[ricechex]

holy shit that is so weird. i saw that. it's kinda funny and he probably meant it in a "let me lighten this place up" way. he's the political frank drebin from naked gun. but this is a fuckin international G8 meeting about a serious war in the middle east. ya know? the dude doesn't care about anything but the power that comes along with being the most powerful man in the world.

he still hasn't asked for a cease fire. it's the right thing to do, regardless of anything. And it's a complete tacid arrangement with the hardliners in israel that are feeling threatened by the rapid rise of radical islamists, risen ironically by bush's hopeless push for democracy in that region through force. let it happen naturally. its the only way. don't lie about WMD and turn into democracy for all. like i say, people r too smart for that. one of the first things a lebonese woman said on tv after israel killed her family was "this is bush's fault" , ranting about the U.S policy, the west policy, not anything about israel directly..that is how terrorism is bred.

[Bastian]

Isn´t it about time to change the title of this thread into "Hizbollah vs. the rest of the middle east"?!

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

With the exception of the Palestinians, the Arab world appears to be united in blaming Iran and Syria for the fighting in Lebanon. Until last week, Arab political analysts and government officials were reluctant to criticize Hizbullah in public. But now that Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah and his top aides are in hiding, an anti-Hizbullah coalition is emerging not only in Lebanon, but in several other Arab countries as well.[..]

[Tokolosh]

Most people in Lebanon don't give a shit about Hezbollah and have never voted for them. Those cunt's are just as bad as the Israeli forces that are invading. They hide in civilian populated areas and think that the Israeli forces won't dare to bomb the suburbs flat.

[atari 2600]

yeah "most" --- 55% Tokolosh, but er ah...Tony Blair just made the same misleading statement you just did when he addressed Paliament today.

An estimated 45% of citizens of Lebanon are Shiite fundamentalists & support Hezbollah. The current fighting is sure to push those numbers into the majority, as planned.

In Iraq we saw "free & democratic elections" basically translate to Sunni disenfranchisement & a push that elected a Shiite state-sponsored hardline Muslim extremist government just like neighbor Iran. This same trend will continue throughout the Middle East as the U.S. supposedly fights for "freedom" & instead engenders a new, much larger wave of anti-Zionist terrorists.

If one wants to boil all this down & distill it, then the basic substance of it all is that the U.S. is manipulating things to help the Shias gain a great amount of power in the whole mideast region. We are in league with them covertly & have been since Reagan. The push is being made to create a real terrorist enemy, much more substantial than the rag-tag al-Queda. It seems the DOD, the DOE, the military-industrial complex, & corrupt politicians want to be sure to create a scenario by which they can continue to pass bloated budgets that they can siphon & steal from at will. As the world has reached peak oil & the shit is certainly about to hit the fan in the coming years, those that are in power are making a mad grab for as much money as they can get their grubby hands on & if one addresses it properly, the same politicians can always villify the concerned critic by pointing a finger right back at them...you see, it's the "perfect" crime. Back during the cold war, one was a "commie" if they criticized U.S. policy. These days, one is labelled a "terrorist sympathizer" if they spread the truth that could threaten the activities of the thieves.

[Florya]

I have no problem with Israel going after the Hizbollah guys that are firing rockets from the southern border of Lebanon into northern Israel.

That would be self defence.

What I find offensive is Israel's deliberate targetting of civilian infrastructure like power stations and fuel depots, the deliberate targetting of legitimate and highly visible aid convoys that include ambulances, telling civilians to leave their villages and then targetting their cars and trucks when they do.

My feeling is that Israel has been waiting for an excuse to take revenge on Lebanon for the bitchslap they were given in 2000.

This is not Israel v Hizbollah, this is Israel v Lebanon.

This will go on til Lebanon is fucked.
Hezbollah will never disappear. Attacking terrorist organisations only makes them stronger if you look at the history of the region.

Why doesn't Bush want a ceasefire?

Look at it this way - Israel is killing Arabs. The US supports Israel when they kill Arabs. Israel needs weapons with which to kill Arabs. The US supplies Israel with weapons. Israel gives the US lots of money for those weapons. That money goes towards funding the Iraq fiasco where, surprise surprise, the US is killing Arabs.

Rumsfeld and Cheney must be laughing their asses off!

[Florya]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

the U.S. is manipulating things to help the Shias gain a great amount of power in the whole mideast region. We are in league with them covertly & have been since Reagan. The push is being made to create a real terrorist enemy, much more substantial than the rag-tag al Qaida

Good point Atari. Hadn't thought of that.

[sonicl]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Was Bush's mic faux pas staged or really real?

I wondered that too.

[Lurker]

[quote=Bastian]Isn´t it about time to change the title of this thread into "Hizbollah vs. the rest of the middle east"?!
[quote]

It's Hesballah

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by Florya

Hezbollah will never disappear. Attacking terrorist organisations only makes them stronger if you look at the history of the region.

Not attacking terrorist organisations is what makes them stronger. If a terrorist organisation is losing important personal all the time and needs to replace it`s leaders every few months, this will make it harder for them to function.

Look at it this way - Israel is killing Arabs. The US supports Israel when they kill Arabs. Israel needs weapons with which to kill Arabs. The US supplies Israel with weapons. Israel gives the US lots of money for those weapons. That money goes towards funding the Iraq fiasco where, surprise surprise, the US is killing Arabs.

Pretty weak argument. There`s more money to make in selling arms to hunderts of millions of arabs, whose countries own plenty of oil, than to the tiny state of Israel.

Surprise, surprise: In Iraq, most arabs (and mostly arab civilians that is) are killed by: arabs! The USA is trying to prevent this, and sacrifices american soldiers for it. What do you think would happen after a premature pull-out from Iraq? Most likely civil war. That`s why America is putting it`s soldiers into danger to enable the Iraqi democracy to get stronger, to rebuild it`s army and police force, and to eventually (hopefully soon) be able to control Iraq on it`s own, without US support.

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Florya

Rumsfeld and Cheney must be laughing their asses off!

On 9/11, Rumsfield was in NYC at a meeting of the board of directors of The Carlyle Group, a prominent military contractor. Perhaps he was laughing his ass off as he watched the events unfold because the plan was coming together.

On 9/11, Cheney is reported to have been giving the order to stand down at NORAD in Colorado, essentially telling our military that it was "all a drill." Whether it's true or not is not clear, but some ex-employees & their lawyers also maintain that they are still being hounded by the CIA for spilling those particular beans.

[Bastian]

[quote=Lurker][quote=Bastian]Isn´t it about time to change the title of this thread into "Hizbollah vs. the rest of the middle east"?!

It's Hesballah

Sorry, I was using a different transliteration.
Well, actually it`s this, anyways:

‮حزب الل

[atari 2600]

There's lots of acceptable anglicized spellings, but all in all, I'm just trying to ignore Bastian's posts.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
- George Santayana

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

There's lots of acceptable anglicized spellings, but all in all, I'm just trying to ignore Bastian's posts.

Well, that`s probarly easier than discussing about the points I raise.

[atari 2600]

I have found from previous political threads that engaging in debate with someone that merely parrots the media's perspective is about as effective as banging my head against a wall.

My words will stand just as yours will & the reader will decide.

How about that for a novel concept?

I have no use for the endless post-quoting & all that eventual crap as the thread gets polluted with muck.

To that end, you have just been placed on my ignore list.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Bastian

[
‮

حزب الل

Right, well I'll spell it like that from now on.

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Right, well I'll spell it like that from now on.

Oh, seems like your computer does not support arabic writing. Sorry about that.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

I have found from previous political threads that engaging in debate with someone that merely parrots the media's perspective is about as effective as banging my head against a wall.

My words will stand just as yours will & the reader will decide.

How about that for a novel concept?

I have no use for the endless post-quoting & all that eventual crap as the thread gets polluted with muck.

To that end, you have just been placed on my ignore list.

That's why i don't engage with such threads in the first place.There are more interesting ways to do your bit rather than the internet.And that's a fact.

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

I have found from previous political threads that engaging in debate with someone that merely parrots the media's perspective is about as effective as banging my head against a wall.

My words will stand just as yours will & the reader will decide.

How about that for a novel concept?

I have no use for the endless post-quoting & all that eventual crap as the thread gets polluted with muck.

To that end, you have just been placed on my ignore list.

Allright. Thanks for the "simpleton" though (nice quick edit job!).
Even though you can`t read me anymore now. It´s so much easier with your head in the sand, isn`t it.

"Merely parroting the media", allright. Too bad now you`ll never tell me were you get your informations and views from. By reading the media and thinking the exact opposite? Or what media I`m parroting exactly, since there seem to be a lot different, sometimes quite opposed positions to this whole situation in the media. Oh well..

[atari 2600]

Yeah, porkmarras, I'm just a slow learner, whereas we all know of your probing insights & far-reaching political activism. You people slay me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atari 2600
Was Bush's mic faux pas staged or really real?

Originally Posted by sonicl

I wondered that too.

In the open mic "glitch" from a couple of days ago Bush named "Syria" not "Iran" & today, in a press conference he mentioned Syria, like, three times, & Iran zero times.

[Tokolosh]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

yeah "most" --- 55% Tokolosh, but er ah...Tony Blair just made the same misleading statement you just did when he addressed Paliament today.

An estimated 45% of citizens of Lebanon are Shiite fundamentalists & support Hezbollah. The current fighting is sure to push those numbers into the majority, as planned.

In Iraq we saw "free & democratic elections" basically translate to Sunni disenfranchisement & a push that elected a Shiite state-sponsored hardline Muslim extremist government just like neighbor Iran. This same trend will continue throughout the Middle East as the U.S. supposedly fights for "freedom" & instead engenders a new, much larger wave of anti-Zionist terrorists.

If one wants to boil all this down & distill it, then the basic substance of it all is that the U.S. is manipulating things to help the Shias gain a great amount of power in the whole mideast region. We are in league with them covertly & have been since Reagan. The push is being made to create a real terrorist enemy, much more substantial than the rag-tag al-Queda. It seems the DOD, the DOE, the military-industrial complex, & corrupt politicians want to be sure to create a scenario by which they can continue to pass bloated budgets that they can siphon & steal from at will. As the world has reached peak oil & the shit is certainly about to hit the fan in the coming years, those that are in power are making a mad grab for as much money as they can get their grubby hands on & if one addresses it properly, the same politicians can always villify the concerned critic by pointing a finger right back at them...you see, it's the "perfect" crime. Back during the cold war, one was a "commie" if they criticized U.S. policy. These days, one is labelled a "terrorist sympathizer" if they spread the truth that could threaten the activities of the thieves.

I actually agree with you about many of the points you made but it's nothing new. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out and the information is out there if you look in the right places. What I'm tired of hearing are all these conspiracy theories (probably true to some extent) about this or that plan the US government and some if not all European countries have up their sleeves when it comes to the middle east and their oil. The fact is that you and I will never know what's really going on behind the curtain and I think you're being pretty arrogant in this discussion by stating that I or others parrot the media's perspective. We are here to exchange ideas and hopefully find some truthful answers, not argue about how much each of us knows.