[demonrail666]

Well that surely seals it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Well that surely seals it.

but what if a meteorite..

...

...


haaa haaa haaa

—

really the best team of the season. as much as i like liverpool they lack bench depth and are overdependent on a couple of players like mo or firmino.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

really the best team of the season. as much as i like liverpool they lack bench depth and are overdependent on a couple of players like mo or firmino.

Liverpool will likely finish just 1 point behind MC. Hardly enough to start talking about shortcomings. You don't finish a season with (probably) 97 points by being over-reliant on anyone, or lacking depth. Fact is the two teams have been pretty much inseparable all season and the title could've easily gone either way, on merit.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Liverpool will likely finish just 1 point behind MC. Hardly enough to start talking about shortcomings. You don't finish a season with (probably) 97 points by being over-reliant on anyone, or lacking depth. Fact is the two teams have been pretty much inseparable all season and the title could've easily gone either way, on merit.

i don’t know man. debruyne was magic he’s injured half season and man city manages fine.

they have kun, they have jesus, they have sane, they have sterling, they have 2 silvas, they have ilkay, stones, laporte, mendy, fernandinho... an embarrassment of riches.

firmino goes missing and liverpool suddenly can’t score. their best midfielder is a beast but rather long in the tooth. if something happened to van dijk i don’t know what would happen to their defense.

chelsea had a debacle, manchester united had a debacle, arsenal is still arsenal, so that helps functional teams rise. spurs has great talent but the same thin bench problem for top level (no kane=no go)

liverpool just needs to get a bit more top talent on rotation so they can better absorb the wear and tear and they’ll kill all next year.

[choc e-Claire]

Imagine losing one game all season and still not winning the premiership.

My dad and I were discussing the possibilities of a tiebreaker match for the title - it's still possible, but we'd need Liverpool to draw 4-4 and City to lose 0-4. (Or a 5-5 draw and a 1-5 loss, etc.) Not going to happen, but how amazing would it be?

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

they have kun, they have jesus, they have sane, they have sterling, they have 2 silvas, they have ilkay, stones, laporte, mendy, fernandinho... an embarrassment of riches.

Yeah, but you can hardly put Man City as the standard, and say that any team that doesn't have their depth is somehow lacking. Not even Barcelona or Real have that size/quality of squad.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

firmino goes missing and liverpool suddenly can’t score.

Look at the stats, he only missed 3 league games all season, in which Liverpool scored a total of 13 goals! I do agree he's pivotal to their style but when you're averaging 4+ goals a game without your star striker, you could almost wonder why they even bother playing him in the 1st place.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

their best midfielder is a beast but rather long in the tooth

Long in the tooth? He's 26!! He's only starting to hit his prime. And he's probably gonna finish this season as league top scorer. Yes this has been a relatively quiet season for him, but only in the context of what he achieved last year, which is like saying Messi had a quiet game after scoring a hat-trick cos in the previous game he scored 5.

I ultimately agree with Claire: mathematically MC will probably win, but taken as a whole I don't think you can really separate them.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, but you can hardly put Man City as the standard, and say that any team that doesn't have their depth is somehow lacking. Not even Barcelona or Real have that size/quality of squad.

but it has to be the standard if you want to beat them. otherwise the odds are very long.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Look at the stats, he only missed 3 league games all season, in which Liverpool scored a total of 13 goals! I do agree he's pivotal to their style but when you're averaging 4+ goals a game without your star striker, you could almost wonder why they even bother playing him in the 1st place.

i was thinking of the latest destruction they suffered at barcelona. "they played well but lost" is nice but doesn't get you the champions league.

firmino was also subbed out at 31' in the 0-0 vs. man u which started their season of wasteful ties this spring. mo and mane were out of it without him, or maybe out of fatigue, or both.

this spring they also had 3 ties vs. 3 non-top teams:

liverpool-leicester 1-1 at anfield (milner out)
west ham-liverpool 1-1 (and west ham had no artie to boot)
everton-liverpool 0-0, mo out with groin injury

[eta: no offense to those teams but when you chase the title vs man city those are defeats]

yes, margins for the top place are thin as fuck, but statistics add up. not just points but goal differences. which is precisely why you have to achieve greater parity with man city's bench to reliably beat them.

small things accrue. you can only make it so far with "spirit' and "determination" if a grinding season will wear out your indispensable players.

who in man city is indispensable? honest question. i don't know their team as deeply as you do. which one player can you take out that would break them?

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Long in the tooth? He's 26!! He's only starting to hit his prime. And he's probably gonna finish this season as league top scorer. Yes this has been a relatively quiet season for him, but only in the context of what he achieved last year, which is like saying Messi had a quiet game after scoring a hat-trick cos in the previous game he scored 5.

oh i meant milner ha ha ha. "old reliable" at 33. fantastic player but can't give you 90 minutes twice a week. who did you mean?

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I ultimately agree with Claire: mathematically MC will probably win, but taken as a whole I don't think you can really separate them.

"mathematically" is the only way to win

[!@#$%!]

ps- i also remember you complaining of klopp treating the fa cup like the rodney dangerfield of football. and i thought he was smart to do that. there's only so much butter you can spread on so many pieces of toast.

tl;dr: needs more butter

[demonrail666]

yes, margins for the top place are thin as fuck, but statistics add up. not just points but goal differences.

Yeah, they do, and over the course of a season I still say there's essentially nothing in it.

Look at the middle of the table. West Ham are a point behind Watford with 2 goals difference between them. They're where they are on merit but how is anyone meant to unravel their respective seasons to see where West Ham fell short of Watford? A goal here, a decision there.

who in man city is indispensable? honest question. i don't know their team as deeply as you do. which one player can you take out that would break them?

None, insofar as they'd break without them, but ones who I think they feel most when they're not there are Fernandinho and, I have to say, Aguero.

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ps- i also remember you complaining of klopp treating the fa cup like the rodney dangerfield of football.

That sounds like something H8kurdt might've said. I don't usually criticise managers for disrespecting the FA Cup, especially if they're going for bigger trophies.

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ps- i also remember you complaining of klopp treating the fa cup like the rodney dangerfield of football. and i thought he was smart to do that. there's only so much butter you can spread on so many pieces of toast.

tl;dr: needs more butter

Pfft nah, he was a fucking idiot for doing that. Another season without a trophy. How many managers at that level can go four seasons without winning zip? Baffles me how he gets a pass cos he choked in a final AGAIN last season.

Lack of depth in the squad? Hardly. They've had Shaqiri on the bench for god knows how long and when he does turn up he ends up setting up the free kick that won the game against Newcastle. That's Klopps issue. They've got a midfield big enough to cope with the extra games. Plus they have the *bites lip* the ...*snigger* one of the self confessed greatest defenders in the world on the bench.

A team having the depth of Man City is a rarity. Three teams have won the double with a lot less players being rotated than City

[h8kurdt]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

That sounds like something H8kurdt might've said. I don't usually criticise managers for disrespecting the FA Cup, especially if they're going for bigger trophies.

Love you too. Xo

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Yeah, they do, and over the course of a season I still say there's essentially nothing in it.

Look at the middle of the table. West Ham are a point behind Watford with 2 goals difference between them. They're where they are on merit but how is anyone meant to unravel their respective seasons to see where West Ham fell short of Watford? A goal here, a decision there.

hm, i don't really know watford, so i couldn't tell you, but the reason i like the table format over the playoff system of american sports (tables first, cup in the end) is that it demands a consistent performance over the course of a season rather than random luck.

and yes there is an element of randomness in everything, but the law of averages tends to prevail, especially over the long run.

one thing is man city beating liverpool 2 to 1 in january. fine, a fluke.

but with the 4 ties liverpool suffered in the spring, they shat the bed.

and maybe it's wear and tear from grinding out such a long and busy season.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

None, insofar as they'd break without them, but ones who I think they feel most when they're not there are Fernandinho and, I have to say, Aguero.

ah yeah el kun really can bring man city out of a slump. i haven't watched fernandinho so much.

and i don't superfollow man city, but my impression of them is that everyone is fairly replaceable, whereas liverpool really suffers when missing starters.

it would be interesting to find the stats to see what is the average time played per game by each team's starters.

i'd suspect liverpool might show something resembling a power distribution (asymptotic) while man city would be closer to a normal (bell) curve. this would explain wear and tear in the 2nd half of the season.

at this level of success liverpool should start looking at poaching players not just from smaller teams, but also from man u, chelsea, arsenal, etc. so that they could become more resilient.

e.g., i think adding aubameyang to their front 3 would allow for a sublime and permanently deadly rotation that would fucking cream any defense.

i mean, if you were the boston red sox, who would you buy this summer?

Originally Posted by demonrail666

That sounds like something H8kurdt might've said. I don't usually criticise managers for disrespecting the FA Cup, especially if they're going for bigger trophies.

oh yes! it was him lol. just checked. yeah.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Lack of depth in the squad? Hardly. They've had Shaqiri on the bench for god knows how long and when he does turn up he ends up setting up the free kick that won the game against Newcastle. That's Klopps issue. They've got a midfield big enough to cope with the extra games. Plus they have the *bites lip* the ...*snigger* one of the self confessed greatest defenders in the world on the bench.

A team having the depth of Man City is a rarity. Three teams have won the double with a lot less players being rotated than City

when??

this "rarity" is about to win 2 prems in a row. this "rarity" is your new normal.

yes yes, tradition, history, something something, whatever. this is today.

liverpool needs to be able to rotate their deadly forwards more reliably. i stand by this.

--

eta: also, who will replace milner? i don't think henderson is the same quality. milner i think has the rare ability to make everyone else play better around him. plus that mulefoot of his when you need to score.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

hm, i don't really know watford, so i couldn't tell you

The point is nobody can. Over the course of a season, you can't make a qualitative comparison between two teams separated by just 1 point and 2 goals.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The point is nobody can. Over the course of a season, you can't make a qualitative comparison between two teams separated by just 1 point and 2 goals.

qualitative does not count. nobody wins on "deserves" and moral victories.

i've been speaking about quantitative factors all along. increasing odds, improving results consistently. this is how teams get trophies.

liverpool is losing on the numbers. points and goal difference. they're going to miss the champions and the prem for 2 years in a row.

and per h8kurdt's criticism also fa/carabobo/other misses.

man city won 2 carabobos in a row and now are about to win the glorious historical fa cup as well. against this famous midtable watford.

*deep bench*

[demonrail666]

We can argue about Prem standings, or the CL, but lets not waste our time on the FA or (spare me) the Carabao cup, as though either team really gives a shit about those anymore. The Carabao's been tin pot since I can remember and the FA Cup's becoming less and less prestigious every year. It still matters for teams in lower leagues or lower down in the Prem but no one's gonna tell me any of the big 6 consider it anything other than a consolation prize now. Criticise Klopp for fielding a weakened side if you like, but show me a big 6 manager in the last 10 years who hasn't done the same. And let's do everyone a favour and just act like the Carabao isn't even a thing now, if it ever was.

[!@#$%!]

we dont have to give a shit about those cups (i don’t), but results show that man city can fight and win 3 fronts as further proof of their robustness. it’s not just the prem. i got some schadenfreude when they got kicked out of the champions, but maybe that was the fluke, VAR and all.

i’m not saying liverpool is not glorious. it is. but it’s fragile. and i want them to win, not burn out in the last stretch.

man city is, to an extent, antifragile (see: nassim taleb). by this i mean not just robustness, but thriving under siege. if their bench can play at the level of their starters, then the whole team gets better when their starters are not around. a bit of what happened with debruyne gone. everyone can take turns and keep up the level. in other teams, the subs can’t match the level regardless of practice.

anyway. i’m repeating myself now.

liverpool should get hazard haa haaa haaa

[h8kurdt]

Why has no one mentioned the game?!

Incredible performance. Honestly not even gonna be bitter on this one cos they played. Barca off the park. Plus that was the greatest corner we'll ever see in our lives. Except for the one David Beckham score from taking a corner when playing for Preston.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by h8kurdt

Why has no one mentioned the game?!

Incredible performance. Honestly not even gonna be bitter on this one cos they played. Barca off the park. Plus that was the greatest corner we'll ever see in our lives. Except for the one David Beckham score from taking a corner when playing for Preston.

ah fuck i did not see. had work all day. you lucky europeans having games in the evening

[!@#$%!]

Holy Shit They Won????

YYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS