[pbradley]

Least successful troll attempt ever with my previous reply.

[Moshe]

A Homemade Genocide

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

neither. fuck em all.
fucking idiots, the lot of em...

im pretty sure that this sums up the entire thread

[Confucious is sex]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

Not sure if you're up on your geopolitics, but the IDF has been attacking the Hamas security installations in Gaza-- this is not a blanket attack on Palestinians, thought some people sure would like to paint it that way. Last I heard, there aren't any Apache gunships entering the West Bank, which is governed by Fatah. Hence, Israel vs. Hamas, that's what it is going on at the moment.

I am aware of this; the comment was more a response to those people who were trawling out their unupdated opinions on the Israeli Palestinian conflict without considering that Hamas, though governing the territories, is not quite the same entity as your lay-Palestinian.

[Confucious is sex]

Originally Posted by Radioactive Poltergeist

"Bad tenancy". Ha. You are employing the technique of tyrants and murderers everywhere, twisting words to mask the reality of what is going on. Use plain English to describe what is going on, not an elaborate series of euphemisms.

Also, I have no idea what your incoherent mumblings in your second paragraph are alluding to. Are you suggesting that because Molotov cocktails are thrown at the vehicles of an occupying force that the saturation bombing of urban areas is somehow justified? And what do you mean "they were armed by Israel".

1. If 'bad tenancy' constitutes elaborate euphemism to you then I am not sure how much further we can continue this discussion.
2. I take your point that cloaking atrocities in euphemism removes an element of response to real situations and takes the discussion into the realm of the semantic, but by the same token, surely you can see that the deliberate use of dysphemism performs precisely the same function?
3. I deliberately did not mention whether or not either side was 'justified', merely expressed some factual information to balance the discussion somewhat; Israel provided the Palestinians with an armory, hence, armed by Israel.

[Confucious is sex]

Finally (sorry, I have been responding as I read), Radioactive Poltergeist, you are aware, are you not, that returning to pre-67 borders would mean that Israel got all of Jordan back? And, therefore, their original attempt to house displaced Palestinians in a country that is vastly superior, in terms of size and originally-Palestinian population, would be irradicated? I am also sure you are aware that Israel offered a Palestinian state as part of the '48 partition and it was refused by the Palestinians because they wanted more of Jerusalem? Or are these facts inconvenient for your reactionary twisting of the 'truth'? And don't believe for a second that you can argue with what has just been said because the fact is that at best I have provided you with information that directly contradicts your understanding of the situation, at worst, I have employed the same methods as you ie taking some information I know, exaggerating and twisting it and reconstituting it to win an argument, hoping that everyone else posting is terrified of my rhetorical flourishes.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Confucious is sex

I am aware of this; the comment was more a response to those people who were trawling out their unupdated opinions on the Israeli Palestinian conflict without considering that Hamas, though governing the territories, is not quite the same entity as your lay-Palestinian.

oh! -- oh...

sorry-- interweb misunderstandings

[!@#$%!]

Washington Post article claiming that the recent attacks have actually revived Hamas:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...901901_pf.html

i've linked you the printable page which i believe requires no password to read

[ricechex]

"Not sure if you're up on your geopolitics, but the IDF has been attacking the Hamas security installations in Gaza-- this is not a blanket attack on Palestinians, thought some people sure would like to paint it that way. Last I heard, there aren't any Apache gunships entering the West Bank, which is governed by Fatah. Hence, Israel vs. Hamas, that's what it is going on at the moment".

Yeah, unfortunately it is seen by Palestinians as a blanketed attacked on all that is Palestinian or "Arab" even. And IDF has killed many, many, non Hamas members.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Confucious is sex

Finally (sorry, I have been responding as I read), Radioactive Poltergeist, you are aware, are you not, that returning to pre-67 borders would mean that Israel got all of Jordan back? And, therefore, their original attempt to house displaced Palestinians in a country that is vastly superior, in terms of size and originally-Palestinian population, would be irradicated? I am also sure you are aware that Israel offered a Palestinian state as part of the '48 partition and it was refused by the Palestinians because they wanted more of Jerusalem? Or are these facts inconvenient for your reactionary twisting of the 'truth'? And don't believe for a second that you can argue with what has just been said because the fact is that at best I have provided you with information that directly contradicts your understanding of the situation, at worst, I have employed the same methods as you ie taking some information I know, exaggerating and twisting it and reconstituting it to win an argument, hoping that everyone else posting is terrified of my rhetorical flourishes.

'Ee, 'ello ducky, y'alright?

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Moshe

A Homemade Genocide

I don't know, the besieging of Gaza by the Israeli military for nearly the past two years has a bit more than nothing to do with it don't you think? You can't even get household tools and hardware to make small repairs into Gaza because Israel is so fucking paranoid of getting attacked, meanwhile they only fuel the flames in Gaza with such excessive force.

"Hunger before the storm
Sameh A. Habeeb writing from the occupied Gaza Strip, Live from Palestine, 25 December 2008

 

Queues form at a Gaza bakery as bread becomes scarce.
Israeli politicians, in the run-up to elections, are promising to deal a severe blow to Gaza as this is how Israeli policy is made. However, every household in Gaza is already under siege. In Gaza you can only find pale, angry and frustrated faces. If you visit my house you won't find power, while my neighbor is out of gas. Another neighbor seeks potable water as power outages have left him without for four days. A third neighbor desparately looks for milk for his child but does so in vain. Another friend who lives on the corner needs medicine that can't currently be found in Gaza.

There is no shortage of such stories in Gaza (though there is a shortage of nearly everything else). Perhaps broadcasting such stories would result in pressure on Israeli leaders to stop the siege. Because what is happening is that the entire Gaza population of 1.5 million -- densely packed into a small area -- is being punished for crude rockets being fired into Israel by a few.

Shaher Mazen, 25, holds a degree in political science but works as a taxi driver to put bread on the table for his family. I spoke to him while I was on my way to some of the Gaza bakeries to cover some news that was happening there. Shaher was frustrated because of siege and furious towards the two rival Palestinian governments, considering them as weak in the face of Israel.

Mazen said, "We are under an organized Israeli media campaign. We are being starved and victimized by Israel. The world think we are besieging Israel, not the other way around. Israel is playing up the issue of rocket fire to besiege us more and more."

 

Flour is now a precious commodity in Gaza. Al-Shanty bakery in Gaza City is one of the Strip's largest, supplying tens of thousands with bread. Yesterday, hundreds of people crowded outside the bakery in a very long queue, waiting for a bag of bread. Children, women and men were awaiting the chance to buy some bread, which has become scarce as Israel has not allowed the import of adequate supplies of flour and cooking gas.

"Our bakery is out of bread for days now and what we have will only last for another 24 hours. In fact, we stopped our work yesterday as we ran out of flour. Now, we use animal feed which will finish in a matter of hours," explained 24-year-old Abed Masod while he busily worked at the bakery.

A woman's voice arose above the crowd. She started to scream and appealed to God for salvation and relief from Gaza's dire situation. Forty-five-year-old Om Ali Shoman's weary face bore the impact of Gaza's suffering. "This is our destiny," she said. "It's a conspiracy designed against us. What did my children do to stay at home with no bread? Did they fire rockets? Did they kill Israelis? Are they holding guns?"

Only about a dozen of Gaza's 47 bakeries are currently operating as of yesterday, but with rapidly diminishing supplies. The UN agency for Palestine refugees (UNRWA) had to stop its food aid deliveries because Israel has not allowed it to replenish its stores. This affects 750,000 refugees in the Gaza Strip.

Gazans fear that the worst, however, is yet to come as the Israeli government renews its threats of a major offense against the Gaza Strip, irrespective of the civilian toll an invasion would inevitably incur.

Time is running out in Gaza and mass starvation looms as Gaza's skies are further darkened with threats of an Israeli military incursion. As a journalist, peace activist, and one of the hundreds of thousands of Gazans who are being collectively punished by Israel, I urge those who read this to appeal their governments to hold Israel accountable to international law, including the Fourth Geneva Convention, article 33 of which forbids the collective punishment of a civilian population. Though it unilaterally removed its illegal settlement population from the Gaza Strip in 2005, Israel has remained in control of Gaza's borders, sea and airspace, as well as its population registry, and remains the occupying power, and as such is obligated to abide by international humanitarian law, including the Fourth Geneva Convention.

I urge readers to press their governments to force Israel to respect the countless United Nations resolutions that affirm Palestinian rights, and which Palestinian leaders demand must be immediately implemented.

Please don't let Gaza's plight be forgotten, and urge those around you to act as well.

All photos by Sameh A. Habeeb."

[Moshe]

Since Israel doesn't occupy Gaza anymore I don't see why it should worry about the palestinians who live there (and voted for a party that aims to destroy Israel). Theyhould get their supplies from Egypt (the same way they get their arms).

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Moshe

Since Israel doesn't occupy Gaza anymore I don't see why it should worry about the palestinians who live there (and voted for a party that aims to destroy Israel). Theyhould get their supplies from Egypt (the same way they get their arms).

Israel won't let them remember? Thats why it is called a SIEGE.

don't you remember when the Palestinians stormed the fence to get into egypt to by things like water and toilet paper? that lasted all of three days...

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Israel won't let them remember? Thats why it is called a SIEGE.

he means these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#Smuggling_tunnels_in_Rafah.2C_Gaz a_Strip

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

he means these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#Smuggling_tunnels_in_Rafah.2C_Gaz a_Strip

no, he means what he said. what a small group of terrorists and militia men do to arm themselves is irrelevant to how a million and a half people are supposed to get food, water and supplies. Israel will see, Tel Aviv will be swamped with sewage as the Palestinians haven't been able to properly treat their waste water, because it takes 14 consecutive days for the treatment facilities to complete the task, and they haven't had 14 days with a black out in 3 years because of fuel shortages directly caused by the blockade.. so the raw sewage of a million people is dumped into the Mediterranean every day..

[Moshe]

[quote=SuchFriendsAreDangerous]no, he means what he said. what a small group of terrorists and militia men do to arm themselves is irrelevant to how a million and a half people are supposed to get food, water and supplies./quote]

million and a half people who voted for a small groups of terrorist that offers to destroy Israel. I'm not happy about this situation but the Palestinians should be accountable for the actions. They asked to be free, now they should learn how to deal with it.

[Moshe]

http://www.aish.com/movies/15seconds.asp

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Moshe

million and a half people who voted for a small groups of terrorist that offers to destroy Israel. I'm not happy about this situation but the Palestinians should be accountable for the actions. They asked to be free, now they should learn how to deal with it.

fucked up.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

no, he means what he said. what a small group of terrorists and militia men do to arm themselves is irrelevant to how a million and a half people are supposed to get food, water and supplies. Israel will see, Tel Aviv will be swamped with sewage as the Palestinians haven't been able to properly treat their waste water, because it takes 14 consecutive days for the treatment facilities to complete the task, and they haven't had 14 days with a black out in 3 years because of fuel shortages directly caused by the blockade.. so the raw sewage of a million people is dumped into the Mediterranean every day..

i dont know what this revenge by caca means, but here's the irony:

hamas has the wherewithal to smuggle missiles, weapons, and the such-- but no flour?

Originally Posted by Moshe

million and a half people who voted for a small groups of terrorist that offers to destroy Israel. I'm not happy about this situation but the Palestinians should be accountable for the actions. They asked to be free, now they should learn how to deal with it.

well, to be fair (i do not want to be one-sided), they aren't exactly "free" as israel controls (more or less) the borders, the sea, the airspace, the population registry, etc. so it's not exactly "freedom".

but if you could please clarify the border situation, i'd appreciate it. who controls what, at this point?

--
now, to compare the both: before the attacks, israel sent cellphone warnings to civilians to move away from houses that served as weapons storages-- hamas would never extend the same "courtesy" to israeli civilians as it merrily shoots its missiles.

[Moshe]

How the hell do you want Israel to act against an entity who declares it seeks the destruction of Israel?
Well Israel did send fuel, gas, food, medicine into Gaza while the Palestinians continued to fire rockets towards Israel. The time has come to say enough. The Hamas was warned last week to stop the fire but refused to do so. Israel MUST take care of its own security. The Palestinians should ask themselves now if they did they right thing by supporting Hamas over Fatah.
I know that war is stupid but living in the middle east teaches you sometimes that there is no other way.