[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by HenryHill51

I think part of this is true regarding US TV versus European TV. At the very least, European TV was willing to produce some pretty heady stuff in the 70's and 80's. German TV financed Rainer Werner Fassbinder over the course of two decades and series like "World On A Wire", "Berlin Alexanderplitz" and the newly re-restored "Eight Hours Are Not A Day"- besides being proclaimed as masterpieces now- were adventurous attempts for TV series/movies. Likewise, French filmmakers such as Jacques Rivette ("Out 1"), Marcel Ophuls (a host of WW2 documentaries) and Maurice Pialat ("A House in the Woods") all ventured into the TV realm. I know there's alot more I've forgotten.

American TV, during that same time, were content with freakin' "Hunter" or "Cagney and Lacey". Perhaps the most "adventurous" we got was financing Marvin Chomsky's "Holocaust" series or something like "Roots".....ambitious, historically moving ideas wrapped behind a fairly safe and recognizable facade. I suppose "Twin Peaks" in the early 90's was the greatest leap for American production and then followed by HBO's trailblazing one-two punch of "The Wire" and "The Sopranos". Thirty years later.....

ok so this from the movies

yeah, 90s tv was a huge leap i think. maybe due to cultural/generational changes?

twin peaks sure, at least the first season. but also seinfeld. also of course the simpsons which as i recall used to be deemed dangerous for children, or something. and lesser things that are now forgotten that brought both formal + content changes to tv. there was a thing called northern exposure that brought a bit of magical realism to the screen. then an even more forgotten thing now, parker lewis something something, which was a bit shit but i think it had a postmodern approach to tv-- i can't remember much of what happened (except that everyone was white, lol) but i do recall being impressed by the way stories were told. i wish i could find it/rewatch it/ think about it. then there was stuff on mtv like liquid television and was it cartoon sushi? oh yeah. that was the testing ground for today's adult animation. shit like aeon flux was insane at the time. this so-called golden age of american tv was brewing for a long time before it made it big.

[Rob Instigator]

Parker Lewis Cant Lose was indeed innovative and funny. It took the whole Ferris Bueller thing to new hieghts of absurdity. I love absurd comedies.

Night Court, for the middle 4-5 years of it's run, was so fucking funny and surreal.

Sledgehammer, a parody of the dirty harry/tough cop trope from 70's hollywood, was one of our faves. so funny, so ridiculously violent.

The true golden age of USA TV began with Sopranos (for storytelling and quality of presentation) and Star Trek DS9, season 4,5,6. DS9chose to become serialized, continuous storytelling instead of endless one-shot stories were the cast was essentially given a blank slate after every episode. on DS9 all the characters changed/grew and events that ocurred had to be dealt with in all the subsequent episodes. This ruined the series for sindication, since in sindication the goal is to sell packets of 20 episodes to various station which would re-0air the same ones over and over and over again, until they bought a new packet of twenty episodes.
This is why I love DS9 more than TNG. Those two shows I think helped the TV producers understand that their audience was far more sophisticated than they were given credit for, and that the old "rules" of TV had become antiquated.

[Rob Instigator]

It also helped that US TV producers realized that they did not have to do the standard 28-32 eps for hour long dramas and 30-40 eps for half hour sitcoms. The quality goes down when so many episodes are required.

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

there's a lot of good stuff out there. right now i'm watching "arn, the knight templar"

is that overly religious? Crusades, and all that........

[ilduclo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I need to watch this current season of better call saul

just watched the final episode, it's been a good season on there.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by ilduclo

is that overly religious? Crusades, and all that........

not really-- not so far anyway. i mean there are monasteries and shit but also a lot of swordplay among post-vikings ha ha

reminds me a bit about the pillars of the earth. you've seen? (similar era, though not the same subject). pillars of the earth featured a very corrupt bishop played by "swengin" from deadwood ha ha ha.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Parker Lewis Cant Lose was indeed innovative and funny. It took the whole Ferris Bueller thing to new hieghts of absurdity. I love absurd comedies.

yeah. it was the style of it all though that blew my mind. it totally broke the rules of what tv was back then as i recall. i'm suprised that it's not remembered now as some sort of pioneering shit. maybe people took it for granted.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I need to watch this current season of better call saul

Hell yes you do. It's a slow-burner of a season, but the performances are just excellent, and it's starting to pick up big time.

[Severian]

Parker Lewis! I remember that guy. Shit, that's one of those shows I can never remember the name of unless someone says it. Hah. Good stuff.

I'm an episode and a half into American Gods, and, while some of the blood is a bit (lot) much, bordering on ridiculous, I'm enjoying this take on the book I loved so much. I feel like seeing it on screen might expose some of Gaiman's shortcomings as a dialogue writer, but I'll withhold judgment.

Great performances, nice weird atmosphere. I had this thing planned out in my head 10 years ago and it was nothing like this (Terry Gilliam directed, and it was Abglocentric, with Clive Owen as Shadow, what's his name with the beard from Jurassic Park as Wednesday), but so far this is working for me. I'm liking Anansi a lot.

[Rob Instigator]

One thing to remember is that American Gods was Gaiman's first novel. he had co-written Good Omens with Terry Pratchett, who helped Gaiman put his ideas into novel form as opposed to comic book script form.

The TV adaptation might be confusing to audiences who have not read the book, or do not have any exposure to mythological history and comparative religion, They also really make shadow's dead wife get more and more rotten! so grossssss. I think it may be the first TV show that deals with and shows sexuality in a organic and human manner, as opposed to using sexual attraction as a simple plot device.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

One thing to remember is that American Gods was Gaiman's first novel. he had co-written Good Omens with Terry Pratchett, who helped Gaiman put his ideas into novel form as opposed to comic book script form.

The TV adaptation might be confusing to audiences who have not read the book, or do not have any exposure to mythological history and comparative religion, They also really make shadow's dead wife get more and more rotten! so grossssss. I think it may be the first TV show that deals with and shows sexuality in a organic and human manner, as opposed to using sexual attraction as a simple plot device.

Well, I'm certainly familiar with the book. It's one of only a handful of books that I've read more than once. I did not, however, realize that it came out before Neverwhere. I guess I never really thought about the chronology of his novels. Except I know that Norse Mythology (blech) is he most recent, and before that it was Ocean at the End of the Lane (great!), and before that it was Anansi Boys (which I honestly didn't care for much).

[tw2113]

I was never old enough to watch at the time, but I managed to find both Northern Exposure and Parker Lewis Can't Lose. Loved both of them.


Parker was early FOX and from when they had nothing to lose, pun intended, by putting out a bit of a ridiculous show like that.

[Rob Instigator]

true.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by tw2113

I was never old enough to watch at the time, but I managed to find both Northern Exposure and Parker Lewis Can't Lose. Loved both of them.


Parker was early FOX and from when they had nothing to lose, pun intended, by putting out a bit of a ridiculous show like that.

I'm not sure I was old enough either now that I think about it. When was that show on?

I distinctly remember the initial run of Twin Peaks even though I was not, ostensibly, allowed to watch it (this is before my parents said fuck it and realized I was more fun to be around when I could talk to them about stuff). Anyway, Parker can't be much older than TP, can it?

I remember Northern Exposure (AKA, Twin Peaks' the nice demon-free rom com doppelgänger) too. But I think I only remember Parker Lewis in re-runs on USA circa 1995.

[Severian]

Rob, did you see my post about Watchmen being in development for a Damon Lindelof HBO show? I've seen several more articles to back up this story at this point. I think it's a cracking good idea.

[Rob Instigator]

I did and looked up some info. It could be very cool!!!!!

[ilduclo]

guilty pleasure : Animal Kingdom. Really reminds me of some of the dildos I knew when I was down in that part of Cal.

[tw2113]

Originally Posted by Severian

I'm not sure I was old enough either now that I think about it. When was that show on?

I distinctly remember the initial run of Twin Peaks even though I was not, ostensibly, allowed to watch it (this is before my parents said fuck it and realized I was more fun to be around when I could talk to them about stuff). Anyway, Parker can't be much older than TP, can it?

I remember Northern Exposure (AKA, Twin Peaks' the nice demon-free rom com doppelgänger) too. But I think I only remember Parker Lewis in re-runs on USA circa 1995.

Parker Lewis was 90-93
Northern Exposure was 90-95


I would have been 12 by 1995, and still mostly watching Nickelodeon.


Fun fact, I know there's one scene somewhere in Northern Exposure that very specifically references Twin Peaks, including the waterfall and the finger snapping background music. So there was some crossover.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by tw2113

Parker Lewis was 90-93
Northern Exposure was 90-95

I would have been 12 by 1995, and still mostly watching Nickelodeon.

Ok, so they were all on at the same time, at least for a while. I must have just not been watching the right networks. I don't know what station Parker Lewis was on, but I didn't have cable of any kind until around '97-'98.

We're about the same age then. I was largely off Nickelodeon by 1995, but I remember being super into the big three original Nick cartoons (Doug, Rugrats, Ren & Stimpy) when they first premiered in like 1990-91. I would watch the weekly episode and then watch as it re-ran every night until the next one. Man that was bad programming on Nick's part, but I liked it.

Originally Posted by tw2113

Fun fact, I know there's one scene somewhere in Northern Exposure that very specifically references Twin Peaks, including the waterfall and the finger snapping background music. So there was some crossover.

Hmm. I don't remember this but I did always feel like TP and NE were the "evil" and "good" versions of each other, respectively. I need to re-watch NE. I always found that show very soothing and pleasant. Twin Peaks haunted my dreams when I did get around to watching a minute or two with my dad (who was obsessed) during the original run. I had nightmares about Laura Palmer's corpse for years until I finally watched the show in full at an older age. It was less frightening and 100% more hilarious from a more mature perspective.

[tw2113]

I need to do a Northern Exposure rewatch as well. More things to add to my huge queue

[tw2113]

GLOW, on Netflix, thanks to a long history of loving prowrestling.