[stu666]

Originally Posted by noisereductions

that sucks!

Midheaven never even responded to my email about why it shipped a week later than listed. Pfft. Guess I won't be dealing with them anymore.

I'll not be dealing with Midheaven again either. After they sent me the cd (3 weeks after the release) instead of the vinyl that I ordered (it even said vinyl on the invoice they included in the package). I emailed them explaing what had happened and I still haven't heard back.

[stu666]

some good news! I posted a comment on Midheaven's facebook page explaining how I was very unhappy with their service and about getting the cd instead of the lp that I paid for and someone just replied saying they will send out an lp to me in priority mail today.

[Chris Lawrence]

I finally picked up the double vinyl, just listening now...probably shouldn't be distracting myself typing about it! But, some quick thoughts I apparently couldn't wait to share...I'm going to blow a well-executed illusion regarding either the sound or the artwork, so don't read if you'd prefer the illusion!

- I finally understand why I couldn't identify what song they're playing on the cover...it's a composite of 2 different photos! S/L/K in one and T in the other. S/L/K probably playing "Nature Scene", T probably playing "I Love Her..". I only noticed because I spotted the tuning written on the back of the guitar next to Kim's leg (GADDCC?? wtf is that?), then saw the exact same guitar next to Thurston. They even edited out the "SONIK LOVE" in tape on the front of the amp (compare on either side of Kim). It looks quite good, but I still had to blow the illusion to justify my confusion. This thread already established photo editing!

- I think it's cool they used pics from 08/27/85 as well, and would love to see even more! The audio of that show is amazing (w/ Lee singing Kat n Hat!).

- I also understand why I was confused about the source of this show - the alternate source mentioned in Aaron's notes is the one I was thinking of, so it would seem the 4-track source has never circulated(?), which is very cool.

- "I Love Her All The Time" extra vocal...huh. It just makes me curious to find out if any other manipulation (audio or visual!) was done on this release. Not for any nefarious purpose, just because I'm a big fucking nerd.

[Chris Lawrence]

a few additional thoughts:

- I love all of the different tours in '85 and this was the first US tour w/ Steve and almost every show I've heard is awesome in its own way. This one is no different! Sure wish Lee sang "Kat n Hat", though...

- I'm embarrassed to discover I've mistitled "Anarchy on St Mary's Place" as "Anarchy at St Mary's Place" for approximately 15 years. (Then again, the bootleggers got the fucking title wrong in the first place!) I still remember a long-gone local shop that rented CDs in the mid 90s, and "Anarchy.." was mixed in among the handful of official SY releases they offered, for whatever reason. It was probably the earliest SY boot I heard, so it's very interesting to hear that show as an official release now.

- coolest download card ever!

[SonicBebs]

Originally Posted by Chris Lawrence

- "I Love Her All The Time" extra vocal...huh. It just makes me curious to find out if any other manipulation (audio or visual!) was done on this release. Not for any nefarious purpose, just because I'm a big fucking nerd.

i'm facinated by this. at first i thought it may be a backing tape they'd used in the show, but then people said that the original boot didn't have the 2 vocal tracks. then i thought it may be Lee, but it's definitely Thurston. wierd.

i wonder if all the songs were actually recorded at ther Smart Bar or if they've done some jiggery-pokery and cut out a bad performance from here and dropepd in a killer performance from another gig?!?

[noisereductions]

great info Chris!!

the cover photoshop thing is really interesting. Nerd.

Originally Posted by SonicBebs

i'm facinated by this. at first i thought it may be a backing tape they'd used in the show, but then people said that the original boot didn't have the 2 vocal tracks. then i thought it may be Lee, but it's definitely Thurston. wierd.

i wonder if all the songs were actually recorded at ther Smart Bar or if they've done some jiggery-pokery and cut out a bad performance from here and dropepd in a killer performance from another gig?!?

I thought of this too... I was wondering if the 2nd vocal is actually from ANOTHER 85 show that they recorded multi-tracked -- and then just threw that vocal on top of this one? Would make more sense archival wise than recording a new vocal a hundred years later wouldn't it?

[Chris Lawrence]

I initially wondered if they'd taken the 2nd verse vocal from the multitrack and mixed it in with the 1st (so both verses would have the same 2 vocals), but they'd have to do a lot of time stretching since the 2nd verse is much slower. It could be from another show, but Aaron's liners suggest that this was the earliest multitrack they had (maybe it's mixed in from a '91 show ).

I think the easiest solution is that it was a recent overdub done in the past few years as this release has been prepared...the fact that they actually played the song last year makes this seem more likely, because otherwise I'd say "why fuck with a 25-year-old recording?". Did the original vocal track sound that bad?

Also, I think if they were gonna transplant songs from other shows, they would've done something about that "Nature Scene" performance.

[hirsute_biped]

Maybe Thurston overdubbed the second vocal (presumptively the in-tune one) back in the eighties, depending on how many tracks were used on the four track master. However, I'm guessing they used all four tracks, which would make overdubbing impossible unless it was bounced to a second four track or something. Right?

Chris, you are probably the only guy in the universe capable of detecting that photo edit based on guitar tunings. Awesome.

[Rob Instigator]

everyone puts in overdubs for live albums. everyone.

some overdub badly played solos, others dub in crowd noise, a la Kiss on ALIVE.

[Dr Chocolate]

i'd hope it's all untouched
being the 4 track is 2 room mics and 2 from the board
but i never woulda thought of it
i haven't even used my download code yet. guess i should tonight

so being i haven't heard it since last friday night
i would guess that wouldn't re-creating new sounds into an old recording be noticable? like, sure. take the 4 track and dump it into an 8 track, and then you got room to work with. but it just seems like it'd be too much work to do. and why bother?

[Rob Instigator]

Is that not what Lee "Scratch" Perry used to do?

nope... just remembered. He would record two tracks, and move them to one track of a 4-track. then he would do so again, and again, and again, sometimes manually creating 16 tracks on a 4 track recorder in his studio.

a man with a musical mission has gotta do what he gots to do.

[noisereductions]

Chris... don't you know someone who could tell us what we want to know about the overdub haha?

[Chris Lawrence]

then what would we talk about?

[Chris Lawrence]

Originally Posted by hirsute_biped

Chris, you are probably the only guy in the universe capable of detecting that photo edit based on guitar tunings. Awesome.

i don't know if i should be ashamed or proud or indifferent, but my eyes went straight to that tuning when i finally sat down to look at the LP cover. some things never change!

these pictures really are great - aside from those awesome 11/08/85 brighton pix that jeff stonehouse took, there are barely any circulating clear live images of the band from..hell, most of the 80s! the clarity of the photos in the smart bar release is stunning, i've already picked out a few other things...

[Dr Chocolate]

you'd think they'd put a picture of the cassette in there as well
just cause, ya know

[noisereductions]

Originally Posted by Chris Lawrence

then what would we talk about?

good point!

[ericengle]

Originally Posted by Chris Lawrence

the clarity of the photos in the smart bar release is stunning, i've already picked out a few other things...

I was just listening to the album and checking out the photos, and I noticed something else about them. Lee and Kim are wearing the same clothes (and bracelets in Kim's case) in both the Smart Bar and Continental Club photos.

Is it a coincidence, or is Cody a digital processing wizard?

[hirsute_biped]

Originally Posted by ericengle

I was just listening to the album and checking out the photos, and I noticed something else about them. Lee and Kim are wearing the same clothes (and bracelets in Kim's case) in both the Smart Bar and Continental Club photos.

Is it a coincidence, or is Cody a digital processing wizard?

You can't fit many changes of clothes in your knapsack when you are touring in a (Econoline?) van with drums, amps, and approximately a hundred guitars.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

everyone puts in overdubs for live albums. everyone.

some overdub badly played solos, others dub in crowd noise, a la Kiss on ALIVE.

I think there are lots of live albums that has no overdubs. I think for example Allman Brothers at Fillmore east and Deep Purple Made In Japan has no overdubs. Also it is said in the Iron Maiden Live After Death "No Overdubs".

[Rob Instigator]

They all say that, but it is a lie.