[Laila]

what?

[socfetiche]

This has nothing to do with anyones post, but one of my friends made a somewhat off color comment the other day about how Wal-Mart was promoting a subversive kind of communism.
He quoted Ronald Reagan in saying that we should never have to stand in line for bread, but then said,"But we do anyway, when we shop at Wal-Mart."
It's kind of like choosing your own communism, but in a way, that's kind of what we're coming to. Wal-Mart was only recently pushed out of being the most profitable company by Exxon-Mobile this last week. Wal-Mart carries everything everyone needs (not necessarily wanting.) and it has the corporate power to buy out all of its competitors as well as shutting down small businesses and turning rural townships into ghost towns with its practices.
I have known many people who have worked for Wal-Mart, and they have yet to recieve any sort of raise which is fair to what the living wage is. But this is also standard American corporate practice.

[blots]

Wal-Mart has an incredible amount of power. Because they account for such a large share of revenue for suppliers, the suppliers are often forced to meet their demands or go under. One of which is to always lower prices, and of course to lower prices one must go overseas. Wal-Mart is not setting their overseas workers' wages, their suppliers are. All they tell their suppliers is to meet the prices they set.

If a corporation can gain that much power over the economy, potentially unlimited control, is that an ethical system? I don't see why government control is any more frightening than corporate control. Wal-Mart isn't just putting small-businesses out of business, they're moving business to China. By outsourcing American jobs to China, China gains more political pull. If China were to own the American economy, do you suppose doctrines on American capitalism will still be relevant? Giving power to those who might not grant us the same freedoms is dangerous.

[truncated]

I will simply concur with aprogeny79, seeing as he put it so eloquently already.

That's capitalism, pure and simple. Having the ability to offer products at a lower price than at those of competitors, and providing a convenient, accessible, and legal way for consumers to obtain these products, is simply good business practice, and the management behind such tactics deserves praise, not condemnation (other issues like health insurance aside).

While I'm not lumping anyone from this board into this category, negative attitudes towards companies like Wal-Mart seem to have no other foundation than the current trend of opposing anything profit-motivated or blatantly capitalistic. While there certainly exists corporate bullying and monopolization, not every successful company falls under this umbrella. It is the inevitable result of an unregulated capitalist society which, for the most part, works to our advantage as consumers, as much as many leftists like to damn it.

Take the ever-fluctuating fuel prices, for example - while we have witnessed them skyrocket appallingly, such economic trends also instigate things like price wars. Neighborhood gas stations systematically lower their prices to gain patronage and beat out the competition, a 'game' which is largely responsible for making fuel affordable to the average commuter.

This concept is universal, and an economic rule - in a capitalist economy, it is only logical that if two merchants are providing the same goods in comparable environments, but one is doing so in a manner more affordable to consumers, that merchant will gain more patronage than the other and, consequently, be in the position to overtake the other merchant. Simple logic, and simple math.

Sure, mom and pop establishments have character going for them, but that's life, folks - if you can't hack it in the business, you get out.

I don't like that fuckin smiley face in the commercials either, but laundry soap costs a bomb every place else, and until I decide to go bohemian and stop wearing clean undies, Wal-Mart's the place for me.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by truncated

While I'm not lumping anyone from this board into this category, negative attitudes towards companies like Wal-Mart seem to have no other foundation than the current trend of opposing anything profit-motivated or blatantly capitalistic. While there certainly exists corporate bullying and monopolization, not every successful company falls under this umbrella.

True, not every large company falls under that umbrella, but Wal Mart does.

[blots]

Originally Posted by truncated

While there certainly exists corporate bullying and monopolization, not every successful company falls under this umbrella.

I think the foundation is that Wal-Mart does fall under this umbrella. Wal-Mart has been known to literally take several suppliers into a room and force them to bid each other down. Much of my information comes from the Frontline documentary, so if there is any evidence to the contrary feel free to present it, but apparently when the price of resin went up, Rubbermaid could not meet Wal-Mart's demanded price. Wal-Mart refused to change their mind. Rubbermaid like many companies had become dependent on Wal-Mart, and was extremely damaged as a result, and I'm not talking about a little mom and pop shop. Wal-Mart gets suppliers dependent on them and then demands that they meet every whim. What exactly is your definition of bullying?

[truncated]

Originally Posted by blots

I think the foundation is that Wal-Mart does fall under this umbrella. Wal-Mart has been known to literally take several suppliers into a room and force them to bid each other down. Much of my information comes from the Frontline documentary, so if there is any evidence to the contrary feel free to present it, but apparently when the price of resin went up, Rubbermaid could not meet Wal-Mart's demanded price. Wal-Mart refused to change their mind. Rubbermaid like many companies had become dependent on Wal-Mart, and was extremely damaged as a result, and I'm not talking about a little mom and pop shop. Wal-Mart gets suppliers dependent on them and then demands that they meet every whim. What exactly is your definition of bullying?

I certainly see your point, but I wonder where you draw the line on such issues. Does that not simply make Wal-Mart superior to Rubbermaid in a business sense, and in turn create a separate set of standards by which companies like Rubbermaid must operate in order to succeed within their own markets? While Rubbermaid may not be able to meet Wal-Mart's demands, one of its competitors will, which is simply perpetuating the cycle of capitalist competition.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be number-one advocate for big corporations. I'm just wondering myself how you differentiate between 'bullying' and simple superiority over your competition. Such distinctions are more easily made where pharmaceuticals, for example, are concerned, where actual prohibitions are placed on buying and selling based on both private and governmental interests; but in a 'free' economic society, for me personally, those lines tend to be more blurred.

Basically, I don't have an answer to that either.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I hate Wal Mart because I can't stand being around poor people.
Seriously, a poor person whistled at me ouside a Wal Mart the other day and I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Savage Clone, I adore you. That had my sides aching.

[!@#$%!]

hah, some dude followed AND whistled the mrs. today as she was coming back from the bakery (we're staying in queens, what a cool part of new york: no hipsters & no yuppies). she told me about it and we both laughed. i think this dude that followed my wife was no pervert, he just had damn good taste, but lacked the right tools to express himself.

[jon boy]

its true laila, hating wal mart just because someone whistled at you is a shit reason to hate it. look harder, there are plenty of other reasons.

[marleypumpkin]

"Wal-Mart's original name, Satan's Five & Dimes."
-Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

[schizophrenicroom]

Walmart has horrible design. I hate the colors.

[qprogeny79]

Originally Posted by truncated

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be number-one advocate for big corporations.

i am.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yeah, it always delays your trip when you have to go back inside and buy dry panties

Ayn Rand never had that problem I hear tell. Her panties were always bone-dry.

[Lethrneck4]

i like walmart

i bet youre all shocked!

haha!

[noumenal]

I hate Wal-Mart. Stealing from Wal-Mart should be encouraged. I would, but I have too much to lose.

[Lethrneck4]

yeah, stealing from walmart will go a long way in helping its employees

good idea

haha

[HaydenAsche]

I just hate it for no other reason than it is terribly white trash and dirty.

Target all the way.

Walmart is still better than Kmart by leaps and bounds.

[Laila]

this thread must die NOW!! wal-mart is full of white trash and theives!! i shall never shop there again!

[noumenal]

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

i actually admire them for being so damn good at what they do (viz., keeping prices down) that they've been able to beat the hell out of all the competition.

"Keeping prices down." At this point they have no competition.

And how did they get to this point, good ol' American know-how and hard work? Yeah...... Corporations exist as agents for morally reprehensible acts - they displace responsibility. Wal-Mart fucks people and communities until they bleed to death.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

on the charge that they "put small businesses out of business," hey, that's how capitalism works.

That's how your version of capitalism works. I like capitalism, but it's important to remember that it isn't a religion and that without proper regulating, it creates a disaster. I won't elaborate.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

and regarding the charge that they don't provide enough health care for their workers, would you rather they pay benefits like gm and endure loss after loss under the extreme financial pressure?

yes.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

a consumer, being rational and therefore egoistic

Here's the gist: some A-Grade economics bullshit. It's these kind of core beliefs that get blown into ridiculous world-views, like Libertarianism.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

but being good under capitalism MEANS making money by offering something of value, and if you're good at that, that is the supreme reason to be admired.

I hope by "good", you don't mean "good." This is sickening. Am I the only one who finds this sickening? This is a measure of "good?" Shear lunacy.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

wal-mart, like any business, is in it for itself; it is not its brother's keeper, and no one may legitimately force it to be.

Exactly, it's not it's brother's keeper. A corporation is legally a person. A person without moral obligations. If Wal-Mart has no moral obligation to me, I have no moral obligation to Wal-Mart. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

if wal-mart treated its employees poorly, no one would want to work for it.

Everything in the world doesn't boil down to a simple equation. If you really believe this, you're crazy. Many people work at Wal-Mart because they have to. If you'd quit bowing to the alter of "choice," you'd see this. Personal choice is an illusion. Wal-Mart treats it's employees badly.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

haha . . . no, but i do read a fair bit of ayn rand.

Rand was a terrible writer, a poor philosopher, and a despicable human being.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

the only legitimate functions of a government are to protect its citizens' rights from foreign invaders and domestic criminals and to arbitrate disputes through a judiciary.

No surprise here.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

enron wasn't the result of corruption as much as stupidity.

No, Enron was unbelievably corrupt. There's no argument here. Debate over. Enron should have been a lesson to us all.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

yup, public schools should go.

This is what happens when you grasp on to an idea that seems to make common sense and then religiously apply that idea to every facet of life. The error comes when you can't see that the insanity of the results clues you in to the inherent problems within the original idea.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

soooo . . . can you tell i'm a philosophy major yet?

No, you sound like every other greedy prick I knew as an undergrad who read a couple books and went to a couple of classes and latched on to bad ideas that supported their fucked perspective.

Originally Posted by qprogeny79

yeah, i'm going to law school (hopefully), so in a decade or so i should be able to buy and sell the lot of you.

You'll fit in in Law School. Sorry to be an asshole.....