[Severian]

Originally Posted by Kuhb

I've long since stopped trying to intellectualise why I have pet hate musicians. We all know the reason we have them is because they remind us of the cooler-than-thou guy we used to see at parties in high school. That's why I can't stand Mike Patton for a millisecond

This I can understand. Not that I'm reminded of high school thick-necks by Trent Reznor, but I can see how other people might be. In that case it's conditioning, and it's emotional, and I understand that.

For instance, I like Black Flag, and even some Rollins Band shit, but Henry Rollins has always reminded me of a particularly immature kind of loud, intimidating meathead that I knew as a teenager. I actually did not have a negative experience in high school (at least, not until my senior year, when this almost existential claustrophobia overtook me and I kind of lost my mind), but I certainly shared space with "too-cool" kids of various stripes, and being a smaller guy — 115 lbs. in 12th grade to be exact — I often felt like loudmouth cunts like the Rollins Jr. were only one disagreement away from kicking the shit out of me.

When you're a small guy, it's easy to feel a bit like you're at the mercy of others. Rollins brings that to mind a bit, and because of that I'll never really like him. I'll listen to My War like there's no tomorrow, but I'll always kind of think, "Fuck you, dickhead," when I think of old Hank.

[Severian]

Back to new music...
Another release that snuck up on me...

Not Waving - Populist

 

Description from Boomkat:
Not Waving takes 2017 by the scruff with his Populist EP, consolidating the myriad stripes of last year's acclaimed Animals album for Diagonal in four extended peaktime hammers forged for darkrooms, basements and warehouses alike; flirting with sleazy New Beat, Acid, noise and deep-raved Italo.

[greenlight]

just heard a track "Scrapes" from upcoming album by Bing & Ruth, No Home Of The Mind coming out in Feb. 17th. blew my mind.


It’s easy to connect Bing & Ruth’s music to minimalist forebears like Terry Riley and Steve Reich, but there’s no resisting the almost devotional quality in their mesmerizing drifts of piano, woodwind, upright bass, and tape delay. The shape-shifting New York collective led by composer and pianist David Moore makes its 4AD debut with No Home of the Mind.

[The Soup Nazi]

 

Released today. Produced by Steve Gunn, who also plays on the album with his mates Bowles, Elkington and Seitang.

[Kuhb]

Originally Posted by Severian

This I can understand. Not that I'm reminded of high school thick-necks by Trent Reznor, but I can see how other people might be. In that case it's conditioning, and it's emotional, and I understand that.

For instance, I like Black Flag, and even some Rollins Band shit, but Henry Rollins has always reminded me of a particularly immature kind of loud, intimidating meathead that I knew as a teenager. I actually did not have a negative experience in high school (at least, not until my senior year, when this almost existential claustrophobia overtook me and I kind of lost my mind), but I certainly shared space with "too-cool" kids of various stripes, and being a smaller guy — 115 lbs. in 12th grade to be exact — I often felt like loudmouth cunts like the Rollins Jr. were only one disagreement away from kicking the shit out of me.

When you're a small guy, it's easy to feel a bit like you're at the mercy of others. Rollins brings that to mind a bit, and because of that I'll never really like him. I'll listen to My War like there's no tomorrow, but I'll always kind of think, "Fuck you, dickhead," when I think of old Hank.

Totally get that. I just fucking detest Mike Patton, walking around like he's the first guy to figure out you can go into a reggae feel halfway through a song. Any grade 9 lunchtime jam band figures that out. Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. But like I said, going to music school, teaching in a music school, dealing with that dude over and over again in endless permutations is the real reason.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by Severian

but I certainly shared space with "too-cool" kids of various stripes, and being a smaller guy — 115 lbs. in 12th grade to be exact — I often felt like loudmouth cunts like the Rollins Jr. were only one disagreement away from kicking the shit out of me..

You really know nothing at all about Henry. He was a outsider in school, an outcast. He wasn't a fucking bully as you suggest.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by tesla69

You really know nothing at all about Henry. He was a outsider in school, an outcast. He wasn't a fucking bully as you suggest.

I'm not saying he was. I'm saying he acts, speaks and carries himself in a manner that reminds me of someone I knew in high school, of whom I was not a fan.

[guest]

Originally Posted by Severian

I see you read my message and said you needed to take it as good as you could give it. That was cool.

Why say that privately, then act like I've lectured you like Charlie Brown's parents? (Charlie Brown was a character in this ancient comic strip called Peanuts... bah! Nah, I'm just fucking with you man.)

Seriously though, what's the real deal? Are you offended or not? Because my apology at being condescending stands, if you do indeed feel condescended to. If not, seems like we're all good, so why throw more shade?

hahaha just because I said to you I don't mind being baited doesn't mean I'm not going to take it, especially when what you're saying is a dumb argument, like me picking up on it isn't in any way malicious but when I am being talked down to simply because of my age of course it's going to be in my nature to defend myself.

anyway this conversation seems pretty redundant because I'm not entirely sure you're reading what I'm writing?? I'm not talking from the perspective of being some rarefied genius who 'gets' music, quite the opposite. what I'm saying is that the meaning that sound can possess is imbued by a number of different factors but doesn't even need to be in the first place, it can be knowingly vapid and still hold some significance for a person, and I'm not going to deride that at all as it's no one's place to do that.

but I take umbrage to music that is landfill masquerading as something more than what it is, and I find nine inch nails to be a particularly offensive example of this. I like a band like coil because they emerge from a tradition with which I personally resonate and they demonstrate in their music, in their artwork, in their performances a sense of personality which reflected what was going on around them, a context from which trent reznor would like to think he's sprung for reasons entirely superficial but which in reality he is wholly opposed to merely in conveying himself in the manner he does.



and tracing it way back to the beginning it's pretty obvious that the comment that provoked this is knowingly snooty.....for the reasons that you feel compelled to defend yourself.


///

naaahhh - themes [blackest ever black]

 

a slab of noxious ambient from who I'm guessing is john t. gast in post-club miasma mode

[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

hahaha just because I said to you I don't mind being baited doesn't mean I'm not going to take it, especially when what you're saying is a dumb argument, like me picking up on it isn't in any way malicious but when I am being talked down to simply because of my age of course it's going to be in my nature to defend myself.

anyway this conversation seems pretty redundant because I'm not entirely sure you're reading what I'm writing?? I'm not talking from the perspective of being some rarefied genius who 'gets' music, quite the opposite. what I'm saying is that the meaning that sound can possess is imbued by a number of different factors but doesn't even need to be in the first place, it can be knowingly vapid and still hold some significance for a person, and I'm not going to deride that at all as it's no one's place to do that.

but I take umbrage to music that is landfill masquerading as something more than what it is, and I find nine inch nails to be a particularly offensive example of this. I like a band like coil because they emerge from a tradition with which I personally resonate and they demonstrate in their music, in their artwork, in their performances a sense of personality which reflected what was going on around them, a context from which trent reznor would like to think he's sprung for reasons entirely superficial but which in reality he is wholly opposed to merely in conveying himself in the manner he does.



and tracing it way back to the beginning it's pretty obvious that the comment that provoked this is knowingly snooty.....for the reasons that you feel compelled to defend yourself.

Hey now, let's dial it back.

First, I've read every single word you've written in this exchange. K? K.

Yes, my comments on age were knowingly snooty, but the comment that actually provoked your initial response was not snooty at all. I mentioned that this NIN reissue was out, and that I was buying it. You made a very clearly and obviously antagonist comment. And then and then and then...

Listen, it's not that I don't get why you feel the way you do about NIN. I think there's a bit of self-importance that comes with the territory of being into music, and I have it as well, so I do think some of your comments sounded a bit sbobby, but I also understand why you feel the way you feel. I'm pretty sure I said early on that I thought NIN had released plenty of shitty music, and that the main appeal for me was nostalgia. To be sure, if someone were to ask me about my taste in music for biographical purposes, I would not mention NIN.
I'm imagining a profile in a magazine or something, reading:

Originally Posted by Imaginary bio

"Height: 5'10"; Weight: 150 lbs.; Occupation: Shitty reporter; Education: grad school dropout; Likes: Nine Inch Nails..."

... And, well, fuck that. Fuck it to hell. I'm OK with being a "shitty reporter," but I would never want to actually be associated with NIN, or for people to think I was a "NIN guy" (better than "Tool guys," and worlds above "Metallica guys," but still, I would not stand for it.

So believe me, I get your gripe. NIN is a "band" whose music I enjoyed as a kid. Reznor led me to countless other, better bands. Possibly even began my longstanding interest in electronic music. But I don't identify with them.

I identify with Sonic Youth first and foremost, and my tastes are derived from the same themes and elements that unite most of the folks here: Independence, experimentation, sonic diversity, basement shit, noise, and so on. But I still have many exceptions, because I'm more of an inhaler of music than I am a consumer. I just love so many sounds and styles, and in some cases I don't give a fuck where they came from.

I guess I feel that this would go without saying here. On a board devoted to Sonic Youth. We like Sonic Youth partly because we like really weird shit that spans all corners of the spectrum. Some people here love Drake. I hate Drake, but I don't think I'd give someone shit for liking him unless I was provoked. I probably hate Drake more than you hate NIN. But I expect to see a wide variety of music represented here. I guess I assume we all do, and that there's corny or objectionable stuff in everyone's library.

My whole point here is
1.) Hey, get the fuck off my back! So what if I buy a NIN album? Give me shit for that and I'll give you shit for being young.
And
2.) Whether this is or isn't the case, it sort of seems like you take yourself and your music a bit too seriously. Well, if that is the case, stop that. We all take music seriously, but your perspective on it is not "inarguable," or any more true than anyone else's. Yeah, music and how it resonates with you is about many factors. Maybe it's about less for me? Either way, don't take yourself so seriously.

I take it as a given that people here are beyond needing to assert their perceived musical triusms here. Or if not, at least able to discuss what they belief is the "inarguable" quality/lack thereof of something without being offensive about it. You and I probably have more in common than we think, so why default to antagonism when we disagree?


Also, I stil don't get the Mariah Carey comment. I've said "Mariah Carey and the Arthur Doyle Hand Crean" before, but... hmm. Anyway. Whatever.

[greenlight]

Originally Posted by guest

naaahhh - themes [blackest ever black]

 

a slab of noxious ambient from who I'm guessing is john t. gast in post-club miasma mode

ambient from blackest ever black. have to check that out. cheers.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by greenlight

ambient from blackest ever black. have to check that out. cheers.

^ is good. Blackest Ever Black is releasing some fantastic stuff.

I loved the Ashtray Navigations album from late 2016, To Make a Fool Ask, And You Are the First. Fucking glorious, that one.

Then as guest also mentioned, People Skills' Gunshots at Crestridge is also quite good, offering some nice late '80s nostalgia for the old farts, without sacrificing teeth. Reminiscent of a the past, but not exploratory enough not to sound stifled by it. Really like that album.

Now this Naaahhh EP. It's pretty chilling. Not "ambient" in the Stars of the Lid sense. More like the score of a horror movie at times.

[The Soup Nazi]

Battle Hymns — Various Artists

[guest]

Originally Posted by Severian

Hey now, let's dial it back.

First, I've read every single word you've written in this exchange. K? K.

Yes, my comments on age were knowingly snooty, but the comment that actually provoked your initial response was not snooty at all. I mentioned that this NIN reissue was out, and that I was buying it. You made a very clearly and obviously antagonist comment. And then and then and then...

Listen, it's not that I don't get why you feel the way you do about NIN. I think there's a bit of self-importance that comes with the territory of being into music, and I have it as well, so I do think some of your comments sounded a bit sbobby, but I also understand why you feel the way you feel. I'm pretty sure I said early on that I thought NIN had released plenty of shitty music, and that the main appeal for me was nostalgia. To be sure, if someone were to ask me about my taste in music for biographical purposes, I would not mention NIN.
I'm imagining a profile in a magazine or something, reading:



... And, well, fuck that. Fuck it to hell. I'm OK with being a "shitty reporter," but I would never want to actually be associated with NIN, or for people to think I was a "NIN guy" (better than "Tool guys," and worlds above "Metallica guys," but still, I would not stand for it.

So believe me, I get your gripe. NIN is a "band" whose music I enjoyed as a kid. Reznor led me to countless other, better bands. Possibly even began my longstanding interest in electronic music. But I don't identify with them.

I identify with Sonic Youth first and foremost, and my tastes are derived from the same themes and elements that unite most of the folks here: Independence, experimentation, sonic diversity, basement shit, noise, and so on. But I still have many exceptions, because I'm more of an inhaler of music than I am a consumer. I just love so many sounds and styles, and in some cases I don't give a fuck where they came from.

I guess I feel that this would go without saying here. On a board devoted to Sonic Youth. We like Sonic Youth partly because we like really weird shit that spans all corners of the spectrum. Some people here love Drake. I hate Drake, but I don't think I'd give someone shit for liking him unless I was provoked. I probably hate Drake more than you hate NIN. But I expect to see a wide variety of music represented here. I guess I assume we all do, and that there's corny or objectionable stuff in everyone's library.

My whole point here is
1.) Hey, get the fuck off my back! So what if I buy a NIN album? Give me shit for that and I'll give you shit for being young.
And
2.) Whether this is or isn't the case, it sort of seems like you take yourself and your music a bit too seriously. Well, if that is the case, stop that. We all take music seriously, but your perspective on it is not "inarguable," or any more true than anyone else's. Yeah, music and how it resonates with you is about many factors. Maybe it's about less for me? Either way, don't take yourself so seriously.

I take it as a given that people here are beyond needing to assert their perceived musical triusms here. Or if not, at least able to discuss what they belief is the "inarguable" quality/lack thereof of something without being offensive about it. You and I probably have more in common than we think, so why default to antagonism when we disagree?


Also, I stil don't get the Mariah Carey comment. I've said "Mariah Carey and the Arthur Doyle Hand Crean" before, but... hmm. Anyway. Whatever.

I did cover what the "inarguable" element was but you didn't seem to want to go into that.....my "inarguable" argument is that nine inch nails are crap because they've avowed to have emerged from a tradition to which they're ideologically contradictory: their music sounds like it's playing inside the goth section of hmv where you buy your marilyn manson gildan, which is not a problem, but to try and convince your acolytes that you're something more than that is not only an assault to their intelligence but so too the origins they claim to have come from. it's a bizarre idea that to coat your music in a thin layer of distortion invokes some sense of substance, and to try to reinforce this through visual signifiers because your music isn't capable of so doing is in my mind pretty pathetic.

it's not a matter of me taking things overly seriously, it's more that I see it as an affront to myself and my friends and the cultures I'm invested in when someone attempts to codify that in music which is entirely divorced from it out of some strange sense of insecurity. if something means something to me of course I'm going to defend it against people who're pretty concertedly obliterating it, whether conscious or not. and I'm not entirely sure there is any question as to whether nine inch nails have over the course of 30 years been doing exactly that.


// I was saying I have spoken about mariah carey...

[Severian]

Originally Posted by guest

I did cover what the "inarguable" element was but you didn't seem to want to go into that.....my "inarguable" argument is that nine inch nails are crap because they've avowed to have emerged from a tradition to which they're ideologically contradictory: their music sounds like it's playing inside the goth section of hmv where you buy your marilyn manson gildan, which is not a problem, but to try and convince your acolytes that you're something more than that is not only an assault to their intelligence but so too the origins they claim to have come from. it's a bizarre idea that to coat your music in a thin layer of distortion invokes some sense of substance, and to try to reinforce this through visual signifiers because your music isn't capable of so doing is in my mind pretty pathetic.

it's not a matter of me taking things overly seriously, it's more that I see it as an affront to myself and my friends and the cultures I'm invested in when someone attempts to codify that in music which is entirely divorced from it out of some strange sense of insecurity. if something means something to me of course I'm going to defend it against people who're pretty concertedly obliterating it, whether conscious or not. and I'm not entirely sure there is any question as to whether nine inch nails have over the course of 30 years been doing exactly that.


// I was saying I have spoken about mariah carey...

But none of that is actually "inarguable." It's your entirely subjective opinion, and it's based on personal feelings.

Either way, you could pick a more diplomatic way of voicing your opinion. You could say, "I feel this way about this artist" without stinking on someone else.

Decisions, decisions.

By the way I have no clue what's in Hot Topic. I wasn't even acutely aware it was still a thing.

Anyway, moving on then...

[Blood_Promise]

Originally Posted by Severian

But none of that is actually "inarguable." It's your entirely subjective opinion, and it's based on personal feelings.

well, just to prolong the suffering, quite on the contrary, guest offered some constructive thoughts as arguments and you, as a reaction, started referring to subjective opinion and feelings, as if they are what is at stake here.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Blood_Promise

well, just to prolong the suffering, quite on the contrary, guest offered some constructive thoughts as arguments and you, as a reaction, started referring to subjective opinion and feelings, as if they are what is at stake here.

What guest offered was occasionally constructive. Initially, not so much.

But the constructiveness of his comments was not in question; the "inarguability" was. What he said is defunitively not "inarguable," and is, apart from the facts (Trent working for Beats/Apple) entirely subjective, and just as rooted in personal beliefs as my comments.

My comments were certainly personal and subjective. No argument there. The bit about nostalgia, my reasons for appreiating the music, etc.; all 100% non-objective. However, I never claimed that any of it was "inarguable."

But, yeah, thanks for that.

[Severian]

It really doesn't matter. I don't LOVE Trent Reznor as much as guest hates him, so he has stronger feelings about this than I do. Trying to think of an artist I hate like that... can't.

Well, there is Drake. I dislike him very strongly. I hate his face, I hate his voice, I hate his exploitation of artists via his OVO "label," and his weird "co-signing" pyramid scheme of success.

I hate the fact that he considers himself a musical ** auteur, who is somehow elevating hip-hop and R&B when in reality he's just appropriating the styles and sounds of others, and making really bland music with it at that. I also hate that he acts as thi He he has overcome some massive obstacle to be famous and rich, when, point of favt, he literally always has been, almost like the less talented Miley Cyrus of hip-hop.

But... I myself have gone through periods of enjoying at least some of one of his albums. I hate him and what he stands for, but if someone said, "I'm listening to If You're Reading This It's Too Late," I would probably just scroll right past it. And I probably wouldn't have given a shit about guest's initial comment, but it seems like I've heard that kind of thing from him before (maybe I'm mistaken?), and I decided to make an example out of it.
So that was my screw up. I obviously think guest has pretty goddamn incredible taste in music, and I think he's an exceptionally bright person. Honestly, that was my first thought when I read that he was 21. Not that I only think he's smart for a 21-year-old. He's obviously very smart for anyone.

Anyway, is this over yet? At least the bickering part?


** Maybe this is kind of a common ground, guest.

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by Severian

It really doesn't matter. I don't LOVE Trent Reznor as much as guest hates him, so he has stronger feelings about this than I do. Trying to think of an artist I hate like that... can't.

Well, there is Drake. I dislike him very strongly. I hate his face, I hate his voice, I hate his exploitation of artists via his OVO "label," and his weird "co-signing" pyramid scheme of success.

I hate the fact that he considers himself a musical ** auteur, who is somehow elevating hip-hop and R&B when in reality he's just appropriating the styles and sounds of others, and making really bland music with it at that. I also hate that he acts as thi He he has overcome some massive obstacle to be famous and rich, when, point of favt, he literally always has been, almost like the less talented Miley Cyrus of hip-hop.

But... I myself have gone through periods of enjoying at least some of one of his albums. I hate him and what he stands for, but if someone said, "I'm listening to If You're Reading This It's Too Late," I would probably just scroll right past it. And I probably wouldn't have given a shit about guest's initial comment, but it seems like I've heard that kind of thing from him before (maybe I'm mistaken?), and I decided to make an example out of it.
So that was my screw up. I obviously think guest has pretty goddamn incredible taste in music, and I think he's an exceptionally bright person. Honestly, that was my first thought when I read that he was 21. Not that I only think he's smart for a 21-year-old. He's obviously very smart for anyone.

Anyway, is this over yet? At least the bickering part?


** Maybe this is kind of a common ground, guest.

PLEASE!!

[Severian]

^ yeah

[The Soup Nazi]

 

Silver/Lead — Wire (March 31)