[jon boy]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

oy, preachy vegetarians... i love to eat vegetables, but fuck if my body is going to subsist by just eating plants. what the fuck is wrong with you? does your moral self-righteousness so obsess you that you ignore the demands of your body? if you want to shrink your gonads with soy estrogens, please go ahead. my ancestors evolved by eating everything they could find. they didn't act like rich fucking spoiled wankers by turning down a good meal, they didn't have "eating disorders" and they certainly didn't preach fucked up ideas--they followed their appetites and the wisdom of their bodies. hence they multiplied, survived, and here i am. now i plan to continue this tradition. i figured those people didn't fight for nothing, so i'm not going to throw away their efforts. if you want to self-destruct with convoluted eating schemes, please, go ahead with your ascetic lifestyles, and get high on your perceived moral superiority--but stay the fuck away from our kitchens and tables. really, shut the fuck up already with the sermons. just to piss you off, i'm going to have a big juicy steak today, and while i eat it i'm going to think of you shoving soybeans down your throat, and i'll have a good laugh. fucking wankers.

(this should have gone in the rant thread porkie started but-- eh!-- the whole board is fit for ranting).

its ok, mummy will give you a hug, look she's just over there. now put down your colouring in book and go over and everything will be alright. go on off you pop.

[!@#$%!]

 

[jon boy]

i didnt know you could cook your own shit?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by jon boy

i didnt know you could cook your own shit?

blah blah blah

 

[!@#$%!]

fucking puritans

 

[Rob Instigator]

speaking of, did anyone else catch the anthony Bourdain show yesterday where he ate with the busshmen of the kalihari and ate roasted anus, unwashed, that the chief had just squeezed the feces out of?
gnarly egg ommellet from ostrich cooked directly on hot dirt? fucking insane show!

[!@#$%!]

kill a preacher today

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

speaking of, did anyone else catch the anthony Bourdain show yesterday where he ate with the busshmen of the kalihari and ate roasted anus, unwashed, that the chief had just squeezed the feces out of?
gnarly egg ommellet from ostrich cooked directly on hot dirt? fucking insane show!

fucking a. imagine if those poor bushmen were confined to eating grasses because of some fucking new age missionary.

now, what kind of anus was this? sounds interesting. i've eaten intestines (the small as... chitterlings, the large as, well, sausage casing). did the guy like it?

and that ostrich story just reminded me i need to buy eggs.

[jon boy]

 

see thats what i think about so i dont eat meat. simple. i dont tell anyone not to eat meat its my own personal choice.

it seems that the americans cant quite understand that people dont eat meat. such was my experience when visiting the states.

now why dont you stop embrassing yourself and we will say no more about it.

[!@#$%!]

and what is that picture of exactly? is the kid wondering when the lambchops will be served? he sure needs some if he's going to grow.

[jon boy]

see what i mean about americans. porkies right, they are so easy to wind up.

[noumenal]

This is pretty interesting too:

http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/c...rs/Reconst.pdf

Um.

[noumenal]

Steven Pinker sums up the argument about human evolution and meat-eating in his book "How The Mind Works" (he gets a lot of his ideas from the authors of the article above):

"The key is to ask not what the mind can do for hunting, but what hunting can do for the mind. Hunting provides sporadic packages of concentrated nutrients. We did not always have tofu, and the best natural material for building animal flesh is animal flesh. Though plant foods supply calories and other nutrients, meat is a complete protein containing all twenty amino acids. Across the mammals, carnivores have larger brains for their body size than herbivores, partly because of the greater skill it takes to subdue a rabbit than to subdue grass, and partly because meat can better feed ravenous brain tissue. Even in the most conservative estimates, meat makes up a far greater proportion of foraging humans' diet than of any other primate's. That may have been one of the reasons we could afford our expensive brains."

Moving on, he explains:

1. Moving to the savanna made hunting more appealing
2. Eating meat allowed humans to move to higher altitudes and latitudes; there are no vegetarian eskimos.
3. Meat is a major currency in human social life in that it encourages reciprocity & whatnot
4. Meats figures strongly into sexual politics.

Of course, he isn't arguing against vegetarianism, but just explaining something about human evolution. I'm not suggesting that this has something to do with what modern humans should eat.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by noumenal

Steven Pinker sums up the argument about human evolution and meat-eating in his book "How The Mind Works":

"The key is to ask not what the mind can do for hunting, but what hunting can do for the mind. Hunting provides sporadic packages of concentrated nutrients. We did not always have tofu, and the best natural material for building animal flesh is animal flesh. Though plant foods supply calories and other nutrients, meat is a complete protein containing all twenty amino acids. Across the mammals, carnivores have larger brains for their body size than herbivores, partly because of the greater skill it takes to subdue a rabbit than to subdue grass, and partly because meat can better feed ravenous brain tissue. Even in the most conservative estimates, meat makes up a far greater proportion of foraging humans' diet than of any other primate's. That may have been one of the reasons we could afford our expensive brains."

Moving on, he explains:

1. Moving to the savanna made hunting more appealing
2. Eating meat allowed humans to move to higher altitudes and latitudes; there are no vegetarian eskimos.
3. Meat is a major currency in human social life in that it encourages reciprocity & whatnot
4. Meats figures strongly into sexual politics.

once again what does this have to do with jay-lo being bum rushed by peta on an anti fur tip?

why do people bring up the subject of ancient man in the subject of vegetarianism? as if it makes any diffenece now to me here. i know lets post a pic of a steak and tell everyone how they are going to eat one tonight etc that sure is a good argument.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by jon boy

see what i mean about americans. porkies right, they are so easy to wind up.

pish, pish-- so yout think that because your posts are joyless, glum, and devoid of any passion-- they make you somehow better than others?

oh, the comedy...

and don't quote porkie. he lives in a world beyond your comprehension.

[Rob Instigator]

[quote=jon boy]

 

see thats what i think about so i dont eat meat. simple. i dont tell anyone not to eat meat its my own personal choice.
[quote]

would you rather we butchered our animals out in the desert like these fine Bushmen?

 

Here is an interesting article

"Evolving to Eat Mush": How Meat Changed Our Bodies

Hillary Mayell
for National Geographic News

February 18, 2005

Meat-eating has impacted the evolution of the human body, scientists reported today at the American Association for the Advancement of Science's annual meeting in Washington, D.C. Our fondness for a juicy steak triggered a number of adaptations over countless generations. For instance, our jaws have gotten smaller, and we have an improved ability to process cholesterol and fat.

Our taste for meat has also led us into some trouble—our teeth are too big for our downsized jaws and most of us need dental work.
"It's really amazing what we know now that we didn't know 15 or 20 years ago," said Mark Teaford, a professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University. Teaford helped organize a panel discussion on human diet from a number of perspectives:
• How did the ability to eat meat shape the evolution of humans?
• What can we learn about early humans from tooth shape?
Carnivorous humans go back a long way. Stone tools for butchering meat, and animal bones with corresponding cut marks on them, first appear in the fossil record about 2.5 million years ago.
How Did Meat-Eating Start?
Some early humans may have started eating meat as a way to survive within their own ecological niche.
Competition from other species may be a key element of natural selection that has molded anatomy and behavior, according to Craig B. Stanford, an ecologist at the University of Southern California (USC).
Stanford has spent years visiting the Bwindi Impenetrable Forest National Park in Uganda, Africa, studying the relationship between mountain gorillas and chimpanzees.
"It's the only forest where mountain gorillas and chimps both live," he said. "We're trying to understand the ecological relationship—do they compete for food, for nesting sites?" The key difference between chimps and gorillas ecologically is that chimps eat meat and gorillas don't. A total herbivore is able to coexist with an omnivore because they have significantly different diets.
"From there we can extrapolate back to what two species of early humans may have done vis-à-vis each other two or three million years ago," Stanford said
Better Fat Processors

When humans switched to meat-eating, they triggered a genetic change that enabled better processing of fats, said Stanford, who has worked extensively with gerontologist Caleb Finch of USC.
"We have an obsession today with fat and cholesterol because we can go to the market and stuff ourselves with it," Stanford said. "But as a species we are relatively immune to the harmful effects of fat and cholesterol. Compared to the great apes, we can handle a diet that's high in fat and cholesterol, and the great apes cannot.
"Even though we have all these problems in terms of heart disease as we get older, if you give a gorilla a diet that a meat-loving man might eat in Western society, that gorilla will die when it's in its twenties; a normal life span might be 50. They just can't handle that kind of diet."
Diet and Teeth
Tool-use no doubt helped early humans in butchering their dinners. But there is evidence that the advance to cooking and using knives and forks is leading to crooked teeth and facial dwarfing in humans.
Today it's relatively rare for someone to have perfectly straight teeth (without having been to the orthodontist). Our wisdom teeth don't have room to fit in the jaw and sometimes don't form at all, and the propensity to develop gum disease is on the increase.
"Virtually any mammalian jaw in the wild that you look at will be a perfect occlusion—a very nice Hollywood-style dentition," said Peter Lucas, the author of Dental Functional Morphology and a visiting professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. "But when it comes to humans, the ideal occlusion [the way teeth fit together] is virtually never seen. It's really the only body part that regularly needs attention and surgery."
Lucas argues that the mechanical process of chewing, combined with the physical properties of foods in the diet, will drive tooth, jaw, and body size, particularly in human evolution.
Essentially, by cooking our food, thereby making it softer, we no longer need teeth big enough to chow down on really tough particles. By using knives and forks to cut food into smaller pieces, we no longer need a large enough jaw to cram in big hunks of food. "We're evolving to eat mush," said Bernard Wood, a paleoanthropologist at George Washington University.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

pish, pish-- so yout think that because your posts are joyless, glum, and devoid of any passion-- they make you somehow better than others?

oh, the comedy...

and don't quote porkie. he lives in a world beyond your comprehension.

no, but i really dont understand what that has to do with peta and jay lo? but if you feel the need to carry on being foolish then please continue because its way to easy to wind you up.

[!@#$%!]

ah those bushmen look like they are having fun.

[noumenal]

Originally Posted by jon boy

once again what does this have to do with jay-lo being bum rushed by peta on an anti fur tip?

why do people bring up the subject of ancient man in the subject of vegetarianism? as if it makes any diffenece now to me here. i know lets post a pic of a steak and tell everyone how they are going to eat one tonight etc that sure is a good argument.

Oh, I was just adding some interesting info about the topic that had already been established. And I posted an article about pork production earlier that is really good and probably supports your side of the argument, whether you want to have it or not. Let's slow down a bit. I'm not really interested in joining the back-n-forth, but I think I have a lot of cool articles and things to add to the discussion (which has veered in this direction), like Rob's above. Click my links - i think they're usually good reads. Also, I posted this under what you quoted:

"I'm not suggesting that this has something to do with what modern humans should eat." Chill out.....

[jon boy]

no rob i would prefer it if people didnt butcher animals at all.

anyway i am off to have something to eat now so i will leave you to bicker like old women amongst yourselves. ta ra.