[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Rooney especially is a very different player to Messi. Rooney is one of the best readers of the game I've ever seen. He may not be spectacular in what he does but his awareness of what's going on really is second to none. In that sense I'd put him closer to Totti - with a far better workrate. Ronaldo is closer to Messi but, I agree, not as good a player. The decision between Rooney and Messi though, far from being moronic, is more down to criteria. In a free-flowing footballing situation (as Messi faced against Arsenal) I'd go with the Argentinian over anyone right now. In a tight, physical battle against a more defensively minded side though, I'd probably favour Rooney.

In terms of comparing Messi with Maradona, I think they're about the same in terms of raw talent, but so far Messi has achieved everything with an already brilliant Barcelona side while Maradona pretty much singlehandedly led an otherwise fairly average Napoli side to the Serie A title.

And I completely agree about Essien.

Yeah i take your point about them being very different players, its just that for the last few months we've had everyone on the TV, newspapers, radio saying "rooney is the best in the world" without much more than a mention of Messi, if that.
Something that people miss out about Messi is he isnt a flair player who stands around, he closes down and works to get his team the ball if he doesnt have it, in the same way Rooney does. The best forward players know it doesnt matter if you win the ball yourself, its about making the opposition play the difficult pass, which they both do brilliantly.


I never saw Maradonna play so i cant chip into that arguement, the only comparison I can make is Zidane and for me Zidane stands above him at the moment, because Zidane reached his peak in his late 20's/early 30s. We cant tell if Messi could be that type of player at 30. Id say Fabregas definitely can, so can Rooney.

For me its between Messi, Fabregas and Rooney to be the best of this generation, that ive seen anyway

[the ikara cult]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Because I'm bored/trying to avoid doing some actual work, my team of the decade, based on a 4-4-2:

1 - Buffon (GK)
2 - Maldini (LB)
3 - Ferdinand (CB)
4 - Nesta (CB)
5 - Thuram (RB)
6 - Ronaldinho (LW)
7 - Zidane (CMF - Attacking)
8 - Essien (CMF - Defensive)
9 - Christiano Ronaldo (RW)
10 - Totti (STR)
11 - Raul (STR)

Subs:

GK - Chech
DF - Ashley Cole
DF - Zanetti
MF - Kaka
MF - Roy Keane
FW - Drogba
FW - Eto'o

Manager: Mourinho (even though I can't stand him)

I've not included Messi or Rooney because they look more like they'll come into their own during this decade rather than the last one.


Argentina may have the playing talent but Maradona's tactical awareness is zero. They'll be ok when they're able to boss a game from the beginning but against a well organised side they'll be hopeless.

It's still Spain for me.

I was gonna quibble with your choices, but this is one of those things that is not worth arguing about in the pub, let alone the internet

(Id still have Lampard in there though)

[chicka]

So the match this morning was a heartbreaker, Man U. beat Man City in the extra time period 1-0 with 18 seconds left on the clock. Interesting game as both team missed some beautiful chances especially Rooney who was substituted for. Explain that to me if he's supposed to be one of the best why do they substituted for him? Also Abedoyer for Man City who seemed like one of the better players was also substituted for. Taves was the man for Man City it appeared. Anyways Chelsea's going to have to earn it...

[demonrail666]

Rooney's carrying an injury so it's debatable whether he should be playing at all. I don't know the story behind Adebeyor's substitution but it's normal for players to be substituted towards the end of a game if they're looking tired or to change tactics. Anyway, Tottenham beating Chelsea has blown the title race wide open.

Originally Posted by The Ikara Cult

Yeah i take your point about them being very different players, its just that for the last few months we've had everyone on the TV, newspapers, radio saying "rooney is the best in the world" without much more than a mention of Messi, if that.
Something that people miss out about Messi is he isnt a flair player who stands around, he closes down and works to get his team the ball if he doesnt have it, in the same way Rooney does. The best forward players know it doesnt matter if you win the ball yourself, its about making the opposition play the difficult pass, which they both do brilliantly.


I never saw Maradonna play so i cant chip into that arguement, the only comparison I can make is Zidane and for me Zidane stands above him at the moment, because Zidane reached his peak in his late 20's/early 30s. We cant tell if Messi could be that type of player at 30. Id say Fabregas definitely can, so can Rooney.

For me its between Messi, Fabregas and Rooney to be the best of this generation, that ive seen anyway

The blind Rooney-worship is a bit irritating, even though I do think it's ultimately justified. It does get a bit annoying though when the people doing it were only half aware that Messi even existed before the Arsenal game.

I totally agree with your point about Messi being more than just a flair player. I don't think he's as effective tracking back as Rooney but that's a size issue more than anything to do with skill or commitment. Going forward though, Rooney isn't even in the same league as Messi. Again, they're such different players. I think that's why the Maradona comparison keeps coming up (besides the obvious Argentina connection). It makes sense in a way that wouldn't with say Zidane (who I personally rate above Maradona) Messi's style/role is almost uncannily identical with Maradona's. I'd be more fascinated if a player emerged that could be compared with Zidane - at least potentially (Fabregas?).

I agree with your three candidates for best player of their generation but can't agree about Lampard being a player of the decade. I'm already disagreeing with my own list, but not to the extent that I'd include him.

[chicka]

Another thing that I have hard time with is what the hell is offsides and what isn't. Guys are always in front of the ball but sometimes it's offside but most of time it is not?

[demonrail666]

just being in front of the last defender doesn't necessarily make a player offside. they need to be interfering with play in some way too. There's endless debates about what qualifies as interfering with play, hence lots of dubious referee decisions. There's loads of even weirder rules now, involving things like 'phases of play', which has made the off-side role even more esoteric than it was before. I read an interview with a player recently who said even he wasn't completely sure what qualified as off-side now.

[SonicBebs]

to cut a long story short (and this might even be wrong)
if you are in front of (goal side) the last defender when the ball is played forward, you're offside. But only if your classed as "interfering with play". If the ball is played backwards toward you but there's no defenders your ok (it was not played 'forward'). if the ball is shot from another player and goes straight in but your standing in front of the keeper your offside because your interfering with the keeper (be it his line of vision or obstructing him or just getting in the way and putting him off). If your injured to one side you'll be ok because by you cant interfere with play if your on the floor. If your playing against Man Utd you'll probably be offside. If your in your own half you can't be offside no matter where the other players are.
and stuff

[SonicBebs]

saying that FIFA will probably change it all and bring in new rules to trial a week before the world cup, meaning no one will know what the fucks going on. It'll probably involve the postion of club mascotts and weather the "playing part" of the body is wearing the "offside braclett" which must be passed from player to player 5 times each half

[SonicBebs]

 

[chicka]

so it is as confusing as I thought. I see my boys from Everton are in the lower half of the league. Is the regular season winner (most points) the champs or do they have playoffs and if they have playoffs how many make it?

[SonicBebs]

in the premiership its the most points wins. Bottom 3 get relegated to the division below (the Championship). Top 4 get to play in the Champions League (european football) next season as well.

In the lower divisons the top 2 get promoted automaticaly and the next 4 enter play off's to determin the 3rd team to win promotion

[demonrail666]

No, in the premership there aren't any playoffs. The team with the most points at the end of the season win. The top four teams play in the champions league. (hence the current interest in Tottenham and Man City, both of whom are fighting for that 4th spot).

Everton are probably my 'second' team. Moyes has been working wonders with very little money. It's hard to see them break into the top four with such a lack of funds but, for what they've got, they're a great team I think.

[PAULYBEE2656]

 

GO ON THE SPURS!!!!! best week ever!!! now for united!!!!!!

thats all i have to say!



c.o.y.s.

[chicka]

 

What's up with Neville and Scoles

[chicka]

Well this morning's game was Man U against Totteham 3-1 Man U playing without Rooney. Nani was the man today. Puke a few times and scored.
Griggs had 2 on penalty kicks. Will Chelsea get it done?

[demonrail666]

Yeah. There's growing fears about Rooney's fitness so close to the World Cup. I'm gonna watch the highlights of the Spurs Man U match. Chelsea are a long way from getting it done. It's in their hands but I can see them dropping points somewhere along the line in their last three games against Stoke, Liverpool and Wigan. Man U's, against Sunderland and Stoke is a bit easier - although I'm convinced Stoke could be a banana skin for either of them. Either way, the Chelsea Liverpool game is gonna be huge.

Far more importantly, West Ham look to have almost certainly avoided relegation.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah. There's growing fears about Rooney's fitness so close to the World Cup.

mhuaaahaahaaahaaahaaa!

(sorry, i had to say that)

i always favor south american teams-- no matter which one-- we 3rd worlders gotta stick together-- magical realism & what not!

[demonrail666]

I imagine if you asked English fans, most would say their second national team is brazil. There's a romance about a country that once had a player called Socrates while we have to content ourselves with names likes Crouch.

Although I do get a bit fed up during World Cups, when the commentators waffle on about 'the beautiful game', and 'samba football' whenever Brazil play, a style they haven't played since the early 80s. They'll have one or two flair players but the rest of the team are really solid and quite workmanlike. There's certainly nothing about today's Brazil that comes anywhere even close to this.

[space]

dear demonrail666,

mom says "hi"!

I say "yr welcome".

kindest regards,

yr past-future step-son

 

[demonrail666]

Good God, It's Gidget!!!!!!