[krastian]

I have a serious question about rastafarianism. Why do/did they exile and undermine women and homosexuals until at least the 1970's, yet claim that no person is more priviledged than another in the basic truth of life and that everyone is equally bonded with God, or Jah.....ie "I and I." That sounds just as hypocritical as a lot of Christians claiming to be "compassionate" when that couldn't be farther from the truth. There isn't anything positive about hate.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Haile Selassie died though. He was a good guy and all, but saying he is the second coming of Jesus? I'm pretty sure in the 2nd coming Jesus takes all the saved people to the promised land, the world ends, and God kicks the devil's ass. Haile Selassie was king of Ethiopia for awhile, said he wasn't Jesus, and was not a rastafarian, he never did anything truly truly amazing in the scale of time, and he died a normal death.

Also, why is it ok for a Rastafarian to smoke dope when they are on the Nazarite Vow, when part of the vow entails not using substances?

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by krastian

I have a serious question about rastafarianism. Why do/did they exile and undermine women and homosexuals until at least the 1970's, yet claim that no person is more priviledged than another in the basic truth of life and that everyone is equally bonded with God, or Jah.....ie "I and I." That sounds just as hypocritical as a lot of Christians claiming to be "compassionate" when that couldn't be farther from the truth. There isn't anything positive about hate.

I'm pretty sure that still goes on today.

Jesus told prostitutes and thieves that he would see them in heaven. MANY Christians seem to overlook that. Odd isn't it that people who follow the bible act just like some of the people negatively portrayed in it? That is human nature for you.

[krastian]

Yeah I know. It's sad. You are right, some of that shit probably still goes down. That one idiot dancehall singer said that he wrote that song which encourages violence on Jamaican homosexuals because of the "beliefs of his religion," Rastafarianism. I and I my ass. Shenanigans.

[Glice]

The Brits here might remember an excellent interview on the Word with Mark Lamarr laying into Buju Banton for his homophobia. It was a perfect portrayal of a lot of people's problems with Rastafarianism. I'm not going to go so far as to criticise it, but, like every religion (and this includes Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism etc) there is a difference between those who practise, those who believe and the strict interpretation of the religion itself (that is, religious texts admit ambiguity while presenting dogma).

I can't seem to find the clip on youtube, anyone out there know the one I'm on about?

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

I know some crazy far right zealots. These people say that you have to take the whole bible literally, that either its evolution or genesis, no in-between. These same people however believe that Jesus didn't turn water into wine, but into grape juice, because they've dealt with alcoholics--that nobody should drink alcohol. I'm pretty sure you can't retcon religion. These same people look down upon gays, jews, and others despite the biblical passages concerning judgement. Then they say that you have to baptized as an adult to go to heaven, and the gospels imply that no physical act is required. I'm pretty sure the thief that was crucified on the same day wasn't baptized.

These same people seem to think that the US government is divine and there law is as high as that of the bible's. A local minister happened to serve a youth group communion with wine and he was heavily chastised for breaking the law and corrupting minors, that he was giving these children a taste for wine and leading them to sinful alcoholism. That turning 21 somehow makes you mature enough to handle alcohol. Bullshit I say.

That's pretty much why I don't go to church.

[Glice]

Yeah, I concur with the political resistance to politico-religion, I get very annoyed when people conflate these people (zealots, or idiots as I like to call them) with the people who have faith, but not as a means to political/ ethical sanctity - I always come back to 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. I personally struggle a lot with my Catholicism, but I'm certainly far from being an atheist - the most important thing is that I don't really want my faith, however confused and strange it is, to be the part of my personality that informs my arguments. But this gets into a whole different kettle of fish - loosely, I agree entirely with most criticisms of religions as political entities.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Rasta say Guidance and Protection!
Rasta say Guidance Everlasting!

Greetings in that divine and most precious name of Our Lord And Savior Iyesus Kristos, who in this day has revealed himself in the personality of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, crowned King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, on November 2, 1930.

Further Greetings to and from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, once scattered abroad, but now being regathered by the divine works of Our Beloved Prophet, Brother Gad, Peace Be Unto Him!, founded on the island of Jamaica on February 25, 1968.

Greetings in the Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox Faith, a faith not of writs nor rights, but an inward function of the heart, born of a mystical incorporation with the Holy Spirit, in plain words, to be born again.

I-Man greet you from the tribe of Naphtali.

lol what?

The Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey said that a King would rise in the East, and that Man's redemption would draw near.

marcus garvey would've told you to shut that shit up. i'm trying to think of a nice way to put this...when garvey said "back to africa", he wasn't talking about white people...at all...not even white people with dreads and bongs who are "down for the cause, jah blah".

It is much more then smoking weed, it is about liberating Africa from the bondage of third world slavery, and any other nation under such bondage. Rastafari is bigger then any of you might realize, so perhaps you all should have more Raspect.

i didn't know that Los Angeles was considered a third world entity! and what's this mess about being liberated from bondage? i'm sorry, man, but white rastas are probably the biggest slap in the face to any other rasta. i mean, how does it look when a white male (the most liberated creature on the face of the earth) says to the black male "yeah, brotha! we gots to liberate i-and-i, jah bless!" it's very similar to when malcolm x opened the muslim mosque in harlem and said, very openly, that they would accept help and donations from white people, but white people could not join, because they didn't understand the problem as deeply as the negro did (and still does). that's not to say that was the only reason he didn't allow white members in the muslim mosque, but that's a whole other tangent.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by krastian

Yeah I know. It's sad. You are right, some of that shit probably still goes down. That one idiot dancehall singer said that he wrote that song which encourages violence on Jamaican homosexuals because of the "beliefs of his religion," Rastafarianism. I and I my ass. Shenanigans.

i think it was beenie man or elephant man who did all that anti-gay stuff. that shit was a trip, because so many of these dudes supporting his music are indeed homosexuals.

[Glice]

It was Elephant Man who did the song about burning homosexuals. Beenie Man got in hot water because of stuff he said in an interview. In the 5 Beenie Man albums I have, he's never explicitly sang anything homophobic, but he hasn't exactly suggested himself to be the most liberal of individuals.

It's something that saddens me greatly, I really, really love dancehall, but so many of their lyrics are quite sickening. Sizzla is one of the best singers of any genre I can think of, but his lyrics are very, very worrying. Beenie Man, believe it or not, has been criticised in some quarters for not taking a strong enough stance on 'white mans decadance', that is, homosexuality.

[val-holla-ing]

you mean to tell me people are saying that he doesn't hate gays enough? wow.

[krastian]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to val-holla-ing again."

[atari 2600]

it's usually the followers of the prophet that royally screw a religion up...

tibetan monks have had their brainwaves observed through EEG technology & their brain chemistry does change in unique, heretofore undocumented ways when they engage in deep meditation. Mahayana Buddhism is a fascinating religion although I believe it does mistakenly ascribe a corporeal form to metaphysical truths. (for instance, the Law of Conservation of Matter & Energy maintains that all the energy in the Universe equals exactly zero.) I do not believe in reincarnation personally. To me, it smacks of a literal form being placed upon a spiritual (because aspects are unknown) occurence.

Each religion refracts its own manifestation out of the archetypal unconscious. So the true test of rastafarianism's mettle would lie not with a criticism of their dogma, but with actually studying them medically & scientifically.

as for rastafaris, as far as i am aware no one has studied their brain chemistry. By the way, the picture of the brain waves of someone on pot that the partnership for a drug free america pac airs was proven to be propaganda. the psa actually shows the brain waves of someone in a coma, not on marijuana.

[krastian]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

i think it was beenie man or elephant man who did all that anti-gay stuff. that shit was a trip, because so many of these dudes supporting his music are indeed homosexuals.

There are quite a few. The song I was talking about is by Buju Banton.
http://www.gwu.edu/~english/ccsc/200...lissaHenry.htm

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Haile Selassie died though. He was a good guy and all, but saying he is the second coming of Jesus? I'm pretty sure in the 2nd coming Jesus takes all the saved people to the promised land, the world ends, and God kicks the devil's ass. Haile Selassie was king of Ethiopia for awhile, said he wasn't Jesus, and was not a rastafarian, he never did anything truly truly amazing in the scale of time, and he died a normal death.

Also, why is it ok for a Rastafarian to smoke dope when they are on the Nazarite Vow, when part of the vow entails not using substances?

To be a Rasta does not proclaiming HIM the returned Christ, but if One site HIM as the Christ, those Ones do not believe HIM died, seen? InI do not see such, but as one of the Rastafari Community, I-man could never relinquesh the divinity of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I!

further InI have been living in the nazarite vow for 5 years now. the vow is as follows
1) no cutting or styling of the hair
2) no contact with dead bodies
3) no consumption of grapes or alcoholic beverages.

this does not include herb, but in some circles limits the use of Herbal teas, as they are intoxicating beverages.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by val-holla-ing

lol what?



marcus garvey would've told you to shut that shit up. i'm trying to think of a nice way to put this...when garvey said "back to africa", he wasn't talking about white people...at all...not even white people with dreads and bongs who are "down for the cause, jah blah".



i didn't know that Los Angeles was considered a third world entity! and what's this mess about being liberated from bondage? i'm sorry, man, but white rastas are probably the biggest slap in the face to any other rasta. i mean, how does it look when a white male (the most liberated creature on the face of the earth) says to the black male "yeah, brotha! we gots to liberate i-and-i, jah bless!" it's very similar to when malcolm x opened the muslim mosque in harlem and said, very openly, that they would accept help and donations from white people, but white people could not join, because they didn't understand the problem as deeply as the negro did (and still does). that's not to say that was the only reason he didn't allow white members in the muslim mosque, but that's a whole other tangent.

you speak from pure ignorance, perhaps what you read in the library or on the internet. that is not Rastafari man, not by a long shot. Marcus Garvey to be specific, said Africa for the Africans, Europe for the Europeans, and Asia for the Asians, and America of the American Indians. He personally did not discourage and white people from working to uplift africa, as long as that was their sole objective. further, Rastafari himself called all Europeans who have the zeal to come to Africa and help to build and rebuild it up to glory. Rastafari is not a racist movement, but I agree with you, MOST white so-called Rastafarians are an insult to Rastafari and black people. They rarely are garveyites with a deep concern for africa, they rarely study the culture and the history, they usually just dread blaze and skank. They are Rastafarians. But within Rastafari, we dont call ourselves Rastafarians, we call ourselves RASTAFARAI! Rastafari are those who see the Truth of the Emperor, and hear His voice calling us all from the bondage of Babylonian captivity. Babylon is a state of mind, not a place or a people.

Further, in regards to yr black movements dissing whtie membership, INI is both a member of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, the largest community and organization within Rastafari, and commune with Nyabinghi and Bobo dread, and attend weekly masses at the Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox Church, where straight Africans accept InI with open arms. Wise up and quite thinking you know more then you do. ask instead of attack and you will learn instead of being corrected. seen?

and lastly, I dont know the last time you were in Los Angeles, but in a city where 3 people are shot dead every day, where 50,000 homeless men women and children wander aimlessly in search of food on streets with multimillion dollar houses. the contrast is the same as in apartheid Johanessburg. 3rd world.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

To be a Rasta does not proclaiming HIM the returned Christ, but if One site HIM as the Christ, those Ones do not believe HIM died, seen? InI do not see such, but as one of the Rastafari Community, I-man could never relinquesh the divinity of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I!

further InI have been living in the nazarite vow for 5 years now. the vow is as follows
1) no cutting or styling of the hair
2) no contact with dead bodies
3) no consumption of grapes or alcoholic beverages.

this does not include herb, but in some circles limits the use of Herbal teas, as they are intoxicating beverages.

Well of course it doesn't say no marijuana, it wasn't really prevalent during those times. But I understand the Nazarite Vow to be to not impurify your body. That is why you don't make contact with dead bodies or consume alcoholic beverages. Marijuana is intoxicating, smoking it is bad for your lungs, and it kills brain cells. Would God really want someone that has taken the Nazarite Vow to be abusing their body in such a way?

[HaydenAsche]

Hey Suchfriends, why are you so for Affirmative Action? That is the peak of racism. Underqualified people are hired to fill a quota.

[val-holla-ing]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Marcus Garvey to be specific, said Africa for the Africans, Europe for the Europeans, and Asia for the Asians, and America of the American Indians. He personally did not discourage and white people from working to uplift africa, as long as that was their sole objective.

marcus garvey was a separatist. don't try and hold him up on some pedastal just because he put Europe for the Europeans, Asia for the Asians, etc., as a footnote to his movement.

Further, in regards to yr black movements dissing whtie membership, INI is both a member of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, the largest community and organization within Rastafari, and commune with Nyabinghi and Bobo dread, and attend weekly masses at the Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox Church, where straight Africans accept InI with open arms. Wise up and quite thinking you know more then you do. ask instead of attack and you will learn instead of being corrected. seen?

no black organization has "dissed" white membership. if you read what i wrote, you would see that i said something along the lines of not allowing people who can't feel the effects of racism and nationalism as deeply. it's the concept of building from within. ever heard of it? your idealism is cute and all, but you're really not teaching anyone anything.

and lastly, I dont know the last time you were in Los Angeles, but in a city where 3 people are shot dead every day, where 50,000 homeless men women and children wander aimlessly in search of food on streets with multimillion dollar houses. the contrast is the same as in apartheid Johanessburg. 3rd world.

the difference between Los Angeles and Johanessburg is that many people in South Africa are in a state of depravity through no fault of their own, while in South Central, we have homeless people wandering the streets because their addiction and vices and just plain shortcomings have led them there. comparing Los Angeles to the apartheid in South Africa is probably the dumbest shit i've ever heard. i don't think the president could even fuck up that bad.

and heaven forbid i actually get BOOKS from *gasp* LIBRARY!

(not to be an asshole or anything, but it severely hurts your argument (and makes it pretty hard to read, generally) when you type it out in patois)

[qprogeny79]

Originally Posted by SpectralJulianIsNotDead

Why does everyone insist that this is the age of reason?

It seems the opposite to me. More the age of "Know-It-Allism," an age where a new pre-historic archaelogical find will be dismissed by experts as a natural formation without even sufficient investigation (Yonaguni.) It seems to me that scientists aren't doing their job of challenging current dogmas with new ideas.

yeah, i meant "reason" as opposed to religious edict and divine command. i'll agree that there can be a certain dogmatic arrogance, especially among philosophers and those in the humanities, that causes people not to even consider other opinions before dismissing them out of hand. but this is still the age of reason in that the intellectual prerequisites for science and the investigation of reality with a view to drawing deductive or inductive conclusions based on the objective evidence have been satisfied -- my point was that you kind of have to wonder why those who are surrounded with such abundant evidence of the efficacy of reason would instead choose to follow its antithesis. (i believe reason and faith are antithetical; for that comment i feel a debate coming. . . .)