for me bikini kill weren't about music, their music was secondary to their politics, and this is readily apparent in the quality of their music. listening to what they play on their instruments it sounds thoughtless and conservative.

take for example public enemy, if you subtract their political message you are still left with some very ground breaking, incredibly well thought out, and just plain great music, if you subtract the politics from bikini kill you are left with some very unremarkable punk rock. it's lame when a band uses music solely as a vehicle for their cause.

not to mention that by making an issue out of being female they are automatically segregating themselves and defeating their own purpose.

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

far be it from me to to speak on other poster's behalf, especially a guttersnipe like hayden asche, but, for me bikini kill weren't about music, their music was secondary to their politics, and this is readily apparent in the quality of their music. listening to what they play on their instruments it sounds thoughtless and conservative.

take for example public enemy, if you subtract their political message you are still left with some very ground breaking, incredibly well thought out, and just plain great music, if you subtract the politics from bikini kill you are left with some very unremarkable punk rock. it's lame when a band uses music solely as a vehicle for their cause.

That's fine, I respect your opinion. It just always struck me as standard punk rock. Certainly not groundbreaking, but not anymore thoughtless than your average punk band who bangs away on three chords and screams a lot. It's simple and stupidly defiant.

not to mention that by making an issue out of being female they are automatically segregating themselves and defeating their own purpose.

I thought that was the purpose??