[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

My thoughts and opinions are my own!

I’ve made ZERO assumptions about anything you’ve said in this thread.

well, you replied to my post with a long rant about gun banning, so it looked like it was a reply to me. i’ve never asked for gun bans.

but okay maybe a misunderstanding

i am for “a well regulated militia” though, and while now we have the national guard i still think we need rational regulation of a fundamental right. can’t be a free for all.

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

You think it’s bad now, you should have grown up in Texas during the 70’s and 80’s......GUNS were everywhere! A shoebox or laying it on high, like on top of a bookshelf were the go-to preventive measures of my day.

i didn’t, but that’s the kind of thing that needs to end. the casual approach.

back in the day people used to drive drunk a lot too, and without seatbelts. that was never a good thing in the first place.

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

Sad but true, Jason and his younger brother found and were messing with a handgun their single mom had in the apartment. The younger brother accidentally shot Jason, paralyzing him from the waist down. When Jason finally returned to Jr. High, I had the privilege of picking him up out of his wheelchair and carrying him upstairs daily (only dropped him once) because our Jr. High didn’t have an elivator......talk about a deterrent from playing with guns.

well that wasn’t a deterrent. that was a consequence of not doing the right thing. i don’t know who jason is but this is the sort of shit that needs to stop to so casually happen. right?

because it’s not just school shootings. it’s also a lot of accidental deaths and crimes committed with stolen guns.

let’s deter gun theft for starters. enough with having guns casually laying around the house.

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

Regarding your question, I am uncertain of the laws pertaining to GUNS in personal domiciles?

i don’t know either but here’s were we need to start talking about standards of safekeeping and what constitutes negligence on the owner’s part. ETA: see the end of this post for laws about that.

switzerland has different laws and since everyone is in the army (‘well regulated militia’) people keep actual military weapons at home. locked in a safe.

anybody who has weapons should be required to have a safe. count the safe as part of the weapon. enough of this loose and random shit. and drunk driving.

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

I firmly believe in and practice responsibility! My wife and I have raised our kids to do the same. I locked up my bicycle when riding it to my school or the mall, but I didn’t lock it up when I parked it in my garage or at my best friends house.
I was never worried about my family or his family members stealing my bike......but times change!

times change indeed and just because you practice responsibility it doesn’t mean that everybody else does or does it by the same standards.

this is where sensible regulations come in. just like mandatory seatbelts and insurance for driving. for harm reduction, not for perfection. people are always gonna die, doesn’t mean it needs to be a constant gratuitous carnage like we have now. it’s gotten out of hand.

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

The Santa Fe shooter was 17, an adult in the Stste of Texas.

not really an adult but can be tried like one, right? or is it something else? please explain

btw was just looking at texas law and it says this:

An adult will be held responsible if a minor under the age of 17 gains access to a weapon. It is deemed negligible if the adult did not secure the weapon in an appropriate place and the firearm can be readily used.

this shit needs to be tightened and advertised and prosecuted in draconian fashion. apparently the dad just escaped prosecution cuz the kid is not “under” 17?

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

back in the day people used to drive drunk a lot too, and without seatbelts. that was never a good thing in the first place.


well that wasn’t a deterrent. that was a consequence of not doing the right thing

not really an adult but can be tried like one, right? or is it something else? please explain

btw was just looking at texas law and it says this:

An adult will be held responsible if a minor under the age of 17 gains access to a weapon. It is deemed negligible if the adult did not secure the weapon in an appropriate place and the firearm can be readily used.

this shit needs to be tightened and advertised and prosecuted in draconian fashion. apparently the dad just escaped prosecution cuz the kid is not “under” 17?

People are killed daily by drunk drivers...no difference there!

The deterrent for me was having to pick my classmate up out of his wheelchair and lug his deadweight up the stairs......seeing him having to use a catheter in the restroom. Very impactful on Jr. High me!

The State Of Texas considers you an adult the day your 17. From shoplifting to murder, you go to the County / City Jail and on to prison if convicted. If 16 when committing a crime, you go to Juvenile Detention and your case stays in the Juvenile Courts (Records not made public).

Starting at age 14, the Juvenile Court can petition the adult court for a hearing to Certify a Juvenile as an adult on a specific charge......murder, sexual assault of a minor, extreme abuse.

Most of my family members have gun cabinets (think china cabinet). Beautiful wood with glass front for showing off your collection......not necessarily to keep people from having access to them.

I highly doubt a Texas Jury will convict anyone for having a loaded gun in their bedside nightstand instead a safe......same for weapons kept in vehicles. I could be 100% wrong, but I don’t see it happening here.

[!@#$%!]

no they wouldnt prosecute it but that’s the thing

40% of crimes are commited with stolen guns!

check this: 600k guns are stolen every year nowadays. 600,000! numbers going up with guns stolen from cars.

the other thing i thought about is: neither you nor i knew the laws for domestic placement of guns before this.

why the hell is that? how come i know that driving 15mph over the limit is reckless driving but i dont know what constitutes negligence when keeping guns? why didnt i have to pass a test of competence and understanding to prove that im capable of using a tool for killing? no psychiatric eval or anything? it’s nuts!

again im all for the right to defend your home and family and i have weapons but it’s just too easy. i wouldnt have minded taking a test.

and no, people dont drive drunk these days the way they did half a century ago.

they dont smoke as much either.

laws and regulations and social policy have not eliminated drunk driving or smoking but have reduced it.

again not asking for perfection just harm reduction. make responsible gun ownership mandatory, not optional.

[Savage Clone]

Yeah, but.....Texas.

[Rob Instigator]

most stolen guns and many legaly purchased guns head across the border to Mexico. It is very hard to get a gun there.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

most stolen guns and many legaly purchased guns head across the border to Mexico. It is very hard to get a gun there.

i know a lot of people here don’t give a shit about “what happens in mexico” (that’s not you obviously in case somebody wants to misread), so for those people who only care about their tribe i’ll repeat: 40% of gun crimes here are committed with stolen guns.

yes that still leaves another 60% that needs addressing.

for that, check out the houston chief of police who wants gun sense not lunatic fringe policies

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...ooting-w520657

[Rob Instigator]

My wife and I were discussing the rash of young boys and men laying waste to people at schools and such.


It is such a wide range of reasons for all of this that it makes it hard to seek out solutions. I will list the ones I am aware of:



1-Teenage boys, in fact, all teenagers, are hard-wired to think in didactic, dualistic terms. their brains are entering their final stage of development, and it is during this age of 15-21 that the brain develops actual complexity of awareness. At the age of 17 a young, disaffected, angry boy thinks of nothing else but his pain and perceived lack of pain in those around him who he resents. I was that kid. I look at the drawings and writings and scribbles I find in my old high school notebooks and it is the exact same stuff. Drawings of teachers decapitated. writing song lyrics about throwing grenades into the teacher's lounge. Endless drawings of people cut up and bleeding and soldiers and conan slicing fools, etc. I was RAGE FILLED, but I was lucky to have truly caring parents. It used to be that this innate anger and rage in teen boys was channelled to physical activity, whether sports, or scouting, or some sort of thing. These kids, like me at that time, cannot foresee positive changes, or their own growth which will lead to happiness. to a teenager, today is how it is, and it will be that way forever. learning otherwise is part of "growing up."



2-Back in the late 70's the gun manufacturers dropped their ad campaigns about hunting, becuase the move to Urban living effectively curtailed much of the hunting culture. They then proceeded to lobby US politicians to allow the sale of military-"STYLE" weaponry to civilians. Thie resulted in early 1990's, in laws changing which allowed the gun manufacturers to sell "watered-down" versions of military hardware. the only caveat was that they would not be FULL_AUTO, which is a red herring. the guns still fire dozens of rounds quickly, still can fire in three-round, semi-auto bursts, etc. This has led to a proliferation of NON_HUNTING firearms in our country. people buy these guns as toys, as gun-range toys, and their kids ahve easy access.


3-This is the first generation of children that has, since a very young age, been fed psychotropic medication to control their "manias" or smooth out their "rough edges." These meds are dangerous if used correctly, and even more risky if used incorrectly. It is a known fact that these meds cause suicidal thoughts, rage, feelings of alienation, detachment, etc. even in people who are HELPED by them. Instead of parenting, we have laZY assholes raising kids through pills and medication.


4-These types of attacks do not happen in private schools in USA. I think the difference is that, even if they are a angry or disaffected, most children fortunate enough to attend private school have HOPE for their future. HOPE. that is what the angry, detached, disassociated people do not have. Too many young men and women are growing up hopeless that anything they do will alter their shitty life. "rich kids" while they have their issues, live their lives knowing that there is always a safety net, and always a goal to strive for, whether it is to continue in the family legacy, or to manage the family finances, or to run the family business, etc. Hopelessness leads to rage and leads to exacting revenge on the world around you.


5-the lack of involvement in children's day to day lives from parents who are either too busy, too lazy, or too stupid to take the time to supervise their children properly. Teachers preach about this, how they are expected to serve as children,s parents, nannies, caretakers, therapist, etc, which leaves little time for actual education.





I say, any kid that does this shit? arrest the parents. arrest them PUBLICLY. You ARE liable for what your child does, until they are emancipated or of age.

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

most children fortunate enough to attend private school have HOPE for their future. HOPE. that is what the angry, detached, disassociated people do not have. Too many young men and women are growing up hopeless that anything they do will alter their shitty life. "rich kids" while they have their issues, live their lives knowing that there is always a safety net, and always a goal to strive for, whether it is to continue in the family legacy, or to manage the family finances, or to run the family business, etc.
.

affluent mass killers:

James Holmes, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Charles Whitman, Stephen Paddock,Adam Lanza.

it's not the poverty or the schools

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

affluent mass killers:

James Holmes, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Charles Whitman, Stephen Paddock,Adam Lanza.

it's not the poverty or the schools

middle class in public schools is NOT what I referred to.




whitman was NOT affluent. his dad was a self-made orphan.


Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were NOT affluent. one was a military brat. these were regular middle class kids in public schools.




Adam Lanza WAS from a better-off family. his issues mirror the other points I made above.


Stephen Paddock was anaffluent ADULT. His issues are not of concern to what I wrote above. Franklly, Whitman was a full adult too. he had a brain TUMOR.


James Holmes dad was an academic. his mom a nurse. THAT IS NOT AFFLUENT

[Rob Instigator]

I never said it was the poverty or the schools. You need to read again.


I said it was the lack of hope experienced by the non-affluent disaffected boys that drives this insane, mass-harming rage.

[evollove]

I thought point 2 was novel and interesting. Not dismissing your other points, but this is one I never came across and I find it compelling.

[ilduclo]

I guess our definitions of affluent are widely divergent.

[!@#$%!]

good thing this guy had “only” a stun gun and not a pistol

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ds-police-say/

[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

I guess our definitions of affluent are widely divergent.

by "affluent" I mean a household than can afford to send it's kids to $25,000/year private school from grade 1 to college. Or a household where money for the next round of bills is never a concern.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

by "affluent" I mean a household than can afford to send it's kids to $25,000/year private school from grade 1 to college. Or a household where money for the next round of bills is never a concern.

i know what you’re saying. those sociopaths don’t grow up to kill 20 people with a gun. they grow up to destroy millions of people by raiding their pension funds or launching wars for oil and that sort of thing.

[Rob Instigator]

yep.

[ilduclo]

private schools are subsidized now in the world o trump

[!@#$%!]

noblesville indiana hasnt even made it to the news

“only”2 shot, the whole school traumatized of course

pence is of course “praying”. braying more like.

[Bytor Peltor]

Texas School and Firearm Safety Action Plan from Texas Governor Greg Abbott

[Bytor Peltor]

UK Judge Calls For Ban On Kitchen Knives