[atsonicpark]

.........

end of the thread.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by viewtiful_alan

Nope.. while the albums mild connections to punk make some sense, sabbath can not rationally be associated with the movement. Its their sort of bombast that helped create punk's reactionary music in the first place.
Great band (for about 4 albums anyways) but not really punk.

the true bombast was bloated prog rock, not sabbath man.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

what i always say, is that...both the ramones, as well as the pistols...both covered stooges songs. i think that says something. both bands also mentioned the stooges as being an influence.

ramones covered chuck berry

does that make chuck berry punk?

NO

it makes them rock n rolllllllll

[atsonicpark]

End Of The Thread.

[atsonicpark]

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[domic]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

not the sound,the feel.
you misunderstand me comparing the sound,there are definite differences.These tunes feel like anarcho-chaos punk tunes,Subhumans,Aus Rotten,Crass,Allergic to Whores,the feel is what connects these bands.They feel the same level of angst at same subjects,and so theyre related.It seems Black Sabbath was pissed off at the same things punks were few years later,and Sabbath wrote an tunes about nuclear war,the corruption and depravity of the political system and pitfalls of military-industrial complex.

I AGREE. War pigs, electric funeral and hand of doom are actually the first rock metal punk songs recorded. Punk in the feel and attitude, angst-rock metal doom in sound, and the sirens at the beginning of war pigs sounds like an introduction to a punk album. Alot of angst against those who have power that screw with or screw over mostly the fellow man, and women and children. We just want whats right in the world, we don't need their crap.

[Severian]

The first punk album was White Light/White Heat. That’s my timeline. Period.

Also I don’t think there’s anything punk about Sabbath. There are certainly similarities between metal and punk, but... no. Paranoid was not the first punk album. Or a punk album.

[Savage Clone]

There are plenty of savage teenage garage 45s pre WL/WH by many years that are extremely "punk" in spirit and sound.
I believe Suicide were the first to refer to their music as "punk" on a show poster circa 71.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

There are plenty of savage teenage garage 45s pre WL/WH by many years that are extremely "punk" in spirit and sound.
I believe Suicide were the first to refer to their music as "punk" on a show poster circa 71.

I know, but I think WL/WH cemented whatever was floating around in the periphery of the zeitgeist at the time. Took the Stooges and Ramones and Suicide and Pistols and blah blah to really hammer it into what it became, but fuck man... I can think of virtually no songs that are more “punk” in sound and spirit than “Sister Ray.”

Whatever. Long as you don’t think it was Paranoid.

[Toilet & Bowels]

I heard punk was first used in ref to NY Dolls. Not saying Clone is wrong (I expect he is right) , just comparing scraps of info.

Anyone who thinks Paranoid is the first Punk record needs a punch in the head.

If yr going down the route of calling proto-punk stuff punk (cf Velvet Underground) which it isn't anyway, I see yr White Light/White Heat and raise you a Churchmice "Babe We're not a Part of Society".

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

I heard punk was first used in ref to NY Dolls. Not saying Clone is wrong (I expect he is right) , just comparing scraps of info.

Anyone who thinks Paranoid is the first Punk record needs a punch in the head.

If yr going down the route of calling proto-punk stuff punk (cf Velvet Underground) which it isn't anyway, I see yr White Light/White Heat and raise you a Churchmice "Babe We're not a Part of Society".

But Savage Clone is talking about proto-punk stuff too. Honestly, anything that was punk before punk was a thing is proto-punk, so the first punk album either has to be proto-punk by necessity or we’re talking about something else. Like, the the first album to be referred to as punk or the first band to refer to itself as punk are both very different from the first punk album.

Anyway, I respect your opinions and stuff, but I’m still going with WL/WH after years of careful consideration. Not only because of the song structure or attitudes or the gazillion punk bands that were influenced by it, but also because of the decisions made on the album with respect to presentation, mixing, mastering, etc. There was a deliberate effort on behalf of the musicians to unsettle and disquiet, both sonically and lyrically. There was corrosive quality to the music that dared people to listen to it, and even the chill moments are filled with really bizarre and risqué stories and themes.

WL/WH is the first album I can think of where a band with any amount of buzz or interest (however small) decided to do pretty much everything they could to piss off an alienate people. Title track alone is mixed like a spider drowning in cotton candy. Last track is 17 minutes of two-chord mayhem. ‘S’fucking punk, man.

Again, just my take.

[Rob Instigator]

I thought the first punk record was Louie Louie? hahahahahaha

[demonrail666]

 

(It isn't the 1st punk album, obviously, but a lot of jazz from that era seemed to have more punk spirit than plenty of albums that are considered to be.)

[Severian]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

 

(It isn't the 1st punk album, obviously, but a lot of jazz from that era seemed to have more punk spirit than plenty of albums that are considered to be.)

For sure!

[the ikara cult]

more Cooley resurrections please

[SonikJesus]

It's the Ramones. If you think anything else, yr just a hipster. When the Ramones came out, that was the sound no doubt. That was the birth. That was the blueprint.