[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

Would you rather he just stagnate, and make the same record over and over again? The title track from that album was one of the best tracks of 2012. Meek Mill on the opener, killin it like it was 95? Pusha T on Name me King? Fucking shit was dope, though Chris Brown should be retroactively removed from all the good albums that have been sullied by his fucking presence.

Also, to be sure, none of Game's records reflect being stagnate, there is a progression and an evolution, but Jesus Piece doesn't necessarily reflect that.

[Bytor Peltor]

Straight Up Afro Funk

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

I love this thread right now.

I love when sev goes on tirades like that.

suchfriends, you're my boy. But that tirade was dope haha. But I get what you're saying too. I just don't feel it w/ Jesus Piece. I like that album.

RE: The Red Album, I agree there's moments that are out of place. But I said no Game album (proper) sucks. There might be misfires, but the albums, on a whole are good. LAX has phenomenal tracks. But a couple missteps for sure. What was that ladies jam on there that I always skip?

Also, no idea the Jeezy was out yet. Haven't kept up w/ him too close. Knew one was coming but didn't know it was out.

SGP's Intoxxxicated I'm w/ you sev. That album is so unique. I think it's great. Rick Ross might be my fav hip hop album of the year. I'm still not sick of Iggy, though she's slipped down a few notches sure.

Anyway,

 

Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP - 2000 - Aftermath
If the Eminem on The Slim Shady LP was a laughably over-the-top caricature of violence, drugs and debauchery, then the one heard here is his polar opposite. Dark, depressed, angry. This is Eminem backed into a corner by his own unexpected success and lashing out at the world around him. Though as usually the line between fantasy and reality is stupidly blurred so it's hard to make out who's voice we're hearing from moment to moment: Eminem? Slim? Marshall? Whoever it is, this is an extremely compelling album. It's an impressive follow-up that comes pretty hot on the heels of Slim's breakthrough album. It's also somewhat a line drawn in the sand - a challenge to his own fans. In a sense it's as if he tries to offend and disgust enough to lose as many listeners as possible. I mean the album opens with "Kill You," a track aimed at his own mom. And killing isn't even the only thing he does. But it shouldn't be written off as a gross-out album either. "Stan" is an obvious example with its vivid storytelling and dual roles played by Em. It's a haunting track that is goosebump-worthy, and follows "Kill You." If that isn't foreshadowing of the bipolar journey that the rest of the album will be! And that's the point. This isn't a simple album. It's got many layers and many stories being told by many voices - regardless of who's name is on the cover.

 

Lil Wayne - Tha Carter III - 2008 - Cash Money
To truly hear Tha Carter III you need to hear everything that it isn't. What I mean by this is that the year leading up to its release was flooded with so much Lil Wayne - some sanctioned and some leaked. There was enough quality material released that an album just as strong - or stronger could have been compiled from its outtakes alone. And that's the double-edged sword here. No matter how successful the album is proper, it was prone to disappoint fans for leaving off something ("Feel Like Dying" deserved to be an album cut!). But with that inevitability admitted, it really is a successful album. Although its far less cohesive than its predecessor, Carter III is a sprawling work that varies from crazy stream-of-conscious mixtape Wayne ("Dr. Carter," "Phone Home," "Let The Beat Build"), serious storyteller Wayne ("Tie My Hands," Playing With Fire") and definitely poised for superstardom Wayne ("Comfortable," "Lollipop," "Mr. Carter"). While certainly this was the album where the cries of "sellout!" begin, it's hard to hate on the sheer pleasure that Weezy takes in playing with words throughout this album. This is at a point where his craft was so sharpened from the run of mixtapes he had been using as shadowboxing. So even the attempts at radio play here tend to have at least something interesting going on. It would be easy for him to stick to autopilot on a track like "Got Money" right? But he has fun riding the beat all over the place, switching over to Rihanna's "Umbrella" vocal melody. On the other end of the spectrum who would really think to use autotune on a track like "Ain't Got Nuthin" that features Juelz Santana and Fabolous going so hard over an Alchemist beat? This is truly a transitional album. One that works amazingly well.

You know I'm with you 100% on Carter III. At the time of its release, Weezy was an artist I couldn't understand. I didn't even really give him a chance until Dedication 2 & 3, which helped me get a feeling for his raw power as an emcee. But I couldn't understand why he was being taken so seriously as an artist, or why HARDCORE, intellectual hip-hop fans were in his corner. I guess memories of Hot Boyz and the CashMkbeh label at its ostentatious worst were still too fresh in my head.

I think you're right, that in order to "get" the significance of C3, one really has to spend some time with the first two Carter LP's and Wayne's self-reinvention as a grown up rapper. So while it was Dedication that made me stand up and take notice, and it was C2 that made me think, "ok, this ninja is the real deal, and he has his own unique voice and presence in hip hop," it was Carter III that made my jaw drop, and made it so that even I, who was pretty much only bumping Wu-Tang (a personal renaissance of Wu thanks to 8 Diagrams), Jigga, Nas and underground classics like Dr Oc and The Cold Vein at the time, HAD to admit that the hype was, for once, true and accurate to the point of being a fucking collective cultural understatement.

It was so good it was almost a fucking mistake. It shined so bright compared to the lil Johns of the world that it stopped Wayne's critical and commercial rise cold, leaving nowhere for the poor guy to go but down. Now I still love Carter IV, and the remaining Dedications. I even like IANAHB2. But he might as well have been 2 Chainz (nothing against 2 cheezy ) from C4 forward.

Now he's done his experimental shit, which I'm normally all for but in Wayne's case I believe he was simply running from the fear of self-comparison. Why else would he make rock and blues projects? He was fucking scared.

And now, after early reports suggested that CV was going to be more "mature," his review in last month's XXL indicated that he had no such thing in mind. And that's sad, because what's really startling aboht Carter III is how fucking smart it is. It ends with an open letter to one of the country's leading voices on the socio-economic status of Black Americans, and it not just stoned babble- It's a legitimate argument!! And he has the cahones to say "Al Sharpton, Indint respect you, and I never will and this is why."

That was a mature moment. Wayne has it in him to be THAT LIL WAYNE 24/7, but he can't let the kids think he's going soft or going political...no no must make sure everyone knows Wayne likes pussy and money. So teens will want to bump his shit in the ghetto.

all that aside, and regardless of what the future
holds for Weezy-- whether it's more of the same, or another inspired mainline into the cultural and musical zeitgeist-- Tha Carter III is an album that has secured itself a spot on the list of the most important and game-changing hip hop records ever made, and that's something that nobody can take away from Wayne... Not even Wayne himself.

[Severian]

The MMLP signifies a cultural low point for hip hop though. I can't stand that shit. Thank God 50 cent came around to take some of the spotlight away from Em's goldilocks bitch ass. Sorry NR. No offense. I just can't get in board with that one.

[noisereductions]

sev, no offense taken. It's all opinions of course. You don't have to like Em. He's one of those dudes that's really frustrating to me. But interesting nonetheless. MMLP is def a fav of mine in his discography though.

as far as Weezy goes, we were in slightly similar boats, but not. I paid no attention to him, thinking at the time that any rapper w/ "Lil" in his name was probably lame. But same thing. Buzz started happening. Trusted sources buzzing. And I heard "Shooter" cuz my wife had the Robin Thicke album it was on. I was gonna wow'd. So I went out and got Carter II and my mind was just completely blown. After that I got really into his mixtape scene - had really followed that in 2007. So when Carter III came out, it was one of those days where my calendar looked like this: (1) wake up, (2) buy Carter III, (3) listen to Carter III, (4) repeat #3. In my mind it was the last great 'release date' because I can vividly remember going from store to store looking for a copy that came w/ The Leak bonus disc (never found one) and I mean it was early in the morning and there were crowds of dudes there just to buy C3. And remember, 2008 was like officially iTunes/digital music era by now right? But it was still a big deal for THIS ALBUM that people wanted to guy to a store and buy it. Was awesome.

But yeah that closing track. You def feel the same as me. Those real serious tracks - the ones where he had a story to tell, an opinion to voice, SOMETHING TO SAY - I miss those. Hard. They were the real reason he seemed like a hero at the time. And at least back then his freeform tracks tended to have a theme: "Phone Home" used alien puns, "Dr. Carter" used medical terms, and so on. Now it's tough to look at the lyrics of his album tracks and see them as much different than his mixtape freestyles.

Also I agree w/ you on WHY he made Rebirth. But I also really like Rebirth, ha!

[louder]

i tried to revisit MMLP a few days ago.. i used to love it back in the day, but i can't listen to it anymore. didn't even survive the 4th track.

however i really like Relapse. might be my fav from him, and i hate most of his albums. weird.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Severian

The MMLP signifies a cultural low point for hip hop though. I can't stand that shit. Thank God 50 cent came around to take some of the spotlight away from Em's goldilocks bitch ass. Sorry NR. No offense. I just can't get in board with that one.

I was going to totally agree with you until you mentioned 50 Cent being some kind of savior instead of a penultimate product of that cultural low point signified by the rise of Eminem

Fuck 50 Cent dude is whack.

[Rob Instigator]

Anyone ever find out who 50 cent hired to assassinate Jam Master Jay?

[noisereductions]

 

Common - One Day It'll All Make Sense - 1997 - Relativity
One Day It'll All Make Sense is a really good album. Except when it's not. It is a truly transitional record. One where an artist is not only re-evaluating his position in music, but also in life. It's a soul-searching record. A brutally honest one. And while that makes for a riveting listen most of the time, it also means there's some horrible self-indulgence to wade through as well. The album starts off strong, kicking off with the jazzy "Invocation" that wouldn't sound out of place on Resurrection three years earlier. A few tracks later we get to "Retrospect For Life," an amazing story-driven track where Common lays out his fears, doubts and complete apprehension of becoming a father. It's perhaps one of the most honest hip hop tracks I can think of about the prospect of fatherhood. What's most compelling is that it doesn't paint Common as just excited or scared, but as downright human even if it might make him look selfish and immature at moments. The track gains extra levity knowing that he became a father by the time the album came out, yet those second-thoughts about not just a child but about the mother are left there for the world to hear. While the first third of the record stays solid - even while switching gears to 80's hip hop tribute with guests De La Soul, there's a sudden shift around the middle of the record. There's a lot of meandering. "Gaining One's Definition" explores the subject of religion, but there's a bit too much Cee-Lo and not enough Common. "My City," is interesting the first time, but it throws the momentum way off to sit through a five minute spoken word by Malik Yusef every time. A few tracks later "All Night Long" with Erykah Badu starts to shift things back into focus, though admittedly its seven minute runtime is a bit too much as well. Thankfully most of the remaining third stays pretty great. A suite about being robbed( "Stolen Moments" parts I-III) make for an interesting storyline with Q-Tip and Black Thought as guests, "1, 2 Many" finds Common back in his early boom-bap flow style and "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" is a nice breezy walk down memory lane. Ultimately there's plenty to like on this album, but there's also about a third that feels skip-worthy. It feels like Common had ambitions that were maybe bigger than need be. Or maybe he just had too much he wanted to say for a single album.

[Severian]

I think Eminem is intolerable, guys. I didn't always feel this way! When I was younger I found a sort of lovable cartoonish novelty in Em's music. He reminded me of a more "layered" bullshit hip-hop caricature than Insane Clown Possee (who I always felt could have been more interesting if only they'd tried to create a more interesting and multidimensional level of fantasy)

But something about his delivery, his style, whatever cancer of the ear nose and throat he has that make voice sound like an ultra-serious Quasimoto doppelgänger, who rhymes with the frustrated impotence of a child slinging insults in a fight that he is very publicly losing... Something about the whole goddamn package (not to mention those stupid cheekbones of his when he's looking all GQ when he's posing w/ Dre & J. Lovine for a Beats ad) just makes me feel like I've just puked in my mouth.

Not even the Slim Shady LP stands the test of time for me. And -- get this-- I honestly CANNOT even tolerate the songs he's done with artists I like (Nikki Minaj, Rhianna) or even artists I fucking LOVE (Jay-Z). I am just so uninterested, and moreover, actually repulsed by everything about him that I can't abide a single song he's featured on.

There are no other rappers I hate quite that much. For instance, I really don't give a fuck about Ludacris or Memphis Bleek. But I don't skip tracks they contribute guest spots to just to avoid them. Hell naw!

J feel like Eminem is truly the Elvis of hip hop. Just as Elvis came around with a slight, white, variation on blues and gospel, and ended up being the face of these genres, as well as country, soul, and "Rock n' Roll," Eminem came out with a version of hip-hop that rap hating rednecks, fans of rap-rock & nü-metal, and those motherfuckers who said "the only rap I like is Cypress Hill" (in other words: "I'm a big fucking racist!") but still bounced around in Pumas and sagging jeans, saying "yo bitch" and smoking Ritalin in between classes.

I really believe Eminem kept the racism that divided hip-hop from "real music" alive, despite all of his supposed reverence and respect for black people." He was never really given the whole "cultural appropriation" treatment from the media, and what's really fucking strange is that a *majority* of the young black men I know (who are really very accepting of my pasty white Irish office boy ass, and for whom I am quite the token *white* guy, like Bryan Cranston's character on Malcolm in the Middle (haha... Anyone? Please tell me you know what I'm talking about) ... Anyway what's strange is that everyone in this group of friends I occasionally play pool, talk sports and music, and occasionally have a few beers with after work... EVERYONE sites Eminem as one of their favorite, if not their favorite, emcee of all time.

Granted, they're mostly younger guys. Old enough to have kids and and wives, but still, their average age is somewhere between twenty-four and twenty-six, making them (sigh) ... Much younger than I am. So they really grew up while Em was the biggest artist in popular music, irrespective of genre. But still, they LOVE him, and talk about him like he's fucking Michael Jordan!

So that is what really plucks my feathers. I don't think Em deliberately appropriated shit. I think he was genuinely a devout lover of hip hop, and I think he was blind to color. No matter what you think of him, it takes serious cahones to come up in Detroit's battle scene when you look like howdy doody. But he definitely gave the racist fucks of the world a ton of help. Finally you could be white and love hip-hop and not be written off as completely non-legit, even if you only liked fuckwads like Em, Everlast, fucking House of Pain,
and Cypress Hill ( who I actually love, by the way.)

Anyway, I just find it odd that my friends believe Em to be the best ever. Though to be fair, they aren't old enough to remember ATCQ, and they know the name "Wu-Tang Clan" but they don't know Wu-Tang Clan.

Am I a terrible person for even writing about this topic?

Anyway, fuck Elvis and his stupid guns and sequins... Fuck Nixon too.

[Rob Instigator]

You don't think that Eminem has a shitton of people (financial backers, record company folks, sponsors, etc.) pushing him and his music to ensure that it stays appealing to white folk who would not actually listen to any other hip hop?

[noisereductions]

btw, this is probably an even more unpopular opinion: but ICP is really not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. They're a gimmick, sure. But they can be really fun. I usually get in the mood around Halloween. It's just shlocky silly b-movie cheese that I can enjoy at times.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I was going to totally agree with you until you mentioned 50 Cent being some kind of savior instead of a penultimate product of that cultural low point signified by the rise of Eminem

Fuck 50 Cent dude is whack.

Sorry man, I disagree. 50 Cent was like some kind of savior when he broke, because he was better than Em, and he actually threatened Em's rule.

Compared to the real deal, top shelf hip hop artists, like Kanye RZA/GZA/Rae/GFK, and the shit tons of other "up from the street"
emcees who turned their street savvy into marketing genius (Jay-Z, Danny Brown, so many others that I can't think of who to name next), then yeah- 50 Cent is a blip on the hip hop radar.

But when it comes to that weird brand of street rap that resonates immediately with mainstream audiences, leading to breakout sales and media notoriety... Heavy on showmanship and presentation, who are specifically going for the exact same type of success that Pac & Biggie had (and let's face it, that's 50's basic m.o.) he was a goddamn godsend compared to Eminem.

In My Hood, Death to my Enemies, pretty much all of Get Rich... And the Massacre, G-Unit, fuck, even Animal Ambition & Self-Destruct... I really enjoy those albums because they feel like no bullshit gangsta rap, and they're like perfectly designed for blasting at a party or bumpin' from your car stereo on your drive to work.

50's fun as hell, and some of his records are just classics. He'll never be, not has he ever been one of the great emcees or acts in the genre, and there's nothing genius about him, but I'd be talking out of my ass if I said he didn't bring me joy, dumb as some of his shit is, it's still like a downpour after a drought when compared to Eminem's sad dominion over every fucking part of popular culture.

Sev. out!

[noisereductions]

I like 50 but "rap god" is better than anything he ever spit.

[noisereductions]

ok, so this is a prime example of 'different but overlapping tastes.' Of course, I totally disagree on Em (and I'm not sure how you wouldn't like something like "Criminal" w/ Hov, but I digress...), and while I *technically* disagree on 50 - meaning I don't see him as any sort of savior or whatever, I completely agree that he was programmed to be a star. Y'know for all the talk he did of seeing him "in the club," apparently that's not what Curtis was like at all. Meaning he was all biz. When I read Prodigy's book he talked about how if you knew Curtis you'd never see him drink or smoke because he was just too focused on work.

As a rapper, I don't find Fif remotely as talented as Em. But this isn't a competition. Nor is my opinion more valid than yours. 50 definitely knew how to work w/ what he has. And he knew what people wanted. He delivered.

I feel like G-Unit took what Dipset did and streamlined it. I mean everything was so calculated. It was a biz for sure. Right down to recruiting Buck and Game.

I admit I haven't heard everything in his discography. I haven't heard Get Rich in whole yet. But I did recently pick it up. The singles are all awesome on it though.

Animal Ambition from this year was pretty boring. But it's not "bad." There wasn't really anything on it that I hated... just nothing I really loved.

I recently talked in this thread about how shockingly good Beg For Mercy is.

I'll try to listen to Get Rich soon and leave my thoughts. I also have No Mercy No Fear and Terminate On Sight that I found recently too. Oh damn, apparently I have Massacre too haha.

[louder]

50 was never the best rapper from a technical standpoint, but his confidence made up for it.

Get Rich or Die Tryin' is amazing.. every song sounds like a single.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

I like 50 but "rap god" is better than anything he ever spit.

Whoah, dude. That's a crazy crazy thing you just said. Are you chewing on peyote buttons? Having an identity crisis? Feeling a lapse in you relationship with Jesus?

Nah I'm just fuckin' (and giving you shit at the same time, which says a lot about by organizational skills.. Zing!!)

I admit "Rap God" was kind of a triumphant single. I think the lyrics were specifically intended for artists like Kanye West, Kendrick, possibly Drake to a lesser extent.. Basically, the current "untouchables" ruling the rap game. What's funny though is that Kanye Has kept up his momentum for 10 years at this point, and record sales aside (because frankly yes, they've taken a downturn... but that's true of everyone) .. Anyway, sales aside, he's more popular than ever. He's still making platinum albums, even if he's not making quintuple-platinum ones, and he's still scoring hits, even if he's not releasing single after single after single that are all making it to #1 on the billboard charts.

And Drake has only grown in influence and popularity as well, though I still want to punch his lint-Rollin' bitchass Degrasse face. And guess what? He's doing it by essentially taking turn by turn directions from Yeezy! It's like he has the voice of Ye on his iPhone instead of Siri, and he's just making a career out of studying and reimagining 808's & Heartbreak!

And Kendrick... Well... Kendrick is a powerhouse. The most talented emcee of the bunch. I'd "Rap God" was an attempt to one-up Kendrick's rapid-fire assassination of every name in the game on "Control," it.. Failed. Hah. I'm not actually sure which came first at this point, but Em is clearly a bit terrified by Kendrick. I believe that's the reason he wanted to play nice and collaborate with the kid on MMLP2; so he wouldn't have to eventually respond to a challenge.

Em is not representative of hip hop. He's a pop star. He's like Lady Gaga, only with a smaller vagina.

Maybe I should revisit the albums I did like early on. The Eminem Show, Slim Shady, etc. I have nothing to say about Relapse or Recovery, or MMLP1 or it's weird sequel. But I respect Dre's production... But I'm pretty sure I gave Em another chance last year. I'm pretty sure I wrote something about it. And in pretty sure I was disgusted

[louder]

most of Dre's production for Em is on Relapse. he barely did anything on the other albums.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by louder

most of Dre's production for Em is on Relapse. he barely did anything on the other albums.

MMLP has:

Kill You
Who Knew
The Real Slim Shady
Remember Me
I'm Back
Bitch Please II

Encore has:

Evil Deeds
Mosh
Rain Man
Big Weenie
Just Lose It
Ass Like That
Encore

...I mean, yeah Relapse is like all Dre. But those 2 albums are half-Dre-ish.

Anyway, I agree that Relapse has great production. And I do like a lot of that album.

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Severian

Whoah, dude. That's a crazy crazy thing you just said. Are you chewing on peyote buttons? Having an identity crisis? Feeling a lapse in you relationship with Jesus?

I'm just talking about the flow. I mean, Em has a verse that is so rapid it's insane and then flips to a way slowed down flow. It's awesome. Impressive.

And Drake has only grown in influence and popularity as well, though I still want to punch his lint-Rollin' bitchass Degrasse face. And guess what? He's doing it by essentially taking turn by turn directions from Yeezy! It's like he has the voice of Ye on his iPhone instead of Siri, and he's just making a career out of studying and reimagining 808's & Heartbreak!

Yeah crazy right? Ye made 808s - and it sort of seemed to 'create' a new sub-genre. The sensitive dudes who sing... and rap. The rappers who's 3rd single from every album is a sensitive singing ballad. Whatever. But yeah Drake has become the prince of that. For sure. Ugh. It's funny, I almost find the whole thing annoying. Like I kind of want to not like Drake. But then I end up liking his albums a lot. Every. Friggin. Time.

But you right, 808s is a modern classic. Funny how it seems to be almost the Ye album that nobody remembers.

Related: I feel like "Amazing" is *maybe* my favorite Kanye single ever.

("Mercy" is a strong contender)