[Trasher02]

More noise, less bitching.

[porkmarras]

Insightful that,trasher.

[whorefrost]

I love Whitehouse, think Throbbing Gristle kind of suck though... but even refeing to my New Blockaders sig, you should be able to tell I am aware of the history of noise within popular music (as opposed to earlier experimentation within classical avant-garde composition)
The point is, in the early days, noise was nowhere near as popular as it is now. There was no internet, no Volcanic Tongue, no Ecstatic Peace website with videos...
The fact that you question the merit of releasing another noise record indicates that you have observed the current avalanche of noise recordings and the presence of a vast underground network that is slowly emerging to the surface... case in point, Wolf Eyes, who have toured the states with Sonic Youth and put out a record on Sub Pop.. a feat that a noise band in the early 80s could never have concieved of... Noise in the 80s was an alternative to punk and was very marginalised... today, noise is becoming a replacement to punk and is reaching more and more mainstream coverage.. (although whether it will gain any sort of popularity is another matter)..

[porkmarras]

Whorefrost:
I love Whitehouse, think Throbbing Gristle kind of suck though... but even refeing to my New Blockaders sig, you should be able to tell I am aware of the history of noise within popular music (as opposed to earlier experimentation within classical avant-garde composition)

Porkmarras:
I've never questioned this.After all,it is easier to purchase music today that it certainly was,say,10/15 years ago.It can only be a good thing.

[Savage Clone]

Well, Throbbing Gristle were able to make a living without day jobs doing what they did at a time when it was far more confrontational and far less accessible, but I don't really think if them as a "noise band" at all (though they explored it for sure). I doubt even the most successful of today's "noise bands" can say that.

[porkmarras]

whorefrost:
The point is, in the early days, noise was nowhere near as popular as it is now. There was no internet, no Volcanic Tongue, no Ecstatic Peace website with videos...
The fact that you question the merit of releasing another noise record indicates that you have observed the current avalanche of noise recordings and the presence of a vast underground network that is slowly emerging to the surface... case in point, Wolf Eyes, who have toured the states with Sonic Youth and put out a record on Sub Pop.. a feat that a noise band in the early 80s could never have concieved of...


porkmarras:True,but where does this aply to certain rules of quality control that are inherent to most,erm,music scenes?See what happened to the hundreds punk bands that polluted the punk scene back in the day and remain(for the most part rightly)forgotten by most.Accessabilty to music making is not necessarily a good thing and that's why punk means less to me to me than probably it means to you(if i got you right).

[porkmarras]

Throbbing Gristle were losely thinking a noise band.They had disparate elements to their sound to just pin them down to a specific category.A difficult task to achieve for most bands that one.

[whorefrost]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

porkmarras:True,but where does this aply to certain rules of quality control that are inherent to most,erm,music scenes?See what happened to the hundreads punk bands that polluted the punk scene back in the day and remain(for the most part rightly)forgotten by most.Accessabilty to music making is not necessarily a good thing and that's why punk means less to me to me than probably it means to you(if i got you right).

No, I agree, that most punk bands remain quite rightly forgotten.. it was a fad, much as noise could be perceived to be now.. i don't necessarilly see why this renders it any less artistically valid... I think bands like Wolf Eyes who release a new limited CD-R each week are kind of pursuing a perverse hobby as opposed to pursuing any sort of standard musical career... it is more like an on-going art project, mimicking philosphies of industrial production, much like Throbbing Gristle were intersted in doing as I understand... I'm not a huge fan of punk myself, had a brief phase a few years ago... regarding accessability to music, well I play in a noise band myself and I think the quote about noise "being more fun to play than to listen to" definitely applies a lot of the time... But there are still gems appearing all the time, recordings and live actions by noise bands that are completely exhilarating... due to the prolific nature of noise artists, these gems can be harder to find...

In summing up, I would say that a lot of noise is throwaway, tedious, self-indulgent... but in a way, that's kind of the point...

[Toilet & Bowels]

yeah but punks in the 70s were starting from again from scratch more or less, noise musicians today are part of a tradition that includes crazed masterpieces already like merzbow's rainbow electronics, for example. so when the bar has already been raised to a certain level people should put more effort and consideration, and most of all self-editing into what they are doing.
i guess one of the problems with nosie is that it is very difficult to find out about, and hear older noise music, seeing as that stuff was released in such minute quantities, and when but mostly if that stuff gets reissued it seems to be on high priced reissues, or part of boxsets or whatever, and in equally minute runs.
maybe that is the fate of noise, a style that will always be victim to it's own obscurity.

anyway golden child, ultimately listening to what guys like him have to say isn't going to help you, if you're talented you will make good music, and if you aren't no ammount of reading will help you get better. i think one of the problems with noise also is that it attracts a far higher ratio of talentless individuals that other styles of music. and also due to the lack of apparent technical focus in noise, nobody is encouraged to try and master their instrument, they just swap to a new one when they tire of/run out of ideas with whatever they are playing. but if you look at long standing noise musicians, like borbetomagus for example, or jojo hiroshige, those guys have been playing the same instruments for 25 years, and they're making better music than almost any of the new crop of noise groups.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by whorefrost

No, I agree, that most punk bands remain quite rightly forgotten.. it was a fad, much as noise could be perceived to be now.. i don't necessarilly see why this renders it any less artistically valid... I think bands like Wolf Eyes who release a new limited CD-R each week are kind of pursuing a perverse hobby as opposed to pursuing any sort of standard musical career... it is more like an on-going art project, mimicking philosphies of industrial production, much like Throbbing Gristle were intersted in doing as I understand... I'm not a huge fan of punk myself, had a brief phase a few years ago... regarding accessability to music, well I play in a noise band myself and I think the quote about noise "being more fun to play than to listen to" definitely applies a lot of the time... But there are still gems appearing all the time, recordings and live actions by noise bands that are completely exhilarating... due to the prolific nature of noise artists, these gems can be harder to find...

In summing up, I would say that a lot of noise is throwaway, tedious, self-indulgent... but in a way, that's kind of the point...

Wolf eyes are a case in point.I enjoyed greatly listening to their music both live and on record(live they are just something else though) because they play like people who are having wild fun while also being totally serious about what they do.I think that it is right to say these qualities are missing from the vast majority of so called 'noise makers'(and the same thing can be applied to most types of music for that matter).

[porkmarras]

whorefrost:In summing up, I would say that a lot of noise is throwaway, tedious, self-indulgent... but in a way, that's kind of the point...

porkmarras:the new blockaders made a whole 'music career' out of such a statement.See where it's taken them.

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I know what you mean, scott. It's pretty affordable now for musicians of modest means to make recordings that sound "good," even if your overall aesthetic is "trashy." I see no reason not to make things sound good if you can do it. Good sound does not have to mean "annoyingly slick," and too many musicians seem to think bad sound= "keeping it real" or something.
It has more impact if turning up the volume can be done purely for the sake of making the music LOUDER, as opposed to just "more audible."

i fully concur... especially with the "keeping it real" attitude that seems to go along with it. would this also explain the reason that people are paying $90 on ebay for a cassette containing a crap recording like scott v described so accurately? are they the real noise fans "keeping it real"?

i have some sort of unwritten rule nowadays that i tend to buy just "proper" releases and skip buying cd-rs and what have you not. i occasionally break this rule at random when buying a cd-r at a gig or just sometimes when it's someone i'm really interested in (like fursaxa a while ago) but in case of for instance wolf eyes i won't have any of it until they release their next album on sub pop.

[golden child]

anyway golden child, ultimately listening to what guys like him have to say isn't going to help you, if you're talented you will make good music, and if you aren't no ammount of reading will help you get better. i think one of the problems with noise also is that it attracts a far higher ratio of talentless individuals that other styles of music. and also due to the lack of apparent technical focus in noise, nobody is encouraged to try and master their instrument, they just swap to a new one when they tire of/run out of ideas with whatever they are playing. but if you look at long standing noise musicians, like borbetomagus for example, or jojo hiroshige, those guys have been playing the same instruments for 25 years, and they're making better music than almost any of the new crop of noise groups.

nobody is born talented.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by golden child

nobody is born talented.

But some latch onto talent at an early age.

[golden child]

fuck that, anyone can do anything they want whenever they want. they just have to have the motivation, dedication, and passion to do it, no matter if you are 10 or 100.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by golden child

fuck that, anyone can do anything they want whenever they want. they just have to have the motivation, dedication, and passion to do it, no matter if you are 10 or 100.

All things that can be spotted from childhood generally.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by golden child

fuck that, anyone can do anything they want whenever they want. they just have to have the motivation, dedication, and passion to do it, no matter if you are 10 or 100.

that's complete bullshit, otherwise the world would be full of amazing artists, musicians, actors and sports players.
and by this i mean eveyone would be persuing their dreams rather than working at whatever dull job they have. of course, you can do anything you like, but only the talented people are going to be good, and they are born with the ability to be better than everyone else.

[porkmarras]

Exactly!!

[pokkeherrie]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

All things that can be spotted from childhood generally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV_X1S7WYaI

[Tokolosh]

The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance.

Aristotle