[Lipslikewindows]

King -

You're into the philosophy of a man who claimed to be God, even though you think he might have been/probably was wrong? I think if someone claims to be God and isn't, their philosophy is immediately pretty fucking suspect. Just me.

As far as saying there's no way I can know that there's a God because there's no proof and it "just isn't possible", I'd have to say there's also no way you can there's no proof or that it isn't possible. Not possible God's given you the proof and you haven't wanted to find it enough? Not saying that's the case, but I would imagine you could admit it's possible.

[kingcoffee]

The existance of God IS possible. But God's existance can never be proved. That's all I'm saying.

And so what if I follow some of the philosophical teachings of Christ? I follow the philosphical teachings of many people who were not all they said they were. I follow some of the teachings of the Buddha, Siddarthe Gotama, but I don't think he really sat under a Bodhi tree for twenty years andsurvived on a single grain of rice a day. Just because I don't beleive Jesus' divinity doesn'y make the bulk of philosphical teaching suspect or invalid. Like I said previously, he said some truthful thigs that are unrelated to religion and God. I'm just talking about loving yr naighbor, treating people with respect and dignity, charity, etc. Jesus, as I understand him, was a good man and a misrepresented character in history. We may never know if he truly was the son of God and existed innthe way the New Testament claims he did.

And although I may not believe in his divinity, I still believe he had a great role in human history. I see Jesus as a teacher and a philosopher and a humanitarian rather than a God whether he claimed to be Christ or not. That doesn't matter to me. It's his humanitarian messages that mean the most.

[Lipslikewindows]

Well, there ya go. It doesn't matter to you.

[kingcoffee]

That's right. It doesn't matter because there is no way we can know for sure that Jesus was Christ. There is only belief and the ILLUSION of knowledge.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

I actually don't consider Christianity to be an organization. It is "follower of Christ." One who follows and believes His teachings. And I do. I don't follow Christians, I am one.

And that's the way the New Testament, understood properly, would have you view Christianity. With the New Covenant that God established with the Earth, the temple was declared to be the body (synonymous with the body of Christ as a symbol for the Self) & not a church building of an organized religion.

[atari 2600]

So, Bush issued this statement last week:
"we recognize a divine plan that stands above all human plans and continue to seek His will."
The words were penned to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Eisenhower's establishment of "In God We Trust" as the national motto of the United States, but one can't help but, (knowing Dubya) feel a bit queasy reading those words.

The whole cultural idea of how the Book of Revelations is interpreted has been handed down from the biblical scholarship of one man, a British evangelical minister who lived in the nineteeth century.
This man's name was John Nelson Darby.

 

He is the individual responsible for the doctrine of Dispensationalism & for interpreting Revelations in such a way as to craft the common understanding of the Rapture & the Tribulation & Millenium that most Christians adhere to worldwide.

also see: http://users.frii.com/gosplow/disp2.html

[Lipslikewindows]

I actually wrote a paper on the "Left Behind" series. It was 20 pages, I read all 12 books. Man, it was honestly really really interesting. But so much of it was just like "GUYS, SERIOUSLY, USE YOUR BRAINS".

Another reason I believe in Christianity: it's too beautiful not to be true

[kingcoffee]

Once again Lips, yr not looking at things in a rational way. Just because something is very beautiful, or seems true, doens't mean it really is. ALl that glitters is not gold. I don't find Christianity to be all that beautiful a religion. Most religions have their good aspects and their bad aspects. Chrisitianity is just as fucked as many other religions. I has many good aspects and many of Christ's devoted followers are good people, but come on. You can't just beleive in something just because it sounds pretty. Search yr soul. Use yer brain. Think long and hard about the universe and the soul and the mind and nature. You might just come to different conclusions. If you don't and you still come right back to the way you are right now, then that is perfectly fine. I just want people to stop swallowing what is just handed to them and search themselves for answers.

[kingcoffee]

And those left behind series of books are awful. Even if they are well written and interesting, I have to say that the basic premise of the book is garbage. There is no Anti-Christ and therew ill be no Reckoning or Apocalypse or anything else like that. Those books were ploy to prey on the weak-minded ignorami that beleive in all that End of Days bullshit. I don't deny the plausible extinction of the human race or the possible and inevitable destruction of the world. I know for a fact that humanity will end one day as will the planet Earth. But I see our destruction as a result of our own hubris. We wqill probably die from nuclear holocaust or from an incurable disease or maybe a large meteor or asteroid, comet what have you. We will NOT be descended up by The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and the Righteous will NOT be beamed up into Heaven like on Star Trek. The damned will NOT have to suffer here on Earth while the Anti-Christ rules us for 7 years or 1000 years or however long the "prophesy" said he would. It is alol pure BUNK!!!

[kingcoffee]

Fuck the movies, too. And fuck Kirk Cameron for even appearing in that shit. That stupid, ignorant, self-righteous little twit can kiss the fattest part of my ass and I don't mind saying so!

[Lipslikewindows]

If you had just stopped with saying that something being beautiful doesn't make it true, that would've been fine. I agree. I said it's TOO beautiful not to be true. As in I don't think the human mind could come up with something so foreign to the universe if it weren't true. By foreign, I mean that, say Christianity were a total hoax, well, in that case we would never have thought it up. I think it's illogical that either a.) a different God would allow us the brain power or freedom to come up with something infinitely better than him or b.) a godless universe could create brains that would think of something so infinitely better than the godless universe. And like I said, that's one of MANY reasons I believe it.

I've searched soul, brain, books, science, etc. I actually do those things everyday. I'm still a Christian. You should know people better before you assume ignorance, fear, or tradition are why they believe what they believe.

[Lipslikewindows]

Yeah, the Left Behind series is beyond retarded.

[Lipslikewindows]

Oh, and King, what I was saying by "there ya go, you're not interested" was that you're not interested ENOUGH to KNOW whether or not Christ could've been God. It's not something you can disinterestedly discard. You have to throw yourself completely into it.

[kingcoffee]

First of all I HAVE researched Christianity sextensiv;ey. I was brought up Christian and for years I questioned many things about the religion. I just happened to come to the conclusion that I do not know whether God exists or whether anything that happened in the Bible is true.

Also, if God didn't exist we would still be able to have the brain capacity to imagine such a being. Even if there were another God that we as humans are not familiar with through our current or past religions, we would still have the ability to create religions out of thin air.

[sonikjuice]

By this logic it is a given that aliens exist. So do ghosts, haunted houses, witches, etc... What about all of the religions that contradict each other? Human minds have come up with something "so foreign", yet they cannot all be true. So, according to your logic, since the human mind has come up with both heaven and reincarnation, are they both "true"?

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

As in I don't think the human mind could come up with something so foreign to the universe if it weren't true. By foreign, I mean that, say Christianity were a total hoax, well, in that case we would never have thought it up.

[Lipslikewindows]

Personally, I don't think aliens, for example, are that far out. It's just athe idea of a living physical object being present in another physical location than Earth. Like imagining "what if there were a remote control in the sewer?" There's nothing foreign to the nature of the universe there (assuming there's no God and there never was one, that it's a completely brute and physical world).

What I'm saying is, the idea among primitive people that there must be a creator isn't really primitive. If the world were really and truly godless, primitive people wouldn't have been able to imagine a god at all. It would be like a a brainless amoeba fantasizing about the idea of infinite bodily cells.

[sonikjuice]

Primitive people believed a lot of stupid shit. People used to think the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. The Aztecs sacrificed thousands of humans to appease multiple gods. What about witches? If this is your best argument that god exists (because primitive people were able to imagine it) than even you shouldn't believe god exits. Your analogy to a brainless amoeba doesn't make any sense either.

Originally Posted by Lipslikewindows

Personally, I don't think aliens, for example, are that far out. It's just athe idea of a living physical object being present in another physical location than Earth. Like imagining "what if there were a remote control in the sewer?" There's nothing foreign to the nature of the universe there (assuming there's no God and there never was one, that it's a completely brute and physical world).

What I'm saying is, the idea among primitive people that there must be a creator isn't really primitive. If the world were really and truly godless, primitive people wouldn't have been able to imagine a god at all. It would be like a a brainless amoeba fantasizing about the idea of infinite bodily cells.

[Lipslikewindows]

I NEVER said it was my best argument. I didn't even say it would make sense to other people. I just said it was a reason I believe. I'm also not saying that primitive people imagined it. I'm saying they knew god or gods existed. I'm saying in a godless world they would HAVE to imagine it, which I think is impossible. It wasn't an argument. It was just a statement. And what about witches?

[Cantankerous]

i am almost entirely sure that i don't give a shit.

[atari 2600]

I am entirely sure that, although intelligent life may appear elsewhere in the universe, aliens & alien spacecraft, as we imagine them, do not exist. I assure you that any crafts being seen are quite terrestrial in origin. Most people that claim to see UFOs are either delusional, a liar seeking attention mostly, or just plain have a fucking $ching-ching$ agenda.

The same goes for ghosts, but that opens up a big can of shit debating that one because if a delusional person sees a ghost, then it is more-or-less real to them. Most "ghosts" are seen when going to sleep or when awakened from sleep & thus, people see & hear things that an independent observer right next to them would not notice.
http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/sho...ht=unconscious