[Rob Instigator]

Originally Posted by louder

this is true. especially since Flavor Flav said that shit about "it's not hip-hop if you can't breakdance to it", now they're seen as a joke among young people.

I think PE are m,ore ignored or unknown than seen as a joke. Hip Hop was originally supposed to be the culture that embraces DJ-ing, MC-ing, breakdancing/b-boys and b-girls, graffitti and all the things that go with the urban black, american experience. Now the term "Hip Hop" is a marketing ploy just like "grunge" or "alternative" used as shorthand for "black people's music." Even R&B artists want to be called Hip Hop, even though they are anything but.

[Severian]

In the kid's defense, I was wearing a sweater vest from Banana Republic, and I've always been slim, bordering on petite.

But I swear, whenever someone makes a comment like this about my appearance, part of me always wants to say something extremely regrettable about how "hardcore" I was in my youth. Soooo glad I've never actually said anything like that, though. *shivers*

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

might listen to Twelve Reasons Pt. 2 soone or later, but ehh i'm more interested in Supreme Clientele 2 if that's still a thing.

very excited about the new Future though..

Sorry, but did you just "ehh" the new Ghostface Killah album?! You, louder?

What's happening to us?!?!

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Sorry, but did you just "ehh" the new Ghostface Killah album?! You, louder?

What's happening to us?!?!

last Ghost album that really blew me away was Fishscale. i'm sorry but Future is so amazing right now. his recent tapes and features have been nothing but heat.

[louder]

i have Vince, Kendrick and Miguel on top of everything right now. i must say that Summertime's 1st disc is clearly better than the 2nd, it's pretty close though. at the moment, "Lemme Know" is my fav song; i love the chemistry between Vince and Jhene on this one, and the production reminds me of some prime Missy Elliott/Timbo shit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

last Ghost album that really blew me away was Fishscale. i'm sorry but Future is so amazing right now. his recent tapes and features have been nothing but heat.

Hmm. I guess I thought 12RTD was a bigger hit in the cafe. Seems to me like it was huge topic of discussion for weeks after its release.

But I know opinions change. I once preferred it to Fishscale, but that album never stops sounding fresh to me. It's probably my favorite record of his after Supreme Clientele, though Ironman is way up there too.

Ill admit, 12 Reasons... hasn't aged that well for me, despite being very obviously a great record. It's just too narrow. I genuinely thought that 36 Seasons was a more exciting record instrumentally. But I'm tiring of the comic book thing as I mentioned earlier. I felt like 36 Seasons had a more universally appealing sound, even though the lyrics were just as limited as those on 12 Reasons due to the storyline, which is not actually the thing I care about when it comes to these albums...

"Love Don't Live Here No More" for instance, felt like kind of a classic soulful hip hop song, and it reminded me of SC and Fishscale. But the 12 Reasons albums exist in their own little sub-sub-genre... Their own microverse. You can't just throw those albums on whenever. That's why I'm eager for Ghostface to get back to pumping out some good old fashioned bangers.

Nothing against either 12 Reasons or 12 Reasons II, nor 36 Seasons... I just think he's played with that idea enough for one decade. Let's get back to basics, and hear some songs about pussy and coke and Kung fu

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

i have Vince, Kendrick and Miguel on top of everything right now. i must say that Summertime's 1st disc is clearly better than the 2nd, it's pretty close though. at the moment, "Lemme Know" is my fav song; i love the chemistry between Vince and Jhene on this one, and the production reminds me of some prime Missy Elliott/Timbo shit.

I haven't heard the new Miguel.
Actually I'm not sure I've ever heard Miguel apart from features on other peoples' songs. I'm a pretty hard critic of "neo-soul" or "alt r&ab" or whatever. I mean I love (LOVE) D'Angelo, right? And I love Frank Ocean almost as much. But I haven't explored the genre that much.

I really love The-Dream. At least, I really love Love King. That's the only album of his I have, but it's dope as fuck. And of course I love The Weeknd, and some others on the periphery of the genre.

But I'm still pretty skeptical of most R&B, and I know that I hate Chris Brown's corny ass, and Usher's corny ass.

I see Miguel's album covers and I think, Man I know I'm not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but I'm pretty sure this guy's fucking ridiculous.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

I haven't heard the new Miguel.
Actually I'm not sure I've ever heard Miguel apart from features on other peoples' songs. I'm a pretty hard critic of "neo-soul" or "alt r&ab" or whatever. I mean I love (LOVE) D'Angelo, right? And I love Frank Ocean almost as much. But I haven't explored the genre that much.

I really love The-Dream. At least, I really love Love King. That's the only album of his I have, but it's dope as fuck. And of course I love The Weeknd, and some others on the periphery of the genre.

But I'm still pretty skeptical of most R&B, and I know that I hate Chris Brown's corny ass, and Usher's corny ass.

I see Miguel's album covers and I think, Man I know I'm not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but I'm pretty sure this guy's fucking ridiculous.

no, that cover art is ridiculous i agree. but Miguel is very talented, definitely on Frank's level. they're both still babies compared to Prince, D'Angelo, Maxwell, Erykah, etc.. but if they keep it up (which they definitely will, i can't imagine them making a bad album. these guys understand music) eventually they'll get there.

[louder]

speaking of ridiculousness, The Weeknd's new album title is "Beauty Behind the Madness", which is nearly as ridiculous as his previous one "Kiss Land". i like all the singles though so i'm expecting a good album.

[noisereductions]

yeah Weeknd's got such a crazy good string of singles going right now. I think the album's gonna be dope.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

no, that cover art is ridiculous i agree. but Miguel is very talented, definitely on Frank's level. they're both still babies compared to Prince, D'Angelo, Maxwell, Erykah, etc.. but if they keep it up (which they definitely will, i can't imagine them making a bad album. these guys understand music) eventually they'll get there.

Oh yeah how did I forget Erykah Badu?! Shit. I never got into Maxwell, but I agree that D'Angelo is the absolute shit.

Maybe I'll listen to the new Miguel on Spotify or something.

[louder]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

yeah Weeknd's got such a crazy good string of singles going right now. I think the album's gonna be dope.

it's going to be a big album for sure. lately Quincy Jones even came to see him at one of his shows:

https://twitter.com/theweeknd/status/610169571987714048

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by louder

this is true. especially since Flavor Flav said that shit about "it's not hip-hop if you can't breakdance to it", now they're seen as a joke among young people.

old white rockers (as evidenced in this thread) still see them as the pinnacle of hip-hop though, hehe.

Well if there's anything more ridiculous than what Flavor Flav says it's the idea that anyone takes anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. Flavor Flav has been a clown since day one, and that's why everyone loved him.

Secondly, re: PE I would expect it's more than just old white rockers. The hiphop community held It Takes a Nation of Millions to be the de facto greatest rap record ever for about 15 years. From as far back as I can remember as a hiphop fan (i.e. 1990) the overriding consensus was that It Takes a Nation was the set in stone, unquestioned pinnacle of the genre, bar none. If you picked up a hiphop magazine that had an alltime best of list It Takes a Nation was ALWAYS the number one album, and Rakim was ALWAYS the number one rapper.
TBH I found it a little boring that there was such conservatism at play, not least because I've always preferred Fear of a Black Planet. Some time in the early/mid 2000s opinions re: ITaNoM became less homogenous I think.
So it's not just old white rockers, as much as older everyone. Besides I think if you went to old white rockers you're more likely to find they like Cypress Hill or the Beastie Boys than PE.

[Severian]

Louder:
Re- your ehhing of 12 Reasons to Die II...

I know I've given you lighthearted shit in the past when you change your opinion on things, and I have to confess: I think I'm secretly scared that one of these days you're going to be like, "Ehh, I'm kinda over Kanye."



I'm not sure how I'd react to that, since you and NR were so instrumental in finally getting me into Ye in earnest.

Please promise me you'll never do that. I might not be able to handle it. Lol! No seriously...

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Louder:
Re- your ehhing of 12 Reasons to Die II...

I know I've given you lighthearted shit in the past when you change your opinion on things, and I have to confess: I think I'm secretly scared that one of these days you're going to be like, "Ehh, I'm kinda over Kanye."



I'm not sure how I'd react to that, since you and NR were so instrumental in finally getting me into Ye in earnest.

Please promise me you'll never do that. I might not be able to handle it. Lol! No seriously...

huh, i haven't changed my opinion on Ghost though. i still love Ironman, Supreme Clientele, The Pretty Toney Album and Fishscale. his new stuff just don't really appeal to me.

[noisereductions]

My favorite PE album is Apocalype 91, but the first five albums are a crazy run of greatness.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by louder

huh, i haven't changed my opinion on Ghost though. i still love Ironman, Supreme Clientele, The Pretty Toney Album and Fishscale. his new stuff just don't really appeal to me.

Seriously? I could swear that all three of us hailed 12 Reasons as his best solo effort since Fishscale, and that at least someone said it was the best since Supreme Clientele. Probably me.

Anyway, no harm done. I still think it was one of the best albums of 2013, in any genre. It was in my top 10 or 11 at the end of the year.

But I feel you. I love Supreme Clientele, Pretty Toney, Ironman, etc. as well.

[noisereductions]

not to be a dick, but I like Twelve Reasons more than Fishscale. I think that album is a good. A solid 4/5. But I think it's overrated. I thought Pretty Tony was better honestly. I remember running out to buy Fish the day it was released and being letdown in a weird way. There's nothing BAD about it. But. I don't know. Some amazing tracks. "Shaky Dog" is a great example. "Be Easy" too. But I mean... I don't know. I hoped the DOOM productions would be new. Instead they were recycled herbs. Gave it a mixtape feel to me somehow.

Pretty Tony was better. Ironman was better. SC was probably better. That's another one that I feel is overhyped though. I mean, pull my rap card if you want, I think Ironman is better than SC.

SC is probably weirder. And closer to explaining why Ghost is so awesome. But Ironman felt more unified to me.

[noisereductions]

louder/sev, if you guys are into Thundercat at all you should watch the vid I posted in the 2015 jazz thread. That dude is unreal.

[louder]

Originally Posted by Severian

Seriously? I could swear that all three of us hailed 12 Reasons as his best solo effort since Fishscale, and that at least someone said it was the best since Supreme Clientele. Probably me.

Anyway, no harm done. I still think it was one of the best albums of 2013, in any genre. It was in my top 10 or 11 at the end of the year.

But I feel you. I love Supreme Clientele, Pretty Toney, Ironman, etc. as well.

could be.

but it wasn't even in my top albums of that year.

Originally Posted by noisereductions

not to be a dick, but I like Twelve Reasons more than Fishscale. I think that album is a good. A solid 4/5. But I think it's overrated. I thought Pretty Tony was better honestly. I remember running out to buy Fish the day it was released and being letdown in a weird way. There's nothing BAD about it. But. I don't know. Some amazing tracks. "Shaky Dog" is a great example. "Be Easy" too. But I mean... I don't know. I hoped the DOOM productions would be new. Instead they were recycled herbs. Gave it a mixtape feel to me somehow.

Pretty Tony was better. Ironman was better. SC was probably better. That's another one that I feel is overhyped though. I mean, pull my rap card if you want, I think Ironman is better than SC.

SC is probably weirder. And closer to explaining why Ghost is so awesome. But Ironman felt more unified to me.

recycled Dilla beats too, hmmm..

still prefer it over 12 Reasons though.