[Rob Instigator]

To me that is the difference between making songs and being a musician.

A true musician works hard at presenting their music and stage show in the best light for them. It means rehearsals, practice, proper use of light effects, all to create a great show. It can be very basic, but your stage presence is everything, and too many pop rap acts these days are guys who put up 5 songs on Spotify, got one hit that sounded neat, but have no idea how to present themselves at shows, do not have the stamina to perform for longer than 15 minutes, and therefore pad their shows with their friends, extra bullshit, and lame ass nonsense.

Lupe Fiasco put on a great show, when I saw him, and you can tell he worked at it beforehand.

[louder]

From what I've gathered, most trap artists are terrible performers. People always complain about how they show up late, high as fuck, and don't give a damn about their performance.

[Rob Instigator]

Hip Hop seems to be no longer about MC's moving the crowd. It is as vacuous a live show as a pop star's, with some idiot rapping to his full track being played on some cocksmear's ipad.

a live show is superfulous nowadays it seems. what a shame.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

well, it's kinda a question that's only relevant to you really. yr speaking from yr own experience and what you've heard.

I think young kids should be curious about anything. they usually are when bored. if not then they're either shallow or dumb. dumbass kids are the WORST!!!

Ha! What. Ha!

[EDIT: To alleviate some of peper's confusion, I'M LAUGHING BECAUSE I THINK HE'S FUNNY.]

[Severian]

Did y'all not catch that bit about Kim K. basically saying TLOP was going to go on sale as soon as it was done?

....

Damn, throw a guy a bone!

To quote Kendrick Lamar: "when the shit hits the fan is you still a fan?"

Well... is you?!?!?!!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

uh, hey, did I not read that correctly or did you just not understand? he's stating that most new hip hop and/or old is a fleeting moment to him. why should that be relevant to kids that don't know better. maybe they get bored and venture out or maybe they addictively wait for new hip hop singles which, seems to be the case these days.

What the fuck is your problem? I was just cracking up about your "dumbass kids are the worst" line. I thought it was funny.

I wasn't commenting on the Rob conversation at all.

So... you read it wrong.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by pepper_green

let me dumbass this down even more: he's saying that kids feel the same as him. so that's the reason kids don't seek out old hip hop.


fucking hell man! that's why it's only relevant to him.

You really think I'm a dumbass? Please. You're lucky I don't take a red pen to half your posts, young man.

Anyway, again, I was just saying "hah hah, you're funny pepper_green."

I do think Rob's question about "dance" music being hard to connect with in a meaningful way is is a good one, and deserves a more analytical answer than what you're giving him.

But I wasn't talking about that. I was giving you props for being funny and irreverent. Thanks for insinuating that I'm a dumbass, though. (I'm a lot of things, but "dumb" is not one of them.)

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Ooh yeah, I'm super interested in this! I'm actually heading out of town on an assignment today to a place with an actual goddamn music store that isn't Target or Best Buy, so maybe I'll pick this up!

You heard Bas yet bro?

Not yet. I'll get on it this weekend.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

(BTW, I cannot stand that neo-soul-jazzy-R&B shit that esperanza spaulding plays. I hate that shit so bad.)

This new album is very different though. It's much more rock 'n' roll than neo soul. Who knows, maybe you'll like it.

[louder]

I understand where Rob is coming from by the way, there are many young hip hop listeners who don't care about older artists. The likes of Young Thug (whose appeal is basically a big 'fuck you' to the history of hip hop) are everything for them and more.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I have always felt that there is a reason beat-based music (dance music, techno/edm, much of hip hop) does not hold up as well as riff-based music (blues, rock, folk) over the years of repeated listens.

To me it is that dance music ( and I am being very general here) is meant to be felt immediately, to make your body move. It takes very exceptional songcraft to make a dance song into something that gets better and better with each listen. Of course you can dance to anything, but I am referring to the quick way in which dance music seems dated and old as compared to riff-based musics.

I love listening to Young Thug, Future, Rich Homie Quan, Chedda, etc. but I also am not avoiding the fact that after 10-15 listens the magic that initially got me into it is gone. I feel that dance music (and hip hop, for the most part, iks dance music) is intended for a visceral experience, and must be simplified to suit it.

What do you guys think?

When I listen to many 10+ year old hip hop tracks it feels very inert and dead, no matter how amazing I found it upon first listen.

Do you think this is why so many young people have no interest in digging into the musical history of hip hop? Like, even the rappers now seem to have no connection emotionally to anything older than 6 years old.

just curious as to what you guys think about this.

I'm not sure what Rob's getting at is actually being addressed. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem as though his concern is that kids/new artists don't listen to older hip-hop.

It seems to me that he's saying:
There's something inherent about "non-organic" (for lack of a better terms) music that makes it more transitory and less likely to leave a lasting impression/make a lasting impact.

I think in some cases this is true, partly because as Rob noted, there is an immediacy to hip-hop/dance/party music. It's made for one purpose and one purpose only. Also, it's less relatable, because there's kind of an invisible curtain that makes it difficult to identify what the sounds are, where they're coming from, and how they're made. And whether it's hip-hop or dance music, there's a language issue at play. Theses genres rely heavily on vocal samples, and it's more difficult to hear what's being said and usually it can be difficult to relate to what's being said for anyone outside the culture.

Guitar/bass/drum/singer music is more traditionally relatable. On a broader level. There's science behind this. When you see four dudes playing live instruments on a stage, hear the words coming out of their mouths, theres a connection that takes place on a human level. It's related to how we attend to and prioritize information, how we learn, how we form memories...

If the music is secondary to the dancing, it's a different experience entirely. You don't have time to focus on the people making the music. You're swinging yourself around like a rag doll and you're probably five different kinds of fucked up and if it's just a DJ flipping vinyl, or a monkey with a MacBook, there's no facial or linguistic recognition. Different parts of your brain are activated. It's more "of the moment" ... And therefore less likely to form a lasting memory or emotional connection.

But that's not a hard and fast rule. I've been to DJ sets and IDM shows that were extremely emotionally powerful experiences for me. So much so that I remember them years later. But at the same time, I feel like I remember an absurd amount of no-name basement bands better than I remember theatre and arena gigs, regardless of what type of music was being played. And I think it has a lot to do with universal non-verbal communication. A singer looks you in the eye, you notice. Can't see a singer's eyes because you're 80 feet away? Who cares? There are no eyes because you're just listening to a record some dude is spinning? Yeah, very little intimate connection going on there.

But I'm a big fan of elecronic music, dance music and hip-hop, so that shit resonates with me fairly well.

I'm blah-ing. I know it. Blah.

[louder]

New Domo Gensis single from his upcoming album "Genesis," featuring our boy Anderson Paak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLiMrd45I0M

[louder]

It's hilarious how Domo decided to call his album "Genesis" after Wiz called his album "Khalifa," since they both had a project called "Rolling Papers" a few years ago. I'm noticing a pattern.

[louder]

Kanye just said he's gonna drop not 2.. but 3 albums this year?! https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/708670997612908546

[louder]

Wildheart (by Miguel) from last year is mad underrated.. that and Black Messiah are my most played albums, along with TPAB.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

Wildheart (by Miguel) from last year is mad underrated.. that and Black Messiah are my most played albums, along with TPAB.

Hey, I was meaning to ask you what you think of his new EP. I listened to the track "Waves" (no relation ) yesterday and thought it was really fucking good. I never got into Wildheart, but I think I'll be picking it up now.

Also, I listened to TPAB all the way through on Thurs. and I really enjoyed it. I've identified some of the problems I have with its flow (I just plain can't listen to "u" ... It's painful), but all of the full length non-interlude tracks on that record now have 5-star ratings on my iTunes. My favorites are still "Mortal Man," "Alright" and "The Blacker the Berry," but everything else is goddamn dope too. I just have to skip some of the incidental music and interludes unless I want the whole cinematic experience, which I sometimes do. Still prefer good kid, but TPAB has better individual songs, I think.

[louder]

WAVES is my song! The new EP is dope and really interesting, even though it's just a bunch of Waves remixes. But yeah, get Wildheart for the full experience!

Miguel insists that Wildheart is a rock album.. it's a great mixture of rock, funk, r&b and psychedelic music. I'm very excited by how R&B artists are starting to implement rock elements into their albums again, probably for the first time since the 80's. Honestly that shit is just next level. It adds sexiness and raw energy that is much needed. We heard it on Black Messiah where D'Angelo played a badass riff on 1000 Deaths. And now we've got that new Esperanza album.. even Frank said that his next album is influenced by The Beatles and The Beach Boys, whenever that comes out. I'd love to hear a rock album from Anderson Paak too.

And I fully understand how you're feeling about TPAB, it's not the easiest listen in the world for most people. Thankfully we have untitled unmastered. now which is another gem.

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by Severian

Kanye Wear is done releasing CD's/vinyl/physical music.

According to Pitchfork, Ye posted several tweets to this effect last night, saying "no more CD's from me."



Since I have no qualms with getting my hands on the music by any means necessary, I don't actually mind that much. In fact, maybe this will mean more music in the long run. Not having to worry about packaging, or how critics will respond to the inconsequential shit.

Who knows... Maybe we really will have a new project titled Turbo Grafx 16 as early as this summer.

Anyway, point is: NOISEREDUCTIONS! Listen to TLOP bro! For fuck's sake man, don't hold out for a mind/game change at this point. The fact that Ye deliberately kept his album off Billboard (along with Beyoncé) suggests that this is part of a plan that's already in motion.

Everybody's heard the album but you mang!

Nah I haven't heard it yet. Mostly because Himself Himself has not assured me that he is done fucking with it. When it is clear to me that TLOP really is finished, then I will consider. I know this could take some time!!

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

you know I read that yesterday and shook my head. I've always defended Ye's insanity. But I Feel like he's pushing my buttons for real right now. It's not even about the physical CD's man. It's about the monopoly. YOU HAVE TO SIGN UP FOR THIS ONE SERVICE TO GET THE ALBUM LEGALLY? Fuck that.

And...this.

[Skuj]

Originally Posted by Severian

Here's hoping Ye makes the following changes to Pablo:

• removing Chris Brown from Waves and putting absolutely anyone in his place. I love the song, but I can't listen to Chris Brown sing "let me crash here for a moment, I don't have to own it" without thinking about a black and blue Rihanna. *shudders*

• turns "Facts" into an explicitly labeled bonus track, or just takes it off the album entirely.

• lets Chance put his goddamn verse on Waves! What the hell? Chance was apparently the reason the album was delayed until Feb. 14th. Apparently he was working on Waves. Kanye went ahead and made the world wait, then released the album without Chance's fucking verse!!! I want more Chance!! I want more Chance the Rapper and Kanye collabs! "Ultralight Beam" is like the best thing ever! Make it happen again!!

• includes the Madonna cut of "Highlights." I've come to really love the album version as is, even though it's got Thugger's bitch ass on it, so I don't nevessarily want the Mo version to replace the current one, but I think it should be on there. Maybe as a bonus track, kinda like how Late Registration had two takes of "Diamonds From Sierra Leone," and used the remix as the album track and the less interesting original as the bonus. Eh?

• Puts Sia and Vic back on "Wolves" ... "Wolves" is one song that he has mentioned by name, with the intention of "fixing" it. It sounds great on the album as is, but it would be great if those of us who've been waiting around for a studio version of the song we heard on SNL would finally fucking get one.

• Remove "I love Kanye" ... I laughed the first time, smiled when it came on the second time, but my smile fades after about 12 seconds. Not necessary. Plays like a skit. Get it off thay bitch.

That's just my ideal scenario for a final TLOP. Actually my ideal scenario would probably include "Only One" and "All Day", and I could do without "Low lights" even though it adds to the album's concept. It's still a great, great, great, great album-ish-type-thing, and I doubt anythjng will outshine it for me this year even if it stays as is. But it could be a perfect 10, and it isn't quite perfect at present.

Here's hoping his craziness, fickle, mind-changing tendencies work in our favor and he goes back on 90% of the things e's said in the last month.

I just want him to finish it. This "release" is the greatest clusterfuck in music history. Of course it has been downloaded illegally 500,000+ times.