[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

You conflate what politicians do with what I am talking about. However that is understandable, from my experience talking with you in the past few years about politics, elections in particular, it seems you put a lot of inevitable faith (I'm not sure this is the best choice in words, but I can't think of a more apt way to phrase what I am thinking) in politicians and the political process. That is not the focus of what I am talking about, merely one side of the equation. Education, community initiative, economic reform, these things are substantive factors which must also be directly and consistently addressed.


Unfortunately that is too many degrees not true, so advocacy is just as important as action.

i've seen it at all kinds of levels, from classroom debate to community organizing to union organizing to city council to mayoral & state elections to arts management to novel writing etc etc etc-- so many "progressives" that much rather bitch than build unless it's all kinds of "the white man/ the rich man made me do it" excuse-making.

here's a funny (funny curious not funny haha) thing i heard from a black libertarian economist: before the minimum wage, black unemployment was nearly non-existent. since the establishment of the minimum wage, black unemployment began to grow.

now, there may be all kinds of arguments for and against the minimum wage, but a black libertarian economist saying those kinds of things is contrary to everything the stereotypical left will teach you. the same guy saying that affirmative action hurts rather than help blacks will be labeled as "he's not really black". anything that makes you think "hey, maybe everything i knew is wrong" is instantly labeled and suppressed. "uncle tom" "sellout" "house negro" etc. etc.

i'm not agreeing with the guy necessarily, i'm saying that any questioning of the same old shit will be suppressed by those who profit from things as they are-- the politics of the oppressed victim.

as a "minority" myself, married to another "minority" person, i'm sick and tired of bullshit minority pandering and bullcaca that gets nothing done except perpetuate a toxic ideology of resentment that harms people's outlook, aspirations, and relations with others. fuck that bullshit. it's self-ghettoization. culture doesn't have to be limited by genetics-- ideas have no skin color-- everybody needs to open their thick skulls, grow, and look past the mindset that created the old problems because that is the same mindset that perpetuates them.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You make some interesting points, however, I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. Just because some folks take race politics to various hypocritical extremes, doesn't negate its value or aptness. I loath sycophants within contemporary politics as well, trust that. Further, I've heard the minimum wage debate, but I think that analysts who argue that reducing the minimum wage increases employment aren't looking at the bigger picture, because at what cost? Sure. There have always been exploitative jobs, but as progressive policies in the work place increase, that is canceled out in the long arc. The pro-Walmartization crowd also argue that Walmart does more to benefit the poor than anything else. True, but poor people only benefit from cheap goods at Walmart because they work at Walmart wages and can't afford to pay more. If wages increase, so does purchasing power and business improves. Cut-throat capitalism is too short sighted. It doesn't examine the long-arc. Neither does those analyses which minimize or negate the effect and impact of race on our society, our politics, and our economy. Racism is deeply embedded in our mutual history, and simply put, 40 years isn't long enough to suddenly negate the legacy and impact of the 350 years that preceded it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Racism is deeply embedded in our mutual history, and simply put, 40 years isn't long enough to suddenly negate the legacy and impact of the 350 years that preceded it.

and yet an individual human life is way shorter than 350 years, so i personally have no time to keep moaning about oppression, imperialism, genocide and other crimes against "my people" while (i'm paraphrasing a great poet here) there is sooooo much fucking work to do.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Yes, but !@#$%!, the history is built into this society, culture, economy and politics. Some folks have a disproportionate share of the previous generations wealth and resources, not necessarily out of spite or personal racism, but the inherent racial divided structure. So this generational poverty is inescapable without more direct, affirmative action. (pun intended). There is indeed a shitload of work to do, but a lot of involved disentangling the baggage from the past, but working directly in the present towards the future. However and again, just because we are upset, frustrated, or jaded by the almost cliched reality of it, reality is what it is. This is not ancient history, this is today. That map of generational poverty in 2013 America I posted from today's NY Times headlines demonstrates even casually how modernly relevant this issue remains. If you are not tripping, that is cool, but stop throwing salt on those of us who remain passionate in the struggle. It makes you at times come across as sympathetic with assholes like this dude..

 

Or this mercilessly weak-hearted sell-out of a woman.

 

[!@#$%!]

i don't have a time machine to go back and kill the cavalry, all i can do is work with what i have today and not worry about who has more than me or why did they inherit or how many generations went to harvard when i didn't bla bla bla. the present-- it's all we have. and the ideology of resentment squanders that present.

i'm not saying not to recognize racism, mind you-- i'm saying recognize it, deal with it, and move on instead of being single-mindedly stuck in it like flypaper. IT'S BAD MENTAL HEALTH.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i don't have a time machine to go back and kill the cavalry, all i can do is work with what i have today and not worry about who has more than me or why did they inherit when i didn't bla bla bla. the present-- it's all we have. and the ideology of resentment squanders that present.

i'm not saying not to recognize racism, mind you-- i'm saying recognize it, deal with it, and move on instead of being single-mindedly stuck in it. IT'S BAD PSYCHOLOGY.

If you ain't part of the solution, you're inherently part of the problem, like it or not. So if you want to take a passive approach to this, cool, but stop pissing on reality. Don't veil your jaded apathy behind supposed ideology. You know the struggle remains, if you aren't interested in keeping with it, cool, but again, stop throwing salt on those who remain in the work.

 

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

If you ain't part of the solution, you're inherently part of the problem, like it or not. So if you want to take a passive approach to this, cool, but stop pissing on reality. Don't veil your jaded apathy behind supposed ideology. You know the struggle remains, if you aren't interested in keeping with it, cool, but again, stop throwing salt on those who remain in the work.

 

pffffffftttt

there is nothing "passive" about doing work that needs to be done. what's passive and defeating is all the constant blaming of someone else for your personal problems. yes, personal problems are also political but if you never believe you have a choice then you'll never have it.

you confuse my rejection of inept toxic ideologies with "apathy". there is nothing apathetic about thinking critically about the effect of regurgitated ideologies and saying "fuck off."

there is nothing apathetic about working in the present rather than sitting on one's ass crying about the past wrongs our grandparents suffered.

there is nothing apathetic about working to do what needs doing instead of crying all day that "it's the white man's fault" or that "the rich people have rigged the game".

it's the loser talk that's killing people right now-- people who have been brainwashed with the idea that "the world rejects me because i'm black/native/mixblood so why even try". oh shit, i see so much of that.

whereas the world needs people who can show up on time and get the job done and solve problems and doesn't really give a shit about your ancestry or your last name. but do they teach you that at ideology camp? no they don't. instead they teach you how to continue to be oppressed and make excuses. ridiculous.

alright, i gotta get off the internet. you can have the last word.

[!@#$%!]

well, no. let thomas sowell have the last word. haa haaa haaa haaa.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...2/0/politics06

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you can have the last word.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

If you ain't part of the solution, you're inherently part of the problem, like it or not. So if you want to take a passive approach to this, cool, but stop pissing on reality. Don't veil your jaded apathy behind supposed ideology. You know the struggle remains, if you aren't interested in keeping with it, cool, but again, stop throwing salt on those who remain in the work.

 

Already did

[tesla69]

The average pensioner in Detroit gets 18K a year. for all the moaning about unions, they end up with 18K a year.

[Rob Instigator]

the only people who truly moan about Unions are the ones who have to pay their "demands." Those demands got us a 5 day work week, an 8 hour work day, health insurance, maternity leave, paid sick time, pensions, etc.

fuck anti-union idiots.

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the only people who truly moan about Unions are the ones who have to pay their "demands." Those demands got us a 5 day work week, an 8 hour work day, health insurance, maternity leave, paid sick time, pensions, etc.

fuck anti-union idiots.

Anti-union people also see the idiots who take advantage of privileges.

[!@#$%!]

"Compromise and tolerance are not the hallmarks of true believers. What they believe in goes to the heart of what they are. As far as true believers are concerned, you are either one of Us or one of Them."

[Rob Instigator]

the whole of existence is populated by a few people who "take advantage" of whatever situation is at hand. That is no reason to stop unions. That is more reason to be vigilant.

should we cancel all police forces because there are a few cops that "take advantage" of being cops?

That is stupid.

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the only people who truly moan about Unions are the ones who have to pay their "demands." Those demands got us a 5 day work week, an 8 hour work day, health insurance, maternity leave, paid sick time, pensions, etc.

fuck anti-union idiots.

Other than pensions.....it seems that the government can handle the rest...Should the workers have to pay ANOTHER person to govern their dickhead bosses?

[!@#$%!]

that's the problem with trusting government or any other bloated institution with your retirement. fuckers can't deliver.

better to buy into an index fund and sit on it.

ps- social security has a negative rate of return

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tesla69 again.

[dead_battery]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

better to buy into an index fund and sit on it.

indeed! im starting to try and learn about all this stuff.

low end dividend is supposedly the place to start investing.

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by EVOLghost

Other than pensions.....it seems that the government can handle the rest...Should the workers have to pay ANOTHER person to govern their dickhead bosses?

fuck the government. The government was forced to enact everything I stated BY THE UNIONS. Otherwise the government does whatever the rich fuck who owns the companies says to do.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]