[Rob Instigator]

everyone should be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. In day to day life? I would rather err on the side of a victim and then have to apologize to someone falsely accused, than to side with the accused and then have to apologize to a sexual assault victim for not believing THEM.

everyone always believes that a woman was asking for it. load of horseshit.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone should be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. In day to day life? I would rather err on the side of a victim and then have to apologize to someone falsely accused, than to side with the accused and then have to apologize to a sexual assault victim for not believing THEM.

everyone always believes that a woman was asking for it. load of horseshit.

Thanks rob.. unfortunately some folks here living in that Saudi prince mentality

[dead_battery]

robs mentality is to blindly assume a rape victim is a rapist because someone who is female says so, and "fuck him" because who cares anyway, he writes dark music. basically rob isnt even interested if gira did it or not, he's already made up his mind.

this is an inverted/identical version of the old "shes a woman shes a lying whore dont listen to her" thing

which is what you guys are fighting against right?

fucking geniuses

2 wrongs dont make a right

-

meanwhile talentless larkin grimm releases new song dedicated to survivors of abuse while scrubbing original posts from her fb. also she's touring and we should go see her and give her support!

yale taught her entitlement like it does if it cant teach you any actual knowledge or skills and now gira is the latest person to be thrown under the bus in recompense for her failing career.

these people are bred to be entitled to use you and feel no guilt.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone always believes that a woman was asking for it. load of horseshit.

I totally agree......however, everyone is also responsible for their actions.

Choosing to drink more than you regularly do and inviting someone into bed with you are NOT invitations for rape, but they are no doubt choices she now regrets!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

I totally agree......however, everyone is also is responsible for their actions.

Yes especially Gira

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

I totally agree......however, everyone is also is responsible for their actions.

Yes especially Gira

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

dead_battery just shut up already. You got your foot so far down your throat its coming out of your ass smelling like shit

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone should be treated as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. In day to day life? I would rather err on the side of a victim and then have to apologize to someone falsely accused, than to side with the accused and then have to apologize to a sexual assault victim for not believing THEM.

everyone always believes that a woman was asking for it. load of horseshit.

Yes, I can get on board with this.
Legally speaking, its innocent until proven guilty (though the burden of proof does not lie 100% on the accuser in all situations and all states), but it's still important to take any claim of violence seriously when we're discussing issues like rape in open forums, and trying to decide where our personal allegiances lie.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

this is all in such bad taste.

nasty comments towards everyone's comments on an otherwise nasty believable or not accusation.

bad taste guys. im ashamed I played apart in this nasty fiasco.

That's what I thought when I was hemming and hawing about posting this. I thought it would be unnecessary and stupid and tacky, but like I said, we never talked about the Jackie Fuchs/Kim Fowley allegations, and I didn't bring it up because it made me uncomfortable. But this is the kind of thing that needs to be talked about, partly because of how uncomfortable it is.

Nobody's trashing anyone here. Well, some are, but most aren't.

This is a board populated by fans of punk and its various subgenres. Not only that, but the people on this board are quite intelligent and opinionated about social issues and politics. I think it's partly our duty to talk about this and to listen to one another, and to avoid sweeping this shit under the rug.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather risk being wrong than say nothing and let myself fall in with the folks who don't talk about difficult of ugly issues when they have to do with respected figures in their community.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I thought it was important Severian and i am glad you posted it. If we are gonna talk about Swans we NEED to talk about this. I just hope Kim isn't lurking to see some of the bonehead comments here

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

rape is a touchy issue. it can bring out the worst in both sexes. some of the comments and opinions on an unjustified issue can extract nasty opinions from the brain based on personal experiences. your environment, who you know and what you've been through can encourage yr posts on here too. we have to take that into account. it's more or less unrightfully easy to prove than murder or stealing. it's all said so from word of mouth of the accuser and non-accuser victim. that's all im saying.

rape is disgusting but this is for the courts to decide with more facts.

Dude its cut and dry and the two or more people involved in the sexual act know EXACTLY what it is. Stop tap dancing, its fine if you want to wait to reserve judgement BUT don't kid yourself like rape is something subjective to define.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

we aren't the DA. fuck this shit. it's not up to us to decide and make verdicts.

No we're not so i don't know why so many rushed in to call her a liar and then slut shame her when we don't know at all. What we do know is an accusation has been made and until we know otherwise we have reasonable suspicion. Its not like Gira was in a different time zone pr something so its hardly impossible

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

yes, but it's much more obscurely definable than any other crime. unless you have a sexist preferable mind.

you have two people with two say sos. the evidence please!!

so your saying if someone claims it, then it must be true?

Not at all, but what i AM saying is that if someone claims it we (a) have no right to crassly dismiss it and (b) definitely have no right to attack the credibility of the accused. Indeed many times women are raped precisely because they lack credibility so that is why we have to take it seriously until proven otherwise.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

yes, but it's much more obscurely definable than any other crime. unless you have a sexist preferable mind.

BULLSHIT. its never ambiguous or obscure to define. Its 100% cut and dry. NOW if what you mean to say is without more evidence its hard to know IF it happened than fine that is indeed true but whatever did happen if it was RAPE is cut and dry. Sorry. Perhaps the one being sexist is you?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

For example point blank no one here has said "oh Gira did it" BUT what is a insensitive and shit perspective is for those who said "oh she is lying" without a shred of evidence to suggest that she is. We don't know one way or the other so we can't say anything about her until we do

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

Look, I've read just as much bullshit reasons why he did it just as much reasons to support her supposed claims.

they're both guilty. one of rape and one of lying.

Dude. Quit why you are at least not any worse behind

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

dis is what im saying G.

No its FAR from what you have actually been saying

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

if your so righteous about this shit and yr thoughts on law, then why don't you judge the fucking trial yrself then.

Hey don't be mad at me, you the one saying dumb shit!

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

I did say it. why back. I can see you get hotheaded about this. im out this thread and you should do the same too.

I ain't hotheaded in the least, but i will call out dumb shit. Sometimes in SYG our dumbshit is fine or tolerable, i for one will always call out dumb shit about rape! I ain't got no beef with ya my brother but i ain't gonna look the other way about some of the comments here including yours.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

I tried to PM you..
Look this isn't about you. But i did call out your comments about both her likely lying and in particular your comments that rape is obscure to define or ambiguous. I also called out those others who used slut shaming or attacked her character or personality as if that made a difference. Promiscuous women or "bitches" get raped too. Women who lack credibility can still have been raped.

Further i even went after the comments that "she bore some responsibility" as this is blame the victim. No one is to blame if they are raped but the rapist, period. I love ya bro but it is what it is.