[alyasa]

Originally Posted by Iain

Again, I have to say that this is complete tosh. If only that were the case. Sure confidence and motivation are important and it's surprising how far arrogance and bullshit seem to take some people. But ultimately talent is pretty important and, I think, a fair deal of good fortune. Also, it helps if you know people.

Alas, I think (and this is in life in general, not just the arts) that arrogance, bullshit, nepotism and networking get you further than talent, passion and all that.

I know I shouldn't say anything, but I just can't help it... Basically, everyone here is being really contradictory... Most say that it's talent that should be nurtured, we want more noise records, let's hear more noise, but at the same time, you don't encourage anyone to actually go out and make any noise, this is like saying, please drop off a cliff, but try not to get injured in the process... I know there are probably at least a million people out there who have failed to make any significant impact whatsoever on music of any sort, at any given moment. Does that mean every mofo who wants to get into noise should be given a slap on the arse, a brief introduction and a curt warning to 'get it right'? Is this what encouragement is about? I'm sorry if I sound like I'm ranting needlessly, but it doesn't seem like this boy is being encouraged to make music. If anything, people are actually warning him to watch out if he decides to; which is a good thing; but, honestly, I see less of warnings and more of discouragement. Screw this, he probably doesn't even care, it's the motherfucking piece of shit internet anyway, nobody fucking cares.

[Cantankerous]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

of course! like:

 

and

 

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Cantankerous

and

 

*shudder*

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by alyasa

I know I shouldn't say anything, but I just can't help it... Basically, everyone here is being really contradictory... Most say that it's talent that should be nurtured, we want more noise records, let's hear more noise, but at the same time, you don't encourage anyone to actually go out and make any noise, this is like saying, please drop off a cliff, but try not to get injured in the process... I know there are probably at least a million people out there who have failed to make any significant impact whatsoever on music of any sort, at any given moment. Does that mean every mofo who wants to get into noise should be given a slap on the arse, a brief introduction and a curt warning to 'get it right'? Is this what encouragement is about? I'm sorry if I sound like I'm ranting needlessly, but it doesn't seem like this boy is being encouraged to make music. If anything, people are actually warning him to watch out if he decides to; which is a good thing; but, honestly, I see less of warnings and more of discouragement. Screw this, he probably doesn't even care, it's the motherfucking piece of shit internet anyway, nobody fucking cares.

well we aren't his nanny and he isn't a baby, there's no reason in particular to encourage anyone, and it's exactly that sort of nicey nicey, lets encourage everyone attitude that helps perpetuate the oceans of crap that most people seem to agree are what constitutes the majority of noise music. rigour is what is called for.

[golden child]

and who are you to say an artist isnt talented?

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by alyasa

I know I shouldn't say anything, but I just can't help it... Basically, everyone here is being really contradictory... Most say that it's talent that should be nurtured, we want more noise records, let's hear more noise, but at the same time, you don't encourage anyone to actually go out and make any noise, this is like saying, please drop off a cliff, but try not to get injured in the process... I know there are probably at least a million people out there who have failed to make any significant impact whatsoever on music of any sort, at any given moment. Does that mean every mofo who wants to get into noise should be given a slap on the arse, a brief introduction and a curt warning to 'get it right'? Is this what encouragement is about? I'm sorry if I sound like I'm ranting needlessly, but it doesn't seem like this boy is being encouraged to make music. If anything, people are actually warning him to watch out if he decides to; which is a good thing; but, honestly, I see less of warnings and more of discouragement. Screw this, he probably doesn't even care, it's the motherfucking piece of shit internet anyway, nobody fucking cares.

Right,i 'm posting from the point of view of someone who occasionally did music therapy for people with brain damage here.When it came to involve people into some music project or another,my job was not only that of spotting the degree of apparent interest into it that many of the patients showed,but also spotting the possible and realistic outcome of the whole experience.I can tell you with a passion that most people,even the most phisycally and mentally damaged ones,love being involved into creativity but get sommersed by their lacking of capabilities to size ideas and make them travel
a fruitful journey.And this i would notice on a regular basis while still being encouraging to them on many levels.

[Iain]

I didn't think this was about encouraging (or not) anyone in particular rather about the general state of 'noise' in general. And even if it was, no one is going to be helped by you-can-achieve-anything-if-you-put-your-mind-to-it type platitudes.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by golden child

and who are you to say an artist isnt talented?

because when looking at art objectively and regardless of my own preferences of taste, it is screaming fucking obvious when someone is talentless if you look at the progression of their work over a period of time.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by golden child

and who are you to say an artist isnt talented?

Yeah, yeah...but who is anyone to say whether an artist is talented or not. It's all subjective....

As it happens, I think the general trend of people releasing a load of cdrs and the whole scene is a positive thing. But that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of stuff that's pretty awful. But I applaud a general trend towards more releases rather than fewer...I think.

[Everyneurotic]

i think people have the right to express themselves thru music and noise and try to make the best they can and try as hard as they can to make it, if they believe in their music and they like it then more power to them and the best of luck but beware because people are merciless and they can fuck you up in a second.

that said...

most people who do noise aren't in it because it's their calling or because they like it even, if it was just a hobby and they would see the quality of their music in a complete objective perspective and realized that maybe it's not that good but they like doing it anyway, they wouldn't release it as a limited edition collectors' item and hype as such, they should keep it for themselves and whoever else wants to hear it. let's face it, most people playing music are in it for the glory, if not for the money (not that they will be millionaires but it's a source of income). everyone making noise now thinks that by releasing millions of stuff in limited quantities they will be these legends and influential people.

i say have some perspective and if people do noise, try to be original at the least.

[golden child]

and im not saying there isnt awful uninspiring noise, because there is.

i think we are all arguing over nothing because, we all are trying to say the same thing

[porkmarras]

Everyneurotic:i think people have the right to express themselves thru music and noise and try to make the best they can and try as hard as they can to make it, if they believe in their music and they like it then more power to them and the best of luck but beware because people are merciless and they can fuck you up in a second.

Porkmarras:But people say that cooking is an art.Cooking is a skill and IT IS NOT an art.A lot of people who know fuck all about stuff like to have an opinion on just about everything for the sake of chit chat drivel.They surely have a right to it but nevertheless they are speaking a lot bullshit.

[alyasa]

Originally Posted by Iain

I didn't think this was about encouraging (or not) anyone in particular rather about the general state of 'noise' in general. And even if it was, no one is going to be helped by you-can-achieve-anything-if-you-put-your-mind-to-it type platitudes.

Point taken. You generally speak truth, still, the opposite cannot be true, by the same logic.

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Right,i 'm posting from the point of view of someone who occasionally did music therapy for people with brain damage here.When it came to involve people into some music project or another,my job was not only that of spotting the degree of apparent interest into it that many of the patients showed,but also spotting the possible and realistic outcome of the whole experience.I can tell you with a passion that most people,even the most phisycally and mentally damaged ones,love being involved into creativity but get sommersed by their lacking of capabilities to size ideas and make them travel
a fruitful journey.And this i would notice on a regular basis while still being encouraging to them on many levels.

You are a beautiful person and you have done a beautiful thing...

[Cantankerous]

boring.

[golden child]

everyone making noise now thinks that by releasing millions of stuff in limited quantities they will be these legends and influential people.

 

[Cantankerous]

collectively: no.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Everyneurotic:i think people have the right to express themselves thru music and noise and try to make the best they can and try as hard as they can to make it, if they believe in their music and they like it then more power to them and the best of luck but beware because people are merciless and they can fuck you up in a second.

Porkmarras:But people say that cooking is an art.Cooking is a skill and IT IS NOT an art.A lot of people who know fuck all about stuff like to have an opinion on just about everything for the sake of chit chat drivel.They surely have a right to it but nevertheless they are speaking a lot bullshit.

what bad can it do to you if someone does it for the sake of their own fun and entertainment.

i also said that if people see objectively that their stuff isn't that good or original that they should keep it for themselves and for theirt own pleasure.

also, if people don't like what they hear, they can simply ignore it and go on to the next thing.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by alyasa

Point taken. You generally speak truth, still, the opposite cannot be true, by the same logic.

You are a beautiful person and you have done a beautiful thing...

Thanks but my point is,enthuisiasm alone is simply not enough when it comes to being creative.You have to be cruel in order to be kind sometimes.If you are not objectively critical of your/somebody's work and you don't question stuff in a constructive manner,such work that you want to improve will only get worse.

[jheii]

Originally Posted by golden child

and who are you to say an artist isnt talented?

A potential admirer, who for reasons just as good as any decided that he doesn't like Artist A, or whatever. The people with no knowledge have the most important opinions when it comes to any sort of art.

[acousticrock87]

Talent is a fact. Interest is an opinion.

Talent is an ability. If you have an ability to play guitar very fast, or very creatively, or an ability to please many people with your art, you're talented. You can't just be talented 'in one person's opinion.' The question is merely whether that talent interests you. Thus, if he doesn't, the artist is subjectively uninteresting. Not untalented. And it's perfectly acceptable for anyone to consider any artist to be uninteresting.