[Moshe]

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/07...,77886,22.html


Fear and Melody
Magik Markers use both to find their locomo
by Zach Baron
September 25th, 2007 4:08 PM




I cannot take your want and make it a need," drawls "Taste," the queasy keystone that divides one side of the Magik Markers' Boss from the other. Nothing new there—they've always made their bones thwarting satisfaction, pushing against perfection (and even definition) since their 2001 genesis. The band's 2005 full-length debut, I Trust My Guitar, Etc., hinted at four years of sprawling, difficult shows and sounded as though it had been recorded just down the block from one of 'em. Vocals were miles away from any microphone, feedback tumbled out of the speakers, and the structural improv stuck and slid like it wasn't quite finished, because it wasn't. "There was always something disgusting and too personal about melody before," says singer-guitarist Elisa Ambrogio now. "Something creepy about it." With the Lee Ranaldo–produced Boss, their third full-length (give or take a score of scattered LPs, CD-Rs, and tapes), they went ahead and tried it—melody— anyway. The result: songs. It's a choice anyone who ever saw Ambrogio in performance, crumpled on the floor and screaming, never thought they'd make.
"There was a while a few years back when Elisa would go on live about finding your 'locomo,' " says her drummer, Pete Nolan (honorary third-member-for-life Leah Quimby left the band last year). "Fear—fear was our locomo." Droning Boss paranoia like "Last of the Lemach Line" churns with it, spinning out incantations, threats, shrieks, leaden drumming. "I'm gonna eat them up before they eat me," Ambrogio mutters. So there's still fear, yeah, but on Boss the Magik Markers are driving it.
"I mean, it was basically, with the Markers writing songs, 'Let's let a couple of defectives reinvent the wheel and see if we can make the car go on four squares,'" Ambrogio explains. "It can go, but it takes a lot more power and destroys more." Plus, she adds, "It was also written out of straight frustration. When you look at most of the vapid, soulless douches currently writing songs and making records, do you not think with even the slightest effort you could do better?"
That these two would write actual songs—as opposed to, say, just "working it out," as Nolan puts it—merely because soulless guys exist in this world doing the same says a lot about the way the Magik Markers deal with other people in this world. Or about their version of justice, anyway. Which isn't to say Boss is confident, or even outward at all. "Axis Mundi" and "Circle" hang heavy like interior monologues, with claustrophobic bits of self-recrimination and discomfort. "Body Rot" vibes Sonic Youth, tour mates (and now more, with Ranaldo behind the boards and Boss out on Thurston Moore's Ecstatic Peace label) who beat them to the howling-chaos-to-tightly-wound punch, and who, like the Markers, have probably drawn as much inspiration from art made outside their medium as from other musicians: writers, painters, stand-up comedians, and anybody else in this world doing things the same hard way they are. "Taste," that creeping mission statement, is the band's attempt to give back to those who gave to them. "It is meant to be a song for the bush-league batters, the song about the people too good or too weak for their own good, who didn't or don't watch out for themselves in the world," says Ambrogio. "The survivors are not wasted by this world. People like Bob Dylan or Keith Richards or Leni Riefenstahl or Norman Mailer, they don't do a lot of apologizing or pussy-footing or saying 'thank you.' The world does not lay waste to them—they built bulletproof skins, or they were born with them. Ted Hughes as well. These are not the people 'Taste' is about. It is about the ones who shoot and miss, the ones who never even had it in them to shoot. The people too good or too weak for this world. I am neither." The Magik Markers play Death by Audio October 1, myspace.com/deathbyaudioshows

[scott v]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I like all this emphasis on "melody" in the review; makes it sound like Magik Markers are the second coming of fucking Pavement or something. What a sad world we live in that the idea of tying a few notes together to create a "melody" in your talentless shit band is somehow considered a "breakthrough".

Anyway, Moshe, I enjoy reading these reviews/articles you're posting. Magik Markers are actually really fun to read about for whatever reason.

i don't see how the review comes close to comparing the markers to pavement???

...irregardless of my view of the markers (and some people think i adore them which i really don't...), i could think of many other more important reasons why we live in a sad world other than why 2 people try to make some music and for whatever reason have achieved some sort of succuss at it and have obtained a reasonable amount of respect from certain aspects of a music community. whether you like them or not can you fault them with that? or maybe you will... with all this blabber you write about how much you dislike what they do and how you are in contrare to the opinions in many of the posted reviews, it just reveals that you just jeolous of where they are at and where you are not... its funny how back a few pages you write that they must be jeolous of you because they don't come to Indiana and don't accept Scissorshock as a mysapce friend and so on and so forth, if you are representing your state, then you doing a mighty fine job at making alot of people look like ASSHOLES.

[The Usher]

Originally Posted by scott v

i don't see how the review comes close to comparing the markers to pavement???

...irregardless of my view of the markers (and some people think i adore them which i really don't...), i could think of many other more important reasons why we live in a sad world other than why 2 people try to make some music and for whatever reason have achieved some sort of succuss at it and have obtained a reasonable amount of respect from certain aspects of a music community, whether you like them or not can you fault them with that? or maybe you will... with all this blabber you write about how much you dislike what they do and how you are in contrare to the opinions in many of the posted reviews at just reveals that you just jeolous of where they are at and where you are not...

Spot on I'd say.

[The Usher]

"I'd rather be popular on my own", good luck with that!

[atsonicpark]

*takes a drink of water*

Elisa is cute though.

[atsonicpark]

Honestly, half of my posts are just me being ridiculous and fucking with you guys for fun. I see it's working!

[Moshe]

http://media.www.thechanticleeronlin...-2994132.shtml

Album of the week: Magik Markers


Matthew L. Reese

Issue date: 9/27/07 Section: Arts & Entertainment


Magik Marker's latest release, Boss, comes as a relative surprise. With this release on Thurston Moore's label Ecstatic Peace, the now duo - bassist Leah Quimby left the group in May of 2006 - goes for a more accessible sound. Past endeavors, I Trust My Guitar, Etc...(also on Ecstatic Peace) and A Panegyric To The Things I Do Not Understand, were firmly rooted in the experimentalists' realm of no-wave and, at its basest form, sheer guitar noise. That said, Boss still features the caterwauling of a guitar and off-kilter drum fills. However, Magik Markers has very definitely softened their sound - even going as far as featuring acoustic plucking and pleasantly detuned pianos.

The biggest difference between past albums and this one, though, is the development of actual song structure. The band shows its capability to write pop songs even if they choose not to. It's clear that being on the Sonic Youth frontman's label and even having Lee Renaldo (guitarist for Sonic Youth) produce their album has influenced them in the Yoof's vein. Particularly on a song like "Body Rot," which sounds as if it could be taken from the cutting room of the Sister sessions.

Furthermore, Singer/guitarist Elisa Ambrogio channels the lazy singing style of Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth's bassist/singer) throughout the album, which is rather effective in this album's case (considering past albums featured more or less yelping). In fact, I can hardly discern the difference between the two bands now.

All comparisions aside, Magik Markers create a very visceral listening experience permeated with moments of ethereal quietitude (check the ghostly solo piano track "Empty Bottles") and a penchant for following in their idols footsteps. Pick this album up if you're dissatisfied with Thurston's solo album, Trees Outside the Academy, and are looking for the sounds of Yoof-past.

B-

[Moshe]

http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/mu...ntext_an_i.php

No Context: An Interview with the Magik Markers
posted: 1:48 PM, September 27, 2007 by Camille Dodero

 

The Magik Markers play Death by Audio, Monday, October 1
DOWNLOAD
The Magik Markers, "Bad Dream" (MP3 clip)
The Magik Markers, "Taste" (MP3 clip)
No Context

by Zach Baron
Since only a fraction of this interview with the Magik Markers appears in my short feature on them this week, I thought I’d post the whole transcript here. Boss, their new record on Ecstatic Peace, is queasy and claustrophobic and unsettling; it’s also one of the year’s best. Both drummer Pete Nolan and singer-guitarist Elisa Ambrogio are hyper-articulate when it comes to explaining their own work; all choppiness and indirectness can be explained by the fact that the interview was conducted over a couple weeks in late August and early September, via email, since Pete tends to “get pretty blank over the phone,” and Elisa was traveling. With three of us going back and forth, things went more sideways than linear—which hopefully will explain the meandering. . .
Your sound has changed—that'll be the big news here, why you guys went towards "songs" and away from the anti-composition, more free-form stuff you do live. On top of that I might wonder whether the ideas have shifted—I'm thinking specifically here of the last time the Voice did a feature involving Magik Markers, which was in 2005, and Elisa was pretty adamant about not being interested in modern music of the Rolling Stone variety, let alone, say, the "unfucked pale girls yammering about the gender binary" from liberal arts colleges who even now may have illegally downloaded "Empty Bottles" and are listening to it approvingly in their dorm rooms. New sound, new sociology? New goals for the band? Lets start there, if this makes sense as a question, and go forward. . .

Pete Nolan: I don't think anyone who's been following our output over the last year would consider BOSS to be a radical change in approach. We've been honing these tunes over a period of time. Several versions of some of these songs have appeared spread out over our various self-released CDs. On BOSS the tunes have just come into full focus. We were given the opportunity to spend time in the studio to apply our theories of effective sound formulation in time to the arrangements that we've couched the skeletal framework of our tunes in. I think the result is a full bodied and vivid dreamlike experience. To me the experience of listening to this record from start to finish is no less disorienting than one of our live performances, only more insidiously so. Anyone who's been picking up the bread crumbs will find that at its heart this is truly a Magik Markers record. As appealing and accessible as the songs seem immediately, on repeated and more attentive listening I think this record raises more questions than answers, and in the end leaves you with feelings of doubt and uncertainty.
Elisa Ambrogio: I mean, it was basically, with the Markers writing songs: let’s let a couple of defectives reinvent the wheel and see if we can make the car go on four squares. It can go, but it takes a lot more power and destroys more.
There was always something disgusting and too personal about melody before. Something creepy about it. In some ways I cannot explain the sea change in the Markers, other than that it was gradual and baffling. Believe me, I am as surprised as the next fellow that we wrote songs. It is weird. The influence Leah Quimby [–MM’s former bassist] exerted within the band should not be underestimated. She did not enjoy recording, it was a very uncomfortable process for her and it felt wrong in the context of the Magik Markers’ intent as Leah saw it. Something about our live shows was and is an attempt to shift the perception of a performance. A rock and roll concert with no rock and roll, no concert.
I think we started playing as we did with an innocence of context and a very joyful intent. But eventually, unless you are challenging yourself you become redundant caricatures.
Leah leaving freed Pete and I to act on the fact that only we knew how a Magik Markers record was supposed to sound. Only we knew the Markers record that was playing in our heads. And with Lee [Ronaldo] and Aaron [Mullen] we tried to make it. We still have not made the exact record that was spinning in my head but it is closer, and I am proud of this.
Listening to Arthur Russell (I am thinking mostly of World of Echo and Another Thought, not his club stuff) Richard Youngs, Jessica Rylan, Six Organs of Admittance, Charalambides, The Believers, The Cherry Blossoms, Burning Star Core, Lamborghini Crystal, Colossal Yes, Shadow Ring: these are all so heavy, and they have all found a way to be epic and heavy and human with melody. It now feels like a greater risk and a challenge to play melodies. Not based on strict pop formulas, but on what you hear in your head.
I will not quote all of “Coney Island Baby,” but that is how I understand how we wrote Boss: with a celebration and a vengeance, a sense of vindication and a party, the way any record should be made.
It was also written out of straight frustration. When you look at most of the vapid, soulless, douches currently writing songs and making records, do you not think with even the slightest effort you could do better?
I am lazy. I wouldn’t have done it unless I absolutely had to.
Re: the band's 'new sociology’, The New Science. . .
Elisa Ambrogio: Live and on record, I thought it was important to blur the line of authority, about who is ‘on stage,’ who is the creator and who the audience is, to blur the line of safety. Even though Richard Schechner was doing it in 1968, it still feels new to me in the context of a rock show or a rock record. The not knowing: Am I the guitar player, am I the audience? Who should everyone be looking at? Why did I come here? What is happening? Pushing a person out of passivity, and whatever effect that has. I am interested in the mind control of a crowd toward what I think is a positive ideal. But so was Hitler.
When someone would come to a show and say, ‘Jesus, I could have done a better job’ or review a record and say, ‘I could have made this and it would have been ten times better.’ Good. Who is stopping you? Do it, dude. Make it happen. Who told you I was the artist and you were the audience? The only difference between you and me is that and I did it and you just talked about it. How about we switch?’
But for me now, just that, even at its best, it is not enough. There are melodies in my head and there is an order to the way the sounds are happening. I think you can compose in a decomposing world, I think it is a comfort and something we need to do. I always want every show to be the best show, the show that unlocks something, changes something. We rarely succeed, but when we do it is as good as it gets. Now I want to do that on a record.
I was never not interested in playing music for the unfucked pale girls, I just didn’t want to be one of them. I just had higher hopes for places I felt were too good for the likes of me. It turns out they weren’t so great.
The Markers have always been interested in momentum, whether it be the momentum of a joke or the momentum of a bat, the thing which is compelled forward is of interest. If we stayed the same we would have stayed the same and that would have been phony. We are not the people we were, thank god. I trust people more, I love strangers more. I feel more scared for and warm to humanity. I trust that at their base, when directly confronted with human suffering, people feel empathy and a desire to help. There are more kind human beings than sociopaths. That is true. My heart is warmed constantly by the unfounded trust I put in people that pays off.

[Moshe]

Want to follow up on Magik Markers' "theories of effective sound formulation," as Pete put it. Seems like you're chasing doubt, uncertainty, a dreamlike state—all of which I get from listening to the record, for sure. . . Is there an elaboration to be made as to the relation of improv to the songs on Boss, which sound more composed?
Pete: Yeah there was a while a few years back when Elisa would go on live about finding your locomo... Fear... fear was our locomo. Like we had our backs to the wall and we got all pokey with sharp sticks. I personally didn't want to have anything on this record that wouldn't sound right in a dream. It was pretty easy to hear a sound that wasn't right and eliminate it. In a way it was easy to know what to do. The songs are indeed composed. The pieces were made together out of many forms as well as improvised parts until they fitted just right. Fitted and re-fitted again. The only thing we really knew from the start though was the words. The feeling of the record flowed out from that. There was a while there when I thought the record would come out to dark, but I think that there are islands of relief in there. Anyway, this is just what we did naturally as a result of being put in this position. We'd been thinking about it for a long while and then we did it. We've been thinking for a while about how sounds can evoke feelings and trying to come up with new ones. That's the myopic vision Elisa was talking about. Always churning under the only earth we know.
Who you imagine this music to be for—do you have an audience in mind when you work?
Pete: Well, this time Elisa and I wanted to make a record that we would want to listen to again and again. I think we succeeded on that goal. I can't wait to have the actual thing to listen to in its finished form. We took time to make it and for me it's stood up well. I think it would be really cool if this record was heard by some kids in the middle of America. I wanted to make something that they could really dream on and get deep into. Unlock some code in their brains that will open them up to trying to find out where our stuff came from. I know it meant a lot to me to get snapshots of other worlds when I was growing up in the middle of nowhere in Michigan. I got excited real early.
I remember seeing you guys play Reena Spaulings a couple months back, and how different the reactions of, say, J. Mascis and Kim Gordon were to those of the artists gathered there, who frankly looked a bit horrified, or intimidated, or scared...
Pete Nolan: We were kind of working it out at that one. Seems like it'd be harder than that to shock a bunch of artists in New York doesn't it? I guess that's why they had us confined behind the sawhorses.
Wanted to ask about the lyrics, which you both say were the start of the record really. Seems like there's almost a mythology there—a pretty dark one too, lotta death, rot, decay. I spot what I think are references to serial killers like Ted Bundy ("Taste"), but also some stuff like Updike ("Four/The Ballad of Harry Angstrom"), right? Wonder if you guys imagine a consistent thread being pulled through the whole album? Or whether each song constitutes a kind of isolated incident. . . Certainly the *feeling* the whole album promotes as a whole has a lot of consistency to it—a kind of queasy, discomfiting consistency.
Elisa: When I was writing that verse I was thinking of Ted Hughes’ “Birthday Letters.” It is meant to be a song for the bush league batters, the song about the people too good or too weak for their own good, who didn’t or don’t watch out for themselves in the world. Gene Clark was someone like that, he gave so much of this light and this beauty out, and I feel like never got back what he gave. The world kind of wasted Gene Clark. The world kind of wasted Peter Laughner. Phil Ochs. My father is a man like that. People who don't know their value. There are voracious people in the world, who are unselfconscious in what they take and never say thank you. Vulnerable people are often surrounded by these voracious people. If you can be an artist and voracious in that way, you can often be very successful. The survivors are not wasted by this world. People like Bob Dylan or Keith Richards or Leni Riefenstahl or Norman Mailer, they don’t do a lot of apologizing or pussy footing or saying thank you. The world does not lay waste to them, they built bulletproof skins, or they were born with them. Ted Hughes as well. These are not the people “Taste” is about. It is about the ones who shoot and miss, the ones who never even had it in them to shoot. The people too good, or too weak for this world. I am neither.
Harry Angstrom for me is an ultimate American. In the finest sense that we can be Amercian as well as the worst sense. I think my idea of the American character is that we possess almost all of humanity’s best and worst traits helium pumped to Macy’s Float size: that is Harry Angstrom. I love his optimism and his complacency and his nostalgia and his constant motivations being only fear, sex and death at all times. He is joy-filled and horrifying all at once, completely empathic and callously diffident at all turns. He takes no blame and takes all the blame. I think Harry Angstrom is a more true portrait of the American man/woman of the late 1950’s early 1960’s than Sal Paradise for sure, and holds true now. Because Harry gets in his car and tries to go, but cannot. Misreads the map. Gets lost. Needs gas. Misses home. He is our optimism and our failure to act on our intentions, our fear trapped in our mouths. Finding our joy and freedom in moments instead of in the way we live our lives: when Harry grabs the Reverend's wife's ass or orders a Daiquiri. I think of him as a great hero of American fiction, like Bartleby, or a Horatio Alger character, but Harry never gets any credit. His beauty gets no acknowledgment. No one reads the Rabbit books anymore, or not to the extent they should be read. Updike, perhaps rightfully so considering his Richard Bach books and all those key party couple explorations, got marginalized and labeled ‘un-cool’ and sexist. He, like any great artist transcends his human weaknesses in his art, possibly even despite himself. I think Harry Angstrom deserves a ballad like any other tragic hero.

[Moshe]

Responding to something that Pete said—a lot of people our age seem to have grown up with an eternal gratitude towards Sonic Youth or Forced Exposure, 'zines and bands that were almost gateway drugs before the internet for people who didn't live in cities or have access to stuff that was a little bit more avant or obscure. . . is this a role Magik Markers are trying to play now? Does the internet change any of the rules of a game like this one? What's it like when you tour and you get into a town like the one you grew up in?
Pete: Yeah I still have some copies of FE that I got back in high school. I poured over them with a religious fervor. They were like a blueprint for my early musical education. I know some people that thought that the writers actually made up the bands that they talked about just so they could come up with these fanciful descriptions. But for me it was so good to know that all these bands were real and that there were secret histories to be unearthed... whole zones that I had no idea about. The quality of the writing really made me wanna hear the music and it was so rad when it actually surpassed my expectations and literally changed my life. Like when you first discover a weird alien world like krautrock, where uber grooves and futurism combined with chemistry can alter your brain channels.
I recently had the experience of performing a Spectre Folk set after a reading by Byron Coley. It was for me one of the coolest readings of the sort I've ever witnessed. Byron read a few different stories about Joey Ramone, Sandy Bull, and John Fahey. There was a particularly awesome one about D. Boon and how he leapt into the air when he played causing the whole stage to buckle and resonate like thunder on touchdown. Man it was heavy taking the stage after Byron had invoked these spirits who'd rewired the genetic code of American sound… like we were performing on hallowed ground. It was a really awesome reminder of why I got into playing this kind of music in the first place. I had the feeling that we'd gone through some kind of rite and I went through the pass with a total regeneration of my beliefs in the limitless possibilities open to me as a musician.
I don't know if we actively play this kind of role as a band. It might be cool one day… but right now I think we're just working on getting our own sound together. It seems like the internet makes it easier to find out about stuff, but it doesn't necessarily point the way. I haven't seen a whole lot more great writing as a result of blogging or whatever than there was in the great age of the 'zine. There's probably an equal amount, but there's still nothing quite like the tactile experience of holding some underground rock mag in your hands and hearing some would be scribe pontificate on the latest Royal Trux or Dead C record.
It's cool beaming down to places in America that are stuck in some other era. Like Iowa City, looks like some idealized Hollywood version of a 1950's downtown. Or Missoula Montana where quiet insanity takes place in elks lodges in the shadow of the most enormous gray mountains I've ever seen in my life. Or New Orleans, remaining New Orleans in spite of the fact that they're still fucked up 3 years after the levy broke. When we hit towns like these I get filled up with the feeling and I really wanna do it.

[atsonicpark]

thanks for this, that interview is interesting.

[drrrtyboots]

You thought way too much into that one. I really doubt they check this message board and even if they did, they wouldnt be doing it to find out who doesnt like their music and then make sure that person doesnt become their friend on myspace. Thats so ridiculously unrealistic, it just wouldnt make sense. Its obvious you dont like them, good for you.

[atsonicpark]

Eh? Go back to .. page 4, I believe, of this thread and you can see Pete from Markers replying to someone on this thread and then you can check his message history and see he has about 20 posts.. also note that he replied almost IMMEDIATELY after the last dude left a comment (I think it was a question about vinyl); dude definitely checks this board/this thread OFTEN.

Also, I added them on myspace, their official myspace, they replied: "Why would we add you? You're an asshole."

So, yes, they do check this board.

In retrospect, I'm kind of sad, they seem like good people. I just am not fond of their music, that doesn't mean I went to be their enemy.

People don't add you to their myspace because your music is shit, not because they hate you or your opinions. You are irrelevant to music in general, why would anyone care that much?

[drrrtyboots]

Half of their act is, or at least was, all about being assholes and not giving a shit. If thats their attitude towards playing music then god bless. Bump heads all you like but it would probably make them happier to see more and more people pissed off about their music and them as a band in general.

[atsonicpark]

Saamamkrop, I know your gimmick is to be an asshole or whatever, but I don't think people buy it, and you can drop the act right now if you want to, because I have about 6 private messages from Porkmaraas (or was that some imposter?) about collaborating with me and how you dig my music and how you are glad people on this board are into electronic stuff and not solely "guitar tunings". So, man, if my music is "shit" (which, you know, it is), you must have liked "Shit" at some point (in the later stages of using the Porky name). My opinion IS irrelevant; so is EVERYONE's. However, the FACT is: I am successful at what I do, making innovative, creative music, and I've made plenty of money doing it (not bragging, just proving you wrong), so .. .well .. your reply proves, as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about and it has no relevance WHATSOEVER to what I was posting about. Go back to your lair and work on some new material.

Drrtyboots, you're right, that is their gimmick, and .. I'm quite tired of talking about the Markers, and I wasn't going to post about them anymore, I was just replying to the articles Moshe posts. Moshe posts those articles for us to discuss, I'd assume, so why don't we discuss them? Whatever your opinion of the Markers is, we can all at least agree that the literary prowess of some of the people reviewing it isn't up to snuff... when a reviewer says he can't tell the difference between Sonic Youth and Magik Markers anymore? What? Did I really read that? I mean, Elisa sounds NOTHING like Kim, for one. And for two.. eh.. fuck it. You get the idea.

[!@#$%!]

^^ dude you're still at it?

the more you hate, the more it makes you look just envious-- and that's such a sucky emotion.

just saying...

[atsonicpark]

Did you not read what I wrote?

I am merely replying to the ARTICLES talking about the Markers at this point. That's like saying, "Man, if you keep talking about all those articles accusing Sonic Youth of selling out for donating songs to Starbucks, it makes it seem like YOU want to donate songs to Starbucks."

I'm not sure when "Pure and violent hatred of a subject" got confused for "jealousy", but I can think of about 500 bands I'm more jealous of than the Markers. I'm sure every noise maker with any self-respect is secretly jealous of Wolf Eyes for making millions of dollars for putting out them smelling their own diarhea through a delay pedal. However, I am most definitely not jealous of the Markers; I live in a town of sub-Markers-wannabe hipster idiots, I could very well be another scene kid like they are and do the SAME FUCKING THING (but better), I just choose to do something different. Lots of people hate the Markers and talk about it tons (maybe not on here, in fear that Thurston may scold them); I gurantee that while a few may be jealous, a few aren't. If anything, they're jealous of me, since I'm cooler than they are.

Anyway, whatever, Moshe, please keep posting whatever bad literature you find. <3

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Did you not read what I wrote?

nope. it gets dull. do i look like i enjoy pain?

[!@#$%!]

and before you tell me i have to read your every word before i can judge, let me just say that a mere whiff of a turd is sufficient to tell me i'm not going to enjoy it as a meal.