[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

@severian - i saw unfamiliar words and unfocused my eyes. shhh, man. im still in the first season of the reboot-- with dickens, and the farty aliens, and that museum in nevada with donald trump in it and the dad-- yeah the last i saw was the dad. now shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

All I did was name good episodes. "No spoilers." Bahahaha. You don't get that yet, but you will.

Anyway, DUDE you're in the SHITTEST part of the entire reboot. Absolute shittest. FORWARD!!!

Honestly you could probably do just fine skipping to the final episode of the first season. I think it's a two-parter. Then... then things start to get good.

And then they get GREAT.

And then they got so good that I said "Wow! Fuck Star Wars AND Star Trek, I'm a fucking Doctor Who guy!!!" Serious shit man. Seriously good shit.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by LifeDistortion

I just laugh at anybody in fandoms that gets pissy about introducing heroines into sci-fi worlds. Same happened with Rey in Star Wars. Cause you can create a sci-fi universe that promotes infinite possibilities and alien species, but make it focused on a female and a percentage of vocal fans will cry over them ruining a great universe by incorporating a female hero into it.

Agreed. Totally. But I think The Doctor thing is just a wee bit different. Anyone who didn't want to see A Force Awakens because one of the main characters was a female (nothing new--- one was always a female!) is just a dick and has absolutely no reason for being even the slightest bit put off.

This Doctor thing might feel to some like having their beloved character erased. It's changing the sex, probably as a trial run for a future female Bond. That might just feel strange to some people, and it might have nothing to do with sexism or anything like that. Y'know? Maybe some of them are chicks who think the Doctor is totally hot! Maybe some of them are women who enjoy having a totally benevolent, asexual, god-like male figure who will never leer and has zero chance of being a predatory fuck. Y'know? I know I like that about the Doctor. In an age of Game of Thrones where rape is fucking entertainment... in the age of Trump-pussy-grabbery, it's very nice to have a character that actually provides an ideal for men to strive for.

I don't have a goddamn thing against women in SF, or a woman Doctor, though... I'm curious as fuck, and I say bring it on! But if I didn't feel that way, I'm not sure it would necessarily mean I'm a sexist. A Star Wars fan boycotting Star Wars because of a new character who is a female fucking Jedi? That's just insanely sexist and stupid. I don't think they're really comparable, but either way, I'm not saying anyone should actually have a problem with this.

I'm a good guy!

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

All I did

laaaa laaa laaa laaa im not listening

or

MAN. SHUT UP.

no advanced notices welcome. if i need help i'll ask.

*but i'm not asking*

all is good. let me be.

kindly cease & desist

I'M WATCHING

[LifeDistortion]

They're destroying all your sci-fi universes. The Doctor is a woman, The newest badass Jedi is a woman, the new Star Trek captain is a woman. Cause some literally just want people to recreate the thing they've loved for decades exactly how it looked back in the 60's/70's. Nothing can change. Doctor Who itself is all about change, its literally about an alien that travels time and space, never staying in the same place. Always on the move.

[ilduclo]

Letterkenny 3. Pitter patter!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkGXVkXF-p8

[LifeDistortion]

Not sure about your argument Severian, can a female Doctor not be asexual? And being asexual doesn't equate not being romantic. Matt Smith's Doctor was all about how he was destined to be with River Song. I remember some viewers complaining when Clara kissed Matt Smith's Doctor. People are going to like various aspects of a series, but when you've been around for 5 decades I think its unrealistic to expect the new people taking over that series aren't allowed the freedom to play around and do things differently. You or I may not like the changes, but to act like they ruined your thing. Its not your thing, its their thing. You can enjoy it, you can criticize it, but to act like they aren't allowed to change something cause its not how the previous people who had the control didn't do that you're not allowing them to put their own vision, you just want them to duplicate someone else's vision.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by LifeDistortion

Not sure about your argument Severian, can a female Doctor not be asexual? And being asexual doesn't equate not being romantic. Matt Smith's Doctor was all about how he was destined to be with River Song. I remember some viewers complaining when Clara kissed Matt Smith's Doctor. People are going to like various aspects of a series, but when you've been around for 5 decades I think its unrealistic to expect the new people taking over that series aren't allowed the freedom to play around and do things differently. You or I may not like the changes, but to act like they ruined your thing. Its not your thing, its their thing. You can enjoy it, you can criticize it, but to act like they aren't allowed to change something cause its not how the previous people who had the control didn't do that you're not allowing them to put their own vision, you just want them to duplicate someone else's vision.

Well, my idea I guess was that men are pretty shitty, and there are a lot of nasty men in power, so the fantasy of a make character who is represents the opposite of the nasty Putins and Trumps might be a nice thing for some. I dunno. Just thinking.

Don't get me wrong buddy. I welcome a female Doctor. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Like you said, it's not my show, so it wouldn't matter if I didn't like it. Also, I'm actually surprised more people didn't see this coming, what with River and Missy. It took me by surprise, but I'm all for it. Don't misunderstand, and think I have any issue with this at all.

I was just saying it might be a little different than the Rey thing. I didn't even know there WAS a Rey thing like the Rey thing you're talking about. I didn't know there was any significant portion of SW fandom that was against having a woman in a main role. That's just fucked up. And it was a new character. So... what's there to be upset about? With the Doctor, you have a not new character. Opposite of new, even though the Doctor is technically new every few years. It's bound to ruffle some feathers, and I'm just saying maybe that's not ALL due to sexism. Not going to see A Force Awakens because a woman is among the new characters? I don't even get that, and it's pure sexism.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

laaaa laaa laaa laaa im not listening

or

MAN. SHUT UP.

Ugh! Fine. I didn't give any freakin' spoilers.
But yeah ok whatever

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Severian

Ugh! Fine. I didn't give any freakin' spoilers.
But yeah ok whatever

i wouldn't mind talking about the ones i've already seen

AS LONG AS FUTURE EPISODES ARE NOT BROUGHT TO BEAR INTO THE CONVERSATION

like "oh, wait for season X when..."

jayzus

even titles spoil it for me. i hate titles.

BUT ANYWAY. you're right that it starts clunky. the attack of the mannequins was a pretty weak starter for any kind of show.

now just don't tell me what happens next. "it gets better" suffices. i'll get to all of it in due time.

and now i really wanna watch the old, old, old episodes. im gonna try to line them up somehow. even if they're a bit shit with the empty sets.

btw i like how in the new doctor, it still looks low-budget. like, sherlock looks glossy as fuck. but dr. who, while updated for the century, still looks cheaply made. at least this season. and that's a good thing i think. keeps the attention on the "mental" part. i mean the abstract stuff.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i wouldn't mind talking about the ones i've already seen

AS LONG AS FUTURE EPISODES ARE NOT BROUGHT TO BEAR INTO THE CONVERSATION

like "oh, wait for season X when..."

jayzus

even titles spoil it for me. i hate titles.

BUT ANYWAY. you're right that it starts clunky. the attack of the mannequins was a pretty weak starter for any kind of show.

now just don't tell me what happens next. "it gets better" suffices. i'll get to all of it in due time.

and now i really wanna watch the old, old, old episodes. im gonna try to line them up somehow. even if they're a bit shit with the empty sets.

btw i like how in the new doctor, it still looks low-budget. like, sherlock looks glossy as fuck. but dr. who, while updated for the century, still looks cheaply made. at least this season. and that's a good thing i think. keeps the attention on the "mental" part. i mean the abstract stuff.

I was just about to message you and apologize for blah. Not gonna now cuz we seem cool.

Anyway, OK. NO TALK ABOUT FUTURE EPISODES. It gets better. PEORIOD.

I'm glad you like it well enough. I know the episode you're on. Good'un. Mannequins was not so much in my opinion.

[!@#$%!]

yeah man nothing to it, dont' worry about it

so on the same line i just recommend that you stick to buffy a bit and get past the 90sness and into awesomeness

[LifeDistortion]

I just think its silly that there are still people who are sci-fi fans and they get bent out of shape over heroines being the focus of the story as if we didn't grow up watching Ellen Ripley, and Agent Scully, and Buffy, and Max (Dark Angel). How is casting a female lead as the hero of sci-fi series still a controversial topic?

[Rob Instigator]

many sci fi and fantasy fans are DORKS, like GRADE-A, cannot talk to a girl, cannot even be in the same room as a cute girl for fear of shitting their own pants, and they HATE that women have that power over them so they HATE when strong awesome women are brought into their magical make believe fandom worlds. maybe?

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by LifeDistortion

I just think its silly that there are still people who are sci-fi fans and they get bent out of shape over heroines being the focus of the story as if we didn't grow up watching Ellen Ripley, and Agent Scully, and Buffy, and Max (Dark Angel). How is casting a female lead as the hero of sci-fi series still a controversial topic?

well of course it's silly.

there's also... xena, lara croft, wonder woman, nikita... even cagney and lacey for fucks sakes

but do you mean in the general population or here in this board?

ETA: AEON FLUX. how could i forget??

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by Severian

This Doctor thing might feel to some like having their beloved character erased. It's changing the sex, probably as a trial run for a future female Bond. That might just feel strange to some people, and it might have nothing to do with sexism or anything like that. Y'know?
I don't have a goddamn thing against women in SF, or a woman Doctor, though... I'm curious as fuck, and I say bring it on!

I feel the same but I think this drive for a female Doctor needs to be careful what it wishes for. The best Doctors have usually been quite bumbling, and ultimately dependent on the bravery and pragmatism of their (traditionally female) assistant. (The Tom Baker and Leela team-up was a perfect example of that.) Reversing that gender dynamic (a bumbling female doctor having to rely on the street-smarts of her (we assume) male assistant) could end up being more offensive to women than the traditional set up. And if the writers try to address that by turning the new doctor into more of an all-powerful action-woman type (basically Lailla with a boffin brain) then the whole dynamic between her and her assistant will need a significant rethink - and, given how dependent the series is on that relationship, do they really want to start tinkering with it?

[Rob Instigator]

so much hubbub over a deadly dull tv show.....

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The best Doctors have usually been quite bumbling, and ultimately dependent on the bravery and pragmatism of their (traditionally female) assistant.

slightly unrelated, but what do you think are good years/seasons of OLD dr. whos? i really really really wanna catch some old ones.

they used to have them on PBS back in the day (that's "public" tv) and i spotted a few but i was never able to get any sort of continuity or anything.

the thing is the show goes back to the dawn of time and not everything is available on disc but i'd like to try finding something if you have suggestions.

i almost tried doing this some years ago but ended up not doing it. this might be a good time to retry.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

yeah man nothing to it, dont' worry about it

so on the same line i just recommend that you stick to buffy a bit and get past the 90sness and into awesomeness

Will do. Might have to forge ahead a bit though, then double back once it grip me. I've had luck with that approach in the past.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

I feel the same but I think this drive for a female Doctor needs to be careful what it wishes for. The best Doctors have usually been quite bumbling, and ultimately dependent on the bravery and pragmatism of their (traditionally female) assistant. (The Tom Baker and Lailla team-up was a perfect example of that.) Reversing that gender dynamic (a bumbling female doctor having to rely on the street-smarts of her (we assume) male assistant) could end up being more offensive to women than the traditional set up. And if the writers try to address that by turning the new doctor into more of an all-powerful action-woman type (basically Lailla with a boffin brain) then the whole dynamic between her and her assistant will need a significant rethink - and, given how dependent the series is on that relationship, do they really want to start tinkering with it?

Hmm... I see what you mean. I do I do.

I thought about the pisisbibility of a female doctor with a female sidekick. Then I thought about the possibility of a female doctor with a sort of sexless alien sidekick. That could work. But I think the Doctor has been awesome when non-bumbling. My favorites in fact are Tennant (who, ok, was pretty goddamn bumbling, but always tempered that with relentless cool), and Matt Smith (who was almost autistic, but not exactly bumbling, and surprisingly forceful and cocksure when he got riled up) and I love Baker, but Peter Capaldi has a lot in common with Baker, and Peter Capaldi's doctor is probably the most arrogant and brash. So there's plenty of room to fiddle with the Doctor's personality, and make this work.

But the sidekick thing, I dunno. You're right. That could be a one-step-forward-two-steps-back kind of thing. And I don't rightly know what to think right now. As long as they don't make it a female Doctor with a female sidekick a la Rose, for whom things get ever so slightly saucy. That would be just too much, and would push me past my limit. I have some issues with the homosexual tokenism that is now pretty common on TV. Often, these token characters just reinforce really crap stereotypes despite their purported intent of shattering glass ceilings.

(If you've seen the mandated 1 gay/1 lesbian per show hijinx of shows like Arrow, Flash, Supergiel and Legends of Tomorrow, you'll know what I mean. Those gay caricatures in capes do nothing to leave stereotypes behind.)

Blah!

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

so much hubbub over a deadly dull tv show.....

Shut your stupid fuck!