[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

If Israel gave them the means to get all this stuff for themsleves rather than rationing them i bet they wouldn't be firing rockets at anyone.

lovely feelings that don't stand up to reality. hamas's objective is not peace, it's the destruction of israel. they are in a holy war, and for the muslim brotherhood, "dying the way of allah is our highest hope". (i should have capitalized muslim brotherhood, its a proper noun in this case).

if israel gave hamas the means to get anything, they'd arm themselves to the teeth and would happily commit mass suicide by engaging in total war with their stronger neighbor. as i pointed out earlier in this thread, they are able to smuggle weapons, but not flour, and they care little for the population they currently govern-- sure, they provide social services, but they use them as hostages and human shields. the greenhouses left by the settlers removed by the israeli government, by the way, were looted, demolished, and abandoned.

1) lovely wishes: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...aza/index.html
2) harsh truths: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/
(this happened under abbas though... but still-- and yet the story doesn't end there, as the blockade hampers the profitability of the repaired greenhouses)

yes, perhaps if this problem had been solved 40 years ago hamas wouldn't be there today, perhaps if peace had arrived earlier people in gaza would not have put hamas in power, but hamas is there now and no amount of wishful thinking is going to turn those terrorist fuckers into peaceniks.

[█████████]

this thread got long.

Originally Posted by █████████

the existance of israel doesn't make any sense.
i defend the "one state" solution.

just to clarify things, this doesn't mean i support hamas.

[Daddylikes]

That's like saying that "the existance of humanity doesn't make any sense".

It might be true, but who carez how rational it is?

[Moshe]

wish i had such good english.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

lovely feelings that don't stand up to reality. hamas's objective is not peace, it's the destruction of israel. they are in a holy war, and for the muslim brotherhood, "dying the way of allah is our highest hope". (i should have capitalized muslim brotherhood, its a proper noun in this case).

if israel gave hamas the means to get anything, they'd arm themselves to the teeth and would happily commit mass suicide by engaging in total war with their stronger neighbor. as i pointed out earlier in this thread, they are able to smuggle weapons, but not flour, and they care little for the population they currently govern-- sure, they provide social services, but they use them as hostages and human shields. the greenhouses left by the settlers removed by the israeli government, by the way, were looted, demolished, and abandoned.

1) lovely wishes: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...aza/index.html
2) harsh truths: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/
(this happened under abbas though... but still-- and yet the story doesn't end there, as the blockade hampers the profitability of the repaired greenhouses)

yes, perhaps if this problem had been solved 40 years ago hamas wouldn't be there today, perhaps if peace had arrived earlier people in gaza would not have put hamas in power, but hamas is there now and no amount of wishful thinking is going to turn those terrorist fuckers into peaceniks.

obviously this isn't an issue that can be cleared up over night, but if the people had means to live they would be far less inclined to be radicalized and i think support for hamas would start to dwindle very quickly.

anyway, what you were saying about the smuggling of weapons and flour, if they are incapable of smuggling in food then it makes me wonder why and how they could get a rocket launcher, which makes me suspect the israeli authorities wanted & allowed hamas to attack so they could crush them in return. it wouldn't be the first time the israeli authorities have employed underhanded tactics.

[gmku]

It's all insane.

I pray Obama has the good sense to keep U.S. troops out of this one. I still have 4 years to go on my reserves commitment.

[fugazifan]

i highly doubt that israel needs american troups

[gmku]

So I won't have to put my spy prowess to use?

[blunderbuss]

Past Amercian governments have had a tendency to provide military "help" first and ask questions later though. Whether a country needs their help hasn't always come into it.

[!@#$%!]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

obviously this isn't an issue that can be cleared up over night, but if the people had means to live they would be far less inclined to be radicalized and i think support for hamas would start to dwindle very quickly.

probably, yes. however, with hamas having an interest in keeping things radicalized, it's a difficult knot to undo.

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

anyway, what you were saying about the smuggling of weapons and flour, if they are incapable of smuggling in food then it makes me wonder why and how they could get a rocket launcher, which makes me suspect the israeli authorities wanted & allowed hamas to attack so they could crush them in return. it wouldn't be the first time the israeli authorities have employed underhanded tactics.

to put all blame on israel is a tesla-like argument-- "the conspiracy controls it all and everyone is a puppet of the conspiracy". if anything, ask egypt, where the smuggling tunnels go, but come on, to absolve hamas of any and all responsibility and putting it all on israel is delusional. and dangerous-- those who would revive the caliphate and launch a jihad against the west operate in your own country as well.

 

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by blunderbuss

Past Amercian governments have had a tendency to provide military "help" first and ask questions later though. Whether a country needs their help hasn't always come into it.

yeah but im pretty sure that the IDF is a strong enough army that they dont need americas help

[floatingslowly]

^^^ this may be so, but it doesn't stop them from flying Apache gunships.


_______________________

is "I don't know" an acceptable answer?

I used to be pro-palestinian. this changed when they danced in the streets on 9/11. I do not side with those who take joy from murder.

also, if my next door neighbor started lobbing rockets at me, I couldn't see myself exerting much restraint.

just sayin'.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

probably, yes. however, with hamas having an interest in keeping things radicalized, it's a difficult knot to undo.


to put all blame on israel is a tesla-like argument-- "the conspiracy controls it all and everyone is a puppet of the conspiracy". if anything, ask egypt, where the smuggling tunnels go, but come on, to absolve hamas of any and all responsibility and putting it all on israel is delusional. and dangerous-- those who would revive the caliphate and launch a jihad against the west operate in your own country as well.

 

i'm not placing the blame entirely with israel, or absolving hamas, after all hamas fired the rockets, but how they manage to smuggle rockets and not food just raised some questions in my mind. obviously hamas are extremists, and dangerous, but at the same time the colonial attitude of the israeli government only serves to encourage hamas, which in turn encourages israel to massacre folks.
it would serve the popultion of palestine a lot better if they had a leader like Ghandi or MLK, but then it's easy for me to say that.

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

^^^ this may be so, but it doesn't stop them from flying Apache gunships.

.

oh well, ya, they take money and equipment, but not soldiers...
i think the halftime standings between israel and palestine in this recent war show that we dont need other armies (what is it like 460-4?), as of yet....

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by fugazifan

yeah but im pretty sure that the IDF is a strong enough army that they dont need americas help

I'm sure that Israel keeps telling themselves that but at the end of the day, the suits are much wiser to reality..

"Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated January 2, 2008. According to this report, the US gave Israel at least $2,500.2 million (that says $2.5 BILLION) in 2007."

with all that money given, Israel can afford to easily have war and eat its cake too, and win a war of attrition, meanwhile the Palestinians starve it out in war and being under siege, while Israelis watch the war they are fighting next door on television, virtually unaffected, just as Americans watch the nonsense in Iraq on TV, forgetting its real and that their guns and money caused it all to begin with. This is dangerous.

Originally Posted by fugazifan

(what is it like 460-4?), as of yet....

grossly insensitive

[fugazifan]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I'm sure that Israel keeps telling themselves that but at the end of the day, the suits are much wiser to reality..

"Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated January 2, 2008. According to this report, the US gave Israel at least $2,500.2 million (that says $2.5 BILLION) in 2007."

suchfriends your pm box is full so ill answer you here

i never claimed differently. i even wrote in my post that we take money from the US . but i still highly doubt that the US will be sending troups into israel.

[evollove]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

the US gave Israel at least $2,500.2 million (that says $2.5 BILLION) in 2007."

I figured it'd be a lot more. 2.5 billion ain't a lot of money these days.

And, AGAIN, where the fuck are the Arab nations in the region when it comes to aiding the Palistinians?

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

while Israelis watch the war they are fighting next door on television, virtually unaffected,

This comment in based, no doubt, on your penetrating observations made during your extensive stays in Israel.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

i'm not placing the blame entirely with israel, or absolving hamas, after all hamas fired the rockets, but how they manage to smuggle rockets and not food just raised some questions in my mind. obviously hamas are extremists, and dangerous, but at the same time the colonial attitude of the israeli government only serves to encourage hamas, which in turn encourages israel to massacre folks.
it would serve the popultion of palestine a lot better if they had a leader like Ghandi or MLK, but then it's easy for me to say that.

Regarding the questions raised in your mind. The same reason a musician would buy guitar strings rather than a meal, or form a band instead of further schooling. If you truly believe in something, it becomes your only focus.

[DeadDiscoDildo]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I'm sure that Israel keeps telling themselves that but at the end of the day, the suits are much wiser to reality..

"Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated January 2, 2008. According to this report, the US gave Israel at least $2,500.2 million (that says $2.5 BILLION) in 2007."

with all that money given, Israel can afford to easily have war and eat its cake too, and win a war of attrition, meanwhile the Palestinians starve it out in war and being under siege, while Israelis watch the war they are fighting next door on television, virtually unaffected, just as Americans watch the nonsense in Iraq on TV, forgetting its real and that their guns and money caused it all to begin with. This is dangerous.


grossly insensitive

What if it's because they realize this show will have many seasons, guest appearances, and be on every channel. They just want some popcorn.

blah what I'm saying is yeah it's dangerous. But Palestine will never, ever stop. So why not kick back and put yr feet up ya know?

[RdTv]

Originally Posted by evollove

And, AGAIN, where the fuck are the Arab nations in the region when it comes to aiding the Palistinians?

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and others don't want to help modernize an army to see it turn on its master. Apparently Iran is favorable, but fears that the US will turn the lights out all across their country. Someone said it earlier, Palestine will wipe out Israel and then seek to expand their borders, which means a lot of countries who have the means to help them.