[Sonic Youth 37]

Rope?

The camera work had never been done before and the homosexual subtext was pretty upfront for 1948.

[atari 2600]

All in one scene too, but that wasn't exactly new. It's presented as if it's all one shot which, you're right, I don't think it had been done before, at least with that intricacy. It isn't truly one shot, but it's pretty close. Great movie. One of my favorites of his to be sure.

[NWRA]

Annie Hall. For the characters' internal monologues (done in voiceover), scenes where people talk directly to the camera (acknowledging that the audience is watching a work of fiction), cutaway fantasy sequences, and the cartoons (within a live-action film).

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

BTW. . . Here's a list of films from Wikipedia that make "notable uses of Deep Focus". . .

Black and White

• Twilight of a Woman's Soul (1913)
• Foolish Wives (1922)
• Nosferatu (1922)
• Greed (1924)
• Downhill (1927)
• Working Girls (1931)
• Waltzes from Vienna (1934)
• Mad Love (1935)
• Dead End (1937)
• Grand Illusion (1937)
• The Rules of the Game (1939)
• The Long Voyage Home (1940)
• Rebecca (1940)
• Citizen Kane (1941)
• The Little Foxes (1941)
• The Magnificent Ambersons (1942)
• The Best Years of Our Lives (1946)
• Ugetsu (1953)
• Sansho the Bailiff (1954)
• Seven Samurai (1954)
• Mr. Arkadin (1955)
• Ashes and Diamonds (1958)
• L'avventura (1960)
• The Trial (1962)
• The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
• Birdman of Alcatraz (1962)
• Seven Days in May (1964)
• The Train (1964)
• Chimes at Midnight (1966)
• Faces (1968)
• The Last Picture Show (1971)
• Paper Moon (1974)

Color

• For a Few Dollars More (1965)
• The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966)
• The Offence (1972)
• Rumble Fish (1983)
• 52 Pick-Up (1986)
• Eyes Wide Shut (1999)
• The New World (2005)
• Six Feet Under (2001-2005)
• The Black Dahlia (2006)

[atari 2600]

That's a good mention right there, NWRA in Annie Hall. I was trying to rack my brain for comedies and all I came up with was Modern Times and Raising Arizona. I suppose one can say that What's Up, Tiger Lily? provided a novel form for comedy.

Now my favorite comedy is probably Young Frankenstein, but it's not necessarily ground-breaking. I had a glimmer of a thought about Annie Hall, I truly did, (thought about Brazil too) but I didn't remember it as well as you to justify it. Thanks. An aside, but I think Vicky Christina Barcelona is an okay movie, but nothing spectacular.

Welles definitely makes good use of deep focus in Citizen Kane, Spectral. Thanks for the great topic.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Humorous slant there, but just think...per this topic, Kubrick and Hitchcock are probably the two most ground-breaking directors in the history of cinema. That is, if were concentrating on the subject matter and themes of movies moreso than special effects...if we're primarily discussing fx, then no, there are many others and it all begins with King Kong.

I should start off by saying that I'm not a big fan of Kubrick and certainly wouldn't say he was one of the two most ground-breaking directors. Hitchcock maybe, but Kubrick ahead of Griffith? Renoir? Welles? Godard? Bresson? Rossellini? That's an endlessly debatable point though and has no real bearing on your point.

Regarding 2001's themes, they resonated perfectly with the public mood building up towards the climax of the space-race. However if you look at the films made a few years later in the early 70s, the economic downturn created a very different type of film, that seemed at great odds with the zeitgeist of the late 60s - and by extension, 2001.

A film like Bonnie and Clyde, made a year before, was far more forward-looking than 2001 with regard the themes and attitudes that would quickly dominate American cinema.

[atari 2600]

Oh yeah, Bonnie and Clyde and then The Getaway have been templates for that type of anti-hero violence ever since.

Which is why they both made my list (on page 2).

[atari 2600]

I'll still stick by Alfred and Stanley, however. I made my little list and they have the most titles on it, so...

Although, Woody Allen is starting to make a showing because I added What's Up, Tiger Lily? ('66), Take The Money and Run ('69) and Annie Hall ('77). He is, after all, a genuine American auteur.

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Woody Allen didn't have full control over What's Up Tiger Lily? and was upset that the cut released had that long scene featuring the Loving Spoonful.

I love Everything You Want to Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask. The inside the body control center was genius.

But my choice for best comedy ever would have to be one of Stanley Kubrick's favorites: The Jerk

[demonrail666]

I'll say that Kubrick is one of cinema's greatest stylists. His films are immediately recognisable (I'd say that only Fellini eclipses him in this respect). My problem with him is that his attitude to making films limited the type he was successful with. Kubrick was great with sets, but awful with people, which he treated as mere props, or cyphers. He had no feel for the personal, which is why Jack Nicholson in The Shining is never able to move beyond the mere 'crazy', and why Shelley Duval in the same film seems to switch solely between a state of blubbing and hysteria. His characters aren't people, they're types (arguably the greatest Kubrickesque performance in this respect is provided by Hal, a computer.) It's the reason why a film like Eyes Wide Shut (a film that demanded a director interested in human psychology) is such a failure. All filmmakers are, to some degree, limited by their style, but with Kubrick it was always just too much for me. In this respect he always reminds me of Herzog or Michael Mann.

I always think Coppola and Spielberg are two filmmakers that have managed to more successfully achieve that balance between the grand spectacle and the personal. And of course the sheer jaw-dropping scariness of Fellini and Ford was that they managed to nail it every bloody time. I shudder to think what Kubrick would've done with something like The Searchers, The Godfather, Close Encounters or 8 1/2.

[atsonicpark]

My two cents... Kubrick was brilliant. All his films were completely different. Great director. I don't love all of his movies but even when he fails, he does so spectacularly. One of the best.

[atari 2600]

These cans are defective!
-->
He hates these cans!
It doesn't get much funnier than that.


well, you may remember my recent diatribe concerning the underrated genius of Steve Martin. Too bad he hasn't been funny in the movies for so long. Personally, I feel his vintage stand-up is the best, even moreso than Richard Pryor's premium material.

Added Linklater's Waking Life...not wholly novel, but novel for a major motion picture. Time will tell if it's really ahead of its time or not, I suppose.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

Bay of Blood was one of the original slasher films. And it also has an artful direction that definitely inspired a lot of Italian horror, including a lot of Argento's better known works.


A lot of Bava films, even though I'm not a big fan, were ahead of their time. Black Sunday, Black Sabbath, Blood and Black Lace (the original giallo), etc.

I never really know what to make of Bava's films and, by extension, Argento's. I think they're very similar in that they're both responsible for some of horror's greatest set-piece moments. however neither of them seem able to carry a whole film. There's always these moments in their films where it's as though the plot has just gone to sleep, only to be woken up suddenly by another set-piece.

[atsonicpark]

I dunno. Ha. I don't really like Bava that much, though I appreciate his work.

Argento is another story. He seems like an extension of some stuff Hitchcock was doing.. but all of his films feel like a dream.. very surreal and artful. Unlike anything else out there. I can see what you're saying, but only a few of his films feel like set piece films to me... the atmosphere alone usually helps him get by.

Though speaking of plot, the storylines usually suck.. or something is lost in translation... I think Deep Red and Bird with the Crystal Plumage actually have great plots for most of their running time, however.

[atsonicpark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYRxCVkCoA0

for all you salo fans.

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYRxCVkCoA0

for all you salo fans.

hahahahahhaha... i was so not expecting that.
too funny...

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atsonicpark

I dunno. Ha. I don't really like Bava that much, though I appreciate his work.

Argento is another story. He seems like an extension of some stuff Hitchcock was doing.. but all of his films feel like a dream.. very surreal and artful. Unlike anything else out there. I can see what you're saying, but only a few of his films feel like set piece films to me... the atmosphere alone usually helps him get by.

Though speaking of plot, the storylines usually suck.. or something is lost in translation... I think Deep Red and Bird with the Crystal Plumage actually have great plots for most of their running time, however.

I know exactly what you about the dreamlike nature of Argento's films. I was a MASSIVE fan of his about 10-15 years ago, but then really turned against him for some reason. I occasionally watch Suspiria but should really return to his other stuff, much of which I've not looked at for about ten years.

Deep Red always strikes me as his most 'polished' film, but I get the same sense with that as I do with Nic Roeg's Don't Look Now: it seems to be one of those films in which far more is going on beneath the surface than actually is. Once you penetrate it even slightly, it seems quite empty. But again, I should watch it again.

[Dead-Air]

Gotta argue with those who say A Clockwork Orange wasn't ahead of it's time. Sure, by today's standards the droogies don't even look threatening compared to an average bunch of kids on a wilding spree, but then that's the whole point. The movie, and the book before it predicted all that, which is exactly what "ahead of it's time" means. This movie was made a decade before punk rock and the number of bands who based their whole image and attitude on it is uncountable. It's fusing of Russian and Anglo culture was absolutely unheard of when it came out, and it's use of an electronicly adapted classical music soundtrack by Walter Carlos was also hugely influential. The movie influence other films, fashion, music, and culture at large.

Easy to proclaim dated from a jaded perspective, but trust me, Alex would have done the same thing.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

The Battleship Potemkin (1925)
Metropolis (1927)
L'Étoile de mer (1928)/La Coquille et le Clergyman (1928)
King Kong (1933)
Mad Love (1935)
The Petrified Forest (1936)
Modern Times (1936)
Citizen Kane (1941)
Princess Iron Fan (1941)
Bambi (1942)
Rope (1948)
The Bicycle Thief (1948)
The Seven Samurai (1954)
On The Waterfront (1954)
Rear Window (1954)
Night of the Hunter (1955)
Rebel Without a Cause (1955)
Wild Strawberries (1957)
The Seventh Seal (1957)
Touch of Evil (1958)
Vertigo (1958)
Psycho (1960)
Cape Fear (1962)
The Birds (1963)
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
What's Up, Tiger Lily? (1966)
The Incident (1967)
Bonnie and Clyde (1967)
Night of the Living Dead (1968)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
Targets (1968)
Take The Money And Run (1969)
Woodstock (1970)
Trash (1970)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
The Getaway (1972)
Mean Streets (1973)
The Conversation (1974)
Eraserhead (1977)
Annie Hall (1977)
Star Wars (1977)
The Deer Hunter (1978)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
Alien (1979)
Blade Runner (1982)
Videodrome (1983)
Brazil (1985)
Raising Arizona (1987)
Who Framed Roger Rabbit? (1988)
Akira (1988)
Roger & Me (1989)
Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991)
Waking Life (2001)

I considered The Wizard of Oz, Jaws, Tron, E.T./Gremlins, and Jurassic Park and the like for special effects, but decided against them. I also considered a bunch of others...too many to go into right now. Well, maybe just a few. For some reason, I considered an onslaught of Pacino vehicles like The Godfather, GF part II, Dog Day Afternoon and Scarface for various reasons, and of course also decided against those. Oh and Rocky too, but nope. Obsessione? Fantasia? Koyaanisqatsi? My Dinner With Andre? Nah. Ditto to Barry Lyndon, Lolita, The Shining, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Midnight Cowboy and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest; am I being unreasonable? Also Rocky Horror and Grease; again, nope.

Take Dr. Strangelove for instance. It's obviously perfect for its time, for holding a mirror up to the atomic age, but without Kubrick making it would anyone have made anything quite like it? I think not...even up to the present day. But hey, Peter Sellers' acting genius helps just a bit, haha, right?

Anyway, any suggestions? (thanks for the ones I took to already) or criticisms? (and I already realize I'm exercising questionable taste quoting myself)

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

I considered The Wizard of Oz, Jaws, Tron, E.T./Gremlins, and Jurassic Park and the like for special effects, but decided against them. I also considered a bunch of others...too many to go into right now. Well, maybe just a few. For some reason, I considered an onslaught of Pacino vehicles like The Godfather, GF part II, Dog Day Afternoon and Scarface for various reasons, and of course also decided against those. Oh and Rocky too, but nope. Obsessione? Fantasia? Koyaanisqatsi? My Dinner With Andre? Nah. Ditto to Barry Lyndon, Lolita, The Shining, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Midnight Cowboy and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest; am I being unreasonable? Also Rocky Horror and Grease; again, nope.

Take Dr. Strangelove for instance. It's obviously perfect for its time, for holding a mirror up to the atomic age, but without Kubrick making it would anyone have made anything quite like it? I think not...even up to the present day. But hey, Peter Sellers' acting genius helps just a bit, haha, right?

Anyway, any suggestions? (thanks for the ones I took to already) or criticisms? (and I already realize I'm exercising questionable taste quoting myself)

I think it's interesting that nobody (I think) has yet mentioned American Graffiti (1973) which as well as giving us a whole slew of nostalgia packed teen-flicks (the utterly brilliant Grease and the actually quite good in spite of itself, Porky's) also inspired the tv series Happy Days, which itself sort of paved the way for the truly cringeworthy The Wonder Years. It also revolutionised the concept of the movie soundtrack, as well as having perhaps the funniest moment involving a scooter in the entire history of film.